Benning vs Gillis

[varano]

Who was worse?

Click to read more...

 

[Nuckles]

GM of the year who almost got us a cup and missed the playoffs once vs. a guy claiming to have assembled a playoff team and on pace to finish in the bottom three for a third straight year. Really tough question.

 

[Dissonance Jr]

If we're going to consolidate this into a single thread and slug it out once and for all, let's at least throw up a poll!

 

[varano]

GM of the year who almost got us a cup and missed the playoffs once vs. a guy claiming to have assembled a playoff team and on pace to finish in the bottom three for three straight years. Really tough question.

Correct me if I'm wrong but werent most of the players that gillis had from the previous regime?

 

[Nuckles]

Correct me if I'm wrong but werent most of the players that gillis had from the previous regime?

A GM isn't judged solely on the players they bring in, but also on who they keep. Look at Benning, he let plenty of good players go for nothing/almost nothing. Gillis and Gilman did a fantastic job keeping the team under the cap as well.

 

[valkynax]

This thread is not entirely needed. What needs to be said has already been said and done a thousand times and over in the management thread.

 

[varano]

A GM isn't judged solely on the players they bring in, but also on who they keep. Look at Benning, he let plenty of good players go for nothing/almost nothing. Gillis and Gilman did a fantastic job keeping the team under the cap as well.

I still appreciate the fact that they bought malholtra out for his safety... That was a good move.

 

[rune74]

A GM isn't judged solely on the players they bring in, but also on who they keep. Look at Benning, he let plenty of good players go for nothing/almost nothing. Gillis and Gilman did a fantastic job keeping the team under the cap as well.

Especailly getting rid of two over priced goalies...

 

[Huggy43]

Correct me if I'm wrong but werent most of the players that gillis had from the previous regime?

I hate this game because the only GM who doesn't inherit a core group is an expansion GM. IMO what the GM does with his core should be how you base the success. You think that Canucks core goes to the SCF with Nonis in charge? Because I don't...

This has been stated sooo many times on this board & by Gilman on 1040 but one of the main successes of the Gillis era was getting core guys to sign below market deals so they could ice a deep team.

Gillis brought us to a Game 7 of the SCF & was the GM of the most entertaining NHL team I've ever had the pleasure of watch 82 games of. It may be sacrilege to some but I think he's the best GM we ever had & that includes Pat

 

[varano]

I hate this game because the only GM who doesn't inherit a core group is an expansion GM. IMO what the GM does with his core should be how you base the success. You think that Canucks core goes to the SCF with Nonis in charge? Because I don't...

This has been stated sooo many times on this board & by Gilman on 1040 but one of the main successes of the Gillis era was getting core guys to sign below market deals so they could ice a deep team.

Gillis brought us to a Game 7 of the SCF & was the GM of the most entertaining NHL team I've ever had the pleasure of watch 82 games of. It may be sacrilege to some but I think he's the best GM we ever had & that includes Pat

They were an amazing team. Followed them during the cup run.

My point is that he inherited a bunch of really good players and it certainly wasnt a scrub team by any means that he inherited. Some GM's inherit trash.

 

[Jyrki21]

I find it so utterly baffling that this could even be a question.

 

[Huggy43]

They were an amazing team. Followed them during the cup run.

My point is that he inherited a bunch of really good players and it certainly wasnt a scrub team by any means that he inherited. Some GM's inherit trash.

Do you think they go to a cup finals with Nonis in charge?

 

[varano]

Do you think they go to a cup finals with Nonis in charge?

I dont think nonis is a good GM on his own. He's always been a better second banana than he has as THE GUY.

 

[The Optimist]

I hate this game because the only GM who doesn't inherit a core group is an expansion GM. IMO what the GM does with his core should be how you base the success. You think that Canucks core goes to the SCF with Nonis in charge? Because I don't...

This has been stated sooo many times on this board & by Gilman on 1040 but one of the main successes of the Gillis era was getting core guys to sign below market deals so they could ice a deep team.

Gillis brought us to a Game 7 of the SCF & was the GM of the most entertaining NHL team I've ever had the pleasure of watch 82 games of. It may be sacrilege to some but I think he's the best GM we ever had & that includes Pat

In addition to all of this, Gillis was willing to try new things, he was on the cutting edge of some interesting ideas (like advanced stats before they became popular; sleep doctors; importance of the schedule; correlation between intelligence & playing ability; among others). Some of these ideas worked out, others did not.

The anti-Gillis type complain that he wasn't in the old boys club, but I think not being apart of it allowed him to be open to trying things that had never been tested before.

It is why it's so frustrating to go from Gillis to Benning. Benning is the opposite of Gillis in every way, and it's no surprise it's reflective in the standings.

 

[valkynax]

They were an amazing team. Followed them during the cup run.

My point is that he inherited a bunch of really good players and it certainly wasnt a scrub team by any means that he inherited. Some GM's inherit trash.

Your point is meaningless because, like some said already, there's no such thing as a GM who did not in some way shape or form inherent players from previous regime, aside from expansion.

Yzerman arrived after Lightning picked out Stamkos, does that less his success? f*** no.

Saying Gillis has his flaws is perfectly reasonable because it's completely true. Standing there saying Benning is better than Gillis is nothing short of lunacy.

 

[varano]

Your point is meaningless because, like some said already, there's no such thing as a GM who did not in some way shape or form inherent players from previous regime, aside from expansion.

Yzerman arrived after Lightning picked out Stamkos, does that less his success? **** no.

Saying Gillis has his flaws is perfectly reasonable because it's completely true. Standing there saying Benning is better than Gillis is nothing short of lunacy.

If you look back... I havent said one side or the other. Relax.

 

[valkynax]

If you look back... I havent said one side or the other. Relax.

You tried to dilute Gillis' success and posted a question that had an obvious answer and has been discussed to death in the management thread. And I'm telling you that your arguments and logic are erroneous.

This really shouldn't even be a question. Gillis was never perfect, but there's really no comparison between him and the turd GM who's sitting in the chair today.

 

[Dissonance Jr]

It's fair to say that Gillis had more to work with in 2008 than Benning did in 2014.

But Gillis took what he was given, made a bunch of smart signings and trades, and lifted the franchise to the next level — his first three years here were absolutely brilliant. Drafting during his tenure was not great (though we were usually picking lower down because the team was so successful), and he was too slow to recognize this and revamp the scouting staff. Plus he lost the plot a bit from 2012 onward, although the league really screwed us over with Luongo's contract. But on the whole, he got a lot out of what Nonis/Burke had left him.

On the other hand, Benning took over a still-decent team in need of a retool that had some valuable assets on hand (a #6 overall pick, the Kesler trade chip, a bunch of tradable veterans) and turned us into one of the most miserable franchises in the league. The only saving grace is that we now have a few promising prospects (thanks in part to picking so high), although that's offset by the fact that he tends to trade away picks and valuable prospects (Forsling, McCann) for useless crap.

Trajectory matters way more than starting point, and on that score, I don't think it's really close between the two.

 

[RandV]

I dont think nonis is a good GM on his own. He's always been a better second banana than he has as THE GUY.

A Toronto fan I take it? So how big a fan are you of Burke/Nonis in Toronto? Because right now half of Toronto's lineup and most of the key pieces are from Burke & Nonis. If you want to look at it that way then Shanahan/Lou just won a draft lottery and tinkered a little around the edges.

 

[varano]

It's fair to say that Gillis had more to work with in 2008 than Benning did in 2014.

But Gillis took what he was given, made a bunch of smart signings and trades, and lifted the franchise to the next level — his first three years here were absolutely brilliant. Drafting during his tenure was not great (though we were usually picking lower down because the team was so successful), and he was too slow to recognize this and revamp the scouting staff. Plus he lost the plot a bit from 2012 onward, although the league really screwed us over with Luongo's contract. But on the whole, he got a lot out of what Nonis/Burke had left him.

On the other hand, Benning took over a still-decent team in need of a retool that had some valuable assets on hand (a #6 overall pick, the Kesler trade chip, a bunch of tradable veterans) and turned us into one of the most miserable franchises in the league. The only saving grace is that we now have a few promising prospects (thanks in part to picking so high), although that's offset by the fact that he tends to trade away picks and valuable prospects (Forsling, McCann) for useless crap.

Trajectory matters way more than starting point, and on that score, I don't think it's really close between the two.

Well Luongos contract would be pretty good nowadays. I get what he was doing there. I think the way the goalie situation went down was handled poorly though. The poor drafting was also a tough pill to swallow.

Benning had really limited choices with Kesler. He got what he could. Kesler screwed over the team by offering limited trade options.

 

[varano]

A Toronto fan I take it? So how big a fan are you of Burke/Nonis in Toronto? Because right now half of Toronto's lineup and most of the key pieces are from Burke & Nonis. If you want to look at it that way then Shanahan/Lou just won a draft lottery and tinkered a little around the edges.

What on earth are you talking about?
I understand the moves that burke made and to be fair, I have no issues with them. I'm fine with Kessel. I'm find with Kadri, and I'm fine with JVR too. Dion was fine. I'm fine with Rielly too. Nonis made more mistakes than Burke did. He gave dion a ridiculous deal that made him polarized, he signed lupul to a ridiculous deal, traded JML when he was on the ice for the outdoor game warm up (Gutless), and on and on and on.

 

[racerjoe]

Even if you want to play the Gillis inherited a bunch of good players card, they were also a team that missed the playoffs 2 of 3 times previous.

 

[mathonwy]

Well Luongos contract would be pretty good nowadays. I get what he was doing there. I think the way the goalie situation went down was handled poorly though. The poor drafting was also a tough pill to swallow.

Benning had really limited choices with Kesler. He got what he could. Kesler screwed over the team by offering limited trade options.

He could have NOT TRADED FOR Luca Sbisa.

"I said no Bob. I don't want your trash players. This is our top goal scorer we're talking about."

As opposed

"Bob, I insist you throw in a top 4 d-man."

This limited trade options is BS.

Luca actively made our team worse and Jimbo reupped him at the expense of forward veteran center depth.

Those are the facts.

 

[varano]

He could have NOT TRADED FOR Luca Sbisa.

"I said no Bob. I don't want your trash players. This is our top goal scorer we're talking about."

As opposed

"Bob, I insist you throw in a top 4 d-man."

This limited trade options is BS.

Luca actively made our team worse and Jimbo reupped him at the expense of forward veteran center depth.

Those are the facts.

And if Bob said no?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

stats are pretty close. benning's scoring is more impressive due to position but he is also more of a liability at ES.