BENCH Pavelec Thread!

[Mud Turtle]

I don't think Montoya would stop a higher percentage of shots, but I'd be willing to bet Montoya's better puck handling and rebound control would result in fewer shots against...

Yes, exactly! If he faces 26 shots vs 30 shots per game due to his superior rebound control and puck handling skills, that adds up to 320 shots per year, or more than 30 goals. Quite a few extra wins there.

 

[No Name Poster]

Montoya may not be the answer, but Pavelec is NOT the answer.
A part of me hopes we buy him out at the end of the season.
He's just not a winner.

 

[LowEnd88]

I don't think Montoya would stop a higher percentage of shots, but I'd be willing to bet Montoya's better puck handling and rebound control would result in fewer shots against...

True that. I know that our team often has our share of defensive goofs, but I think that a goalie with better rebound control could really help preventing a situation go from bad to worse.

Starting Montoya more often could be a complete disaster too. But given our current situation, we need to at least try something different

 

[Prot]

You should have put a vote in the topic because otherwise all we're going to get here is a lot of really ugly arguing.

This thread should be closed. It will be a grind between people that have pre-determined before opening this thread that 1) Pavelec is garbage, or 2) Pavelec is untouchable.

Everything in between is going to get lost in the shuffle.

I am one of those who falls in the middle. I try to be honest in my support of Pavelec. I actually thought he had a poorer performance against the Capitals (as compared to last night). I also thought Montoya should have started against the Caps for several reasons.

I do think the winning goal that the Pred's got last night was -extremely- difficult to save. As someone who's played goal, facing that shot is damn near like a soccer penalty shot where you have to guess when someone has point blank on you and direction of play changes instantly and you are faced with a 100 mile an hour rip that is pegged for the top corner from that close in.

That was a VERY hard save to make.

I'm just going to say that I find when I am having trouble supporting Pavs it's when he lets the real stinker in. The shot that just seems so.... deflating. It's not the rebound, or redirect, because I know how friggin hard those are to deal with.

At the same time, even in this Pred's game he makes the odd save that you gotta admit are absolutely incredible. He saved one behind his back that was dead to rights going in....

Regardless, I do think the way the team plays defensively in front of him that we could take a 'Grant Fuhr' in his prime with a sack of cocaine with him in the net, and he'd end up looking pretty terrible. We'd end up hating 'Grant' just as much as Pavs in no time at all; I guarantee it.

Pavelec is not the best goalie in the NHL but when I look at the list of what's truly broken on this team, he isn't on my radar yet.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I am pretty ardent defender of Pavelec. I think he has been pretty good so far this season.

I will say one thing though.

He never seems to bail out his teammates on a bad mistake

As soon as the puck bounced on Buff in OT last night I called it out that the preds would score.

He just doesn't seem to have that in his makeup. Its too bad because he seems like such a good reflex goalie and yet when we need him the most those reflexes fail him

 

[JustBeCool]

Looking back at both shutouts from montoya, jets blocked a lot more shots than their opposition. Is there a correlation?

Ottawa game, jets blocked 22 shots while ottawa blocked 7.

New Jersey game, jets blocked 19 shots, NJ blocked 9.

For comparison, last game, jets only blocked 10 while nsh blocked 21

This is what I get out of this:
Jets seem to rely on pav to make the save and play a much looser game while they play a much tighter game defensively with montoya.

In the end I still dont think pav is good enough and would like to see montoya for a change. Maybe it will change the jets mentality defensively?

 

[YWGinYYZ]

I don't think Montoya would stop a higher percentage of shots, but I'd be willing to bet Montoya's better puck handling and rebound control would result in fewer shots against...

Quite possible. My biggest concern with Montoya is his ability to track the puck. Seems to lose it quite often.

This thread should be closed. It will be a grind between people that have pre-determined before opening this thread that 1) Pavelec is garbage, or 2) Pavelec is untouchable.

Everything in between is going to get lost in the shuffle.

I'd argue that this thread is perfect - if more discussion regarding our goaltending happened here, then perhaps other relevant discussion won't get lost in the Pavs discussion that inevitably crops up in every thread. Just MO.

 

[Bartho]

I'd like to see more of Montoya. Chances are it would be nothing but a lateral move and that would probably spark some "call up Pasquale" talk which would be amusing. But hey, maybe he'll play like a stud and be able to challenge for the #1 spot.

 

[Lorenzo1000]

Honestly if Kane and Buff don't give away the puck last night in OT does this thread exist? A one timer from 30 feet away after a give away. I'm not sure you can assign the blame to Pavelec for that goal. There's a lot more wrong with the team defensively that is more concerning than this.

 

[Analyst365]

I'd like to see more winning and if a change in goaltending gets us there then sign me up.

 

[larmex99]

have you ever seen noel create 'competition'? This is a serious question as i cant recall. I honestly think the man doesn't know how. Pavs will be in net until his knees give out.

Competition isn't created IMO. It is the result of an abundance of talent and when we reach that point we will have real competition. For now we have an abundance of players, many of them marginally talented. There are no miracle cures to our shortage of talent and playing our backup goalie as our #1 will not yield the results we want. It will however get our coach fired.......because it is a foolish thing to do IMO.

 

[Rook37]

You should have put a vote in the topic because otherwise all we're going to get here is a lot of really ugly arguing.

This thread should be closed. It will be a grind between people that have pre-determined before opening this thread that 1) Pavelec is garbage, or 2) Pavelec is untouchable.

Everything in between is going to get lost in the shuffle.

I agree with your first part, because I'm kind of interested in how that would play out, but I disagree wholeheartedly with your second. I can see why you don't want to watch that argument go nowhere all over again, but the thing is the pointless "grind" you describe breaks out in every topic in this forum already, on a fairly regular basis.

It just seems like the arguments between those who hate Pavs, those who love him blindly and those who just want him to post an average SV% are going to continue into eternity until he improves or the Jets change the way they handle our goalie; so I'd vastly prefer that we keep this constant argument to one thread rather than continue to hash it out in every single GDT, coaching or player discussion thread. Most of us are by now very familiar with the combination of flashy saves and mediocre SV% and GAA that is Ondrej Pavelec, and where that places him amongst the league's starters. It'd be nice to not have to read through those arguments all over again every time we want to discuss the Jets. Maybe Garret can paste his stats and arguments just one last time and finally be free of his eternal struggle with HFJets and Pavelec

Please, keep this thread open.




and if it's not clear from that, I think we should bench Pavs, if only to rest him more. I definitely think we need a >.905% solution in net, and while it'd be nice if Pavs can get there I don't think we should be holding our breath. Let's see what Montoya can do for us and if it's not enough, try to acquire someone (Khudobin ) to foster some competition for the position.

 

[bigplay41*]

I'm very my guilty for bashing pavelec but seeing how dejected he looked in that post game I feel bad for him. He clearly wants to succeed and if anything i find myself rooting for him now after seeing some emotion in the guy. Threads like this are why some players might not want to play in winnipeg.

 

[Gm0ney]

I'm very my guilty for bashing pavelec but seeing how dejected he looked in that post game I feel bad for him. He clearly wants to succeed and if anything i find myself rooting for him now after seeing some emotion in the guy. Threads like this are why some players might not want to play in winnipeg.

Yeah, I guess if you want to play hockey where no one gives a ****, you won't have to worry about what they're saying on the HFBoards.

 

[surixon]

I'm very my guilty for bashing pavelec but seeing how dejected he looked in that post game I feel. ad for him. He clearly wants to succeed and if anything i find myself rooting for him now after seeing some emotion in the guy. Threads like this are why some players might not want to play in winnipeg.

Threads like this exist for all Canadian teams. Heck some Oiler fans wanted to run Hall out of town a couple of weeks ago. These guys make boatloads of money and and should be able to handle some criticism.

 

[truck]

I'm very my guilty for bashing pavelec but seeing how dejected he looked in that post game I feel bad for him. He clearly wants to succeed and if anything i find myself rooting for him now after seeing some emotion in the guy. Threads like this are why some players might not want to play in winnipeg.

Threads on HF boards have zero to do with players wanting to play in a market.

 

[bigplay41*]

Threads like this exist for all Canadian teams. Heck some Oiler fans wanted to run Hall out of town a couple of weeks ago. These guys make boatloads of money and and should be able to handle some criticism.

Sorry what I meant was just hating on a player in general. Whether its twitter, message boards, news papers.

 

[Grind]

I'm very my guilty for bashing pavelec but seeing how dejected he looked in that post game I feel bad for him. He clearly wants to succeed and if anything i find myself rooting for him now after seeing some emotion in the guy. Threads like this are why some players might not want to play in winnipeg.

Oh please, threads like this exist on every sport forum. Fans hate it when their highly paid players **** the bed.

I've come to the conclusion that the discussion on wether Pav's is good or bad is pretty pointless at this juncture (late to the party, i know).

Anyone who still firmly beleives pav's is currently an average to above average goal tender must subscribe to the following:

1.Does not believe in the merit of sv% as a statistic
2.Does not believe mountains of research that shows team defence has minimal effect on goalie performance
3. Allows visually appealing saves to inflate their worth of the goaltender (this is a illogical, as we don't watch other goaltenders as much as pav so it's impossible to determine whether the amount of said saves [regardless of their actual value] is any higher/better then other average-above average goaltenders)

I cannot agree with these pretenses. With that, there will never be an understanding between myself and those who hold these views as we have different concepts of reality. If you accept these things as truths and are not willing to consider alternatives then there is no point in arguing.

I am not willing to consider these above three points as they are beliefs with no evidence and in fact (in most cases) there is evidence supporting the contrary.



All that being said

I was excited at the start of the year as Pavelec was playing well and I was hopefull it would continue- it hasn't.

I would like to see Monty start more, not because i think Monty's great (though the rebound/puck control arguments that have been made are interesting points i hadn't considered) but because Pavelec has certainly not been good enough to warrant the number of starts he gets. Our backup would literally have to be a a historic .85 or less goal tender to continue giving Pavelec the start ratio he has.

At the end of the day I want this team to win. If Pavelec comes out our next game (and every game there after) like a .916 goalie i would be ecstatic.

Also at the end of the day, unfortunately, i'm realistic and I recognize the likelihood of this happening is extremely low.

In closing, i also really wish we'd picked up khudobin/greiss/anyone with an obvious track record to challenge pav. I also hope we do something to remedy the situation this off season if Pavelec does not improve.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

once again Grind echos my sentiments and much better than I ever could

I should just give him my log-in info and let him post for me

 

[Grind]

once again Grind echos my sentiments and much better than I ever could

I should just give him my log-in info and let him post for me

Oh no i've been through this before.....

 

[No Name Poster]

Oh please, threads like this exist on every sport forum. Fans hate it when their highly paid players **** the bed.

I've come to the conclusion that the discussion on wether Pav's is good or bad is pretty pointless at this juncture (late to the party, i know).

Anyone who still firmly beleives pav's is currently an average to above average goal tender must subscribe to the following:

1.Does not believe in the merit of sv% as a statistic
2.Does not believe mountains of research that shows team defence has minimal effect on goalie performance
3. Allows visually appealing saves to inflate their worth of the goaltender (this is a illogical, as we don't watch other goaltenders as much as pav so it's impossible to determine whether the amount of said saves [regardless of their actual value] is any higher/better then other average-above average goaltenders)

I agree with this a lot. The other day, Noel was asked about Pav and he made a comment about how Pavs has been great and referred to some of the spectacular saves he's made. I just don't get that at all. This is the NHL. The starting goaltenders in this league should be the best 30 in the world. Of course they can make highlight reel saves.
A lot of times Pavelec needs to make those outstanding saves because he's kicked out a brutal rebound.
I would trade the highlight reel crap for a more technically sound, positional goaltender who consistently stops the puck more than 90% of the time.
Enough excuses about team defence etc..... Last year the Khabby and Dubnyk combined for over .920 save percentage on the hapless Oilers.

 

[hockey-brent]

Oh how I wish the Jets could trade for Ryan Miller...

 

[allan5oh]

Oh how I wish the Jets could trade for Ryan Miller...

Might be better going after one of Fasth now or UFA to be Hiller in the offseason. Probably get either one much cheaper. Anaheim has a wealth of goalies and needs to make a move or let Hiller walk. Buffalo doesn't have that luxury.

 

[truck]

Might be better going after one of Fasth now or UFA to be Hiller in the offseason. Probably get either one much cheaper. Anaheim has a wealth of goalies and needs to make a move or let Hiller walk. Buffalo doesn't have that luxury.

Best would have been signing Thomas Greiss (1 year, $750K) or Anton Khudobin (1 year, $800K) in the offseason.

...but I guess that was too obvious.

 

[garret9]

Key note: Pavelec doesn't suck. Top 45 goalie in the world is pretty impressive. He just isn't top 15 which is unfortunate for us.