B-Sens Belleville 2017-2018 Season

[toxic poster]

Ah, so you were upset by the revelation that people outside of the organization noticed marked improvement in our prospects. My mistake, I misunderstood.

I was upset that people outside of the organisation saw an improvement in our prospects as a result of Kleinendorst. That's not true at all, in fact it's surprising they improved in the slightest as a result of him being buried in the bottom 6 in belleville.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

I was upset that people outside of the organisation saw an improvement in our prospects as a result of Kleinendorst. That's not true at all, in fact it's surprising they improved in the slightest as a result of him being buried in the bottom 6 in belleville.

So the fact that your perception of what is the best developmental path for a young player differs from NHL executives/scouts/evaluators is proof that you’re right and they’re wrong. Got it. It would be totally unreasonable for all of us & the blogosphere to be wrong about something.

The players, coaches, scouts, journalists and managers inside and outside of our organization are just conspiring to prove us wrong, I suppose. Chlapik, White and Chabot made huge strides through the season in spite of everyone involved in their development. There’s just no chance that they were asked to do things in-game and in practice that were never required of them before, and thus required a period of tutelage.

I was very surprised by Friedman’s comment, but not so surprised by it that I cannot allow myself to believe there might be some truth to it.

 

[Micklebot]

I was upset that people outside of the organisation saw an improvement in our prospects as a result of Kleinendorst. That's not true at all, in fact it's surprising they improved in the slightest as a result of him being buried in the bottom 6 in belleville.

I imagine it's just Friedman spit-balling, but might be nice if they can get Mann to replace Kleinendorst.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

So the fact that your perception of what is the best developmental path for a young player differs from NHL executives/scouts/evaluators is proof that you’re right and they’re wrong. Got it. It would be totally unreasonable for all of us & the blogosphere to be wrong about something.

The players, coaches, scouts, journalists and managers inside and outside of our organization are just conspiring to prove us wrong, I suppose. Chlapik, White and Chabot made huge strides through the season in spite of everyone involved in their development. There’s just no chance that they were asked to do things in-game and in practice that were never required of them before, and thus required a period of tutelage.

I was very surprised by Friedman’s comment, but not so surprised by it that I cannot allow myself to believe there might be some truth to it.

I would guess that the comment was more geared towards Chabot and Brown. Then you had Batherson and Formenton make a splash at the World junior.

The really talented guys made nice strides but no one really else in the organization made much progress. I doubt anyone's disappointed in the seasons guys like Lajoie, Chlapik, White and Jaros had but it was nothing to write home about.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

I would guess that the comment was more geared towards Chabot and Brown. Then you had Batherson and Formenton make a splash at the World junior.

The really talented guys made nice strides but no one really else in the organization made much progress. I doubt anyone's disappointed in the seasons guys like Lajoie, Chlapik, White and Jaros had but it was nothing to write home about.

I dunno, that would be an extremely misleading way of presenting that information. I assume he is talking precisely about White, Jaros, Lajoie, Clapik, etc., because otherwise that would be a terribly expressed thought by Friedman. Why would he go from talking about Kleinendorst to talking about prospects KK didn’t interact with, all while presenting it as an area in which KK succeeded this past year?

 

[aragorn]

While there is no question that the team as a whole under performed in a big way I'm not sure it was expected to win the Calder either in it's first yr in Belleville. A number of players had a good season although not great & some under performed especially in net where the goalies played as badly as the goalies in Ottawa. In any league with every team if the goaltending is bad most likely the team won't be able to make the playoffs.

IMO it was the vets that were brought in who did not contribute in a bigger way & that could be because they may not have been good enough. I imagine EM did not want to spend a bundle on AHL vets & the goal in Belleville seems to be the development of the prospects more so than to win a cup with this organization.

It seemed to me that Lajoie in his first yr got to play top pairing minutes & did very well according to his coach. Gagne had his best season in the AHL last yr & had 20 goals. Chlapik led all forwards in scoring & Pokka led the defence in pts which included his previous team. Sieloff won the defenceman of the yr award, JOB won the MVP & White won the rookie of the yr in Belleville. Pokka, Chlapik & JOB were 1,2,3 in scoring & Nick Paul was 4th with 27 pts. Gustavsson looked like he could improve the goaltending in Belleville for next season & Hogberg seemed to play better down the stretch.

Not a total right off but could certainly use an influx of talent & they should get that next season when Brown, Batherson, Luchuk, Gustavsson, Wolanin, Leier & Sturtz could all be added to the roster next season. It doesn't mean they will win a cup but hopefuly get into the playoffs & see what happens.

 

[aragorn]

Here is a roster that I would consider for Belleville next season given the prospects that could end up there & the vets that are signed for next season. I have no idea regarding lineups, but I imagine the older guys would likely be higher in the lineup.

Sieloff could start in Wolanin's position & Burgdorger could start in Sieloff's position & Wolanin could find himself on the practice roster if they decide to start the yr with their vets. However, he seems skilled enough that he should be on the roster eventually sooner than later.

----- LW ----- C ----- RW
Chlapik - JOB - Gagne
Perron - Brown - Rodewald
Paul - Sexton - Batherson
Luchuk - Montrey - Sturtz/Lier

--- LD --- RD ---
Lajoie - Pokka
Wolanin - Jaros
Englund - Sieloff
Donaghey - Burgdoerfer/Erkamps

Dreidger - Hogberg/Gustavsson

 

[JungleBeat]

Was coming here to post just that. I wouldn't be adverse to giving Mann a shot in Belleville, but I honestly don't know much about him other than being the brother of our scout. If he does come here, prepare to hear complaints about nepotism. .

This is the one time I’m willing to put the nepotism complaints away lol. Coach KK is just that bad.

Belleville Senators Review: Part Three (Rookies)

@MrCraigAnderson Thought you might like this post since you were wondering about usage down there. It’s a good read.

 

[Korpse]

This is the one time I’m willing to put the nepotism complaints away lol. Coach KK is just that bad.

Belleville Senators Review: Part Three (Rookies)

@MrCraigAnderson Thought you might like this post since you were wondering about usage down there. It’s a good read.

It's pretty vague in terms of usage. For ES its just based off line combinations posted on social media. I've been over it numerous times in this thread, thats misleading. When I've watched I've tried to pay attention to the usage of players like White and Chlapik and despite them being on the 3rd or 4th "line" they were not used as 3rd or 4th line players. For PP and PK its just based on shifts.

I appreciate what Levi does but this isnt a piece to look at and say 'see white and chlapik were 3rd and 4th liners' they werent.

 

[JungleBeat]

It's pretty vague in terms of usage. For ES its just based off line combinations posted on social media. I've been over it numerous times in this thread, thats misleading. When I've watched I've tried to pay attention to the usage of players like White and Chlapik and despite them being on the 3rd or 4th "line" they were not used as 3rd or 4th line players. For PP and PK its just based on shifts.

The blog posts certainly doesn’t say they were used on the fourth line, don’t know why you think that. It says that they were mostly used on the second and third line especially in Chlapik’s case.

When you watched you might have had a bias is looking for White & Chlapik which May have clouded your judgement because most people agree that the coach hasn’t been using the young guys properly while favouring the vets.

 

[Korpse]

The blog posts certainly doesn’t say they were used on the fourth line, don’t know why you think that. It says that they were mostly used on the second and third line especially in Chlapik’s case.

When you watched you might have had a bias is looking for White & Chlapik which May have clouded your judgement because most people agree that the coach hasn’t been using the young guys properly while favouring the vets.

Oh come on.

In the prospects part, which you linked it says “ (his usage remains the most ridiculous of the season–grinding out a team leading point total while spending half the season in the bottom-six is incredible).” when referring to Chlapik.

I’m a big fan of what Chalpik brings and couldn’t care less about KK but to suggest his usage was that of a bottom 6 player for much of the season is incredibly misleading.

Obviously when I was observing the usage of prospects I tried to use it in context to other players on the team. What I obervseved from the games I watched was that KK rolled the 4 lines fairly evenly but despite that White and Chlapik revived extra ice time, whether that be PP time or extra shifts through out the game.

The overwhelming criticism of their usage has been based solely on line combinations and not their actual usage. I can tell you right now most people who have been critics of the usage of prospects don’t know how much a package or individual games wouldn’t cost them.

 

[JungleBeat]

The overwhelming criticism of their usage has been based solely on line combinations and not their actual usage. I can tell you right now most people who have been critics of the usage of prospects don’t know how much a package or individual games wouldn’t cost them.

Now you’re just assuming things. Speak for yourself dude, maybe that bias of yours is clouding your judgement? Plenty of people that cover Belleville agree that Klienindorst prefers veterans and plays them more, much like Guy Boucher.

 

[Korpse]

Now you’re just assuming things. Speak for yourself dude, maybe that bias of yours is clouding your judgement? Plenty of people that cover Belleville agree that Klienindorst prefers veterans and plays them more, much like Guy Boucher.

I’m not saying he doesn’t prefer certain experienced players over inexperienced players. Find me a coach who doesn’t. What I’m saying is the perception of how White and Chlapik were handled in Belleville is off base. They played big roles on the team despite what some will try and make you believe.

 

[JungleBeat]

I’m not saying he doesn’t prefer certain experienced players over inexperienced players. Find me a coach who doesn’t. What I’m saying is the perception of how White and Chlapik were handled in Belleville is off base. They played big roles on the team despite what some will try and make you believe.

Chlapik has been scratched and was put on the third line regularly. Not really the type of deployment you want for our top prospects, especially when the team is terrible - which is a direct result of Kurt overplaying bad veterans that mean absolutely nothing to the Senators organization. Talk about self sabotaging.

 

[Korpse]

Chlapik has been scratched and was put on the third line regularly. Not really the type of deployment you want for our top prospects, especially when the team is terrible - which is a direct result of Kurt overplaying bad veterans that mean absolutely nothing to the Senators organization. Talk about self sabotaging.

Are you referring to when Chlapik was stratched due to travel issues after being sent down. Or that time where he wasn’t originally in the lineup but ended up playing that night? Not sure there were any other instances besides those two, one of which didn’t actually result in a scratch.

At this point I’m not sure you are actually trying to understand the point I’m attempting to make in regards to usage of Chlapik and White. I’ll try and make it a little clearer.

White and Chlapik were listed on bottom 6 lines for much of the season BUT their usage was not that of Bottom 6 players. They were used on PP1 (White was used on PK as well) and would get extra shifts when 4 lines weren’t being rolled evenly. Look I already acknowledged that KK has his favorites and I’m not in the least trying to defend him or any decisions he made but it’s incorrect to suggest White or Chlapik were used as 3rd or 4th liners. That’s simply not the case.

 

[JungleBeat]

White and Chlapik were listed on bottom 6 lines for much of the season BUT their usage was not that of Bottom 6 players. They were used on PP1 (White was used on PK as well) and would get extra shifts when 4 lines weren’t being rolled evenly. Look I already acknowledged that KK has his favorites and I’m not in the least trying to defend him or any decisions he made but it’s incorrect to suggest White or Chlapik were used as 3rd or 4th liners. That’s simply not the case.

I understand your point but I don’t agree with it. I don’t care where they are listed I’m talking about actual ice time which favoured the vets plain and simple. Maybe the few times you watched had the prospects getting a bit more ice time but that wasn’t the case for the majority of the season. This is corroborated with people who cover the B-Sens as well as my personal viewings.

You probably got lucky with watching the extremely few games when the prospects where fed good icetime over the veterans. Anyways, have a good day!

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Princeton, this past season, was led by two 3rd-year forwards:

Ryan Kuffner - LW, 21, 6'1, 185
Max Veronneau - RW, 22, 6'0, 181

Full stats: Princeton Univ.

They combined for 46 goals and 107 pts in 36 games and they are....... both Ottawa boys! They both played for Jr. 67s, Gloucester Rangers, and are have been together in Princeton for the past three years.

All told, they have been teammates for the entirety of the past 8 season.

If we are smart, we should have guys working on getting them to commit and doing everything we can to make it happen. They might not develop into NHLers but they could be a formidable AHL duo and possibly 2/3rds of a productive pro-level line for us.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Oh come on.

In the prospects part, which you linked it says “ (his usage remains the most ridiculous of the season–grinding out a team leading point total while spending half the season in the bottom-six is incredible).” when referring to Chlapik.

I’m a big fan of what Chalpik brings and couldn’t care less about KK but to suggest his usage was that of a bottom 6 player for much of the season is incredibly misleading.

Obviously when I was observing the usage of prospects I tried to use it in context to other players on the team. What I obervseved from the games I watched was that KK rolled the 4 lines fairly evenly but despite that White and Chlapik revived extra ice time, whether that be PP time or extra shifts through out the game.

The overwhelming criticism of their usage has been based solely on line combinations and not their actual usage. I can tell you right now most people who have been critics of the usage of prospects don’t know how much a package or individual games wouldn’t cost them.

well who they played with counts for something as well

 

[Sensinitis]

I understand your point but I don’t agree with it. I don’t care where they are listed I’m talking about actual ice time which favoured the vets plain and simple. Maybe the few times you watched had the prospects getting a bit more ice time but that wasn’t the case for the majority of the season. This is corroborated with people who cover the B-Sens as well as my personal viewings.

You probably got lucky with watching the extremely few games when the prospects where fed good icetime over the veterans. Anyways, have a good day!

This is OT but I just wanna say that your posts have become much better over the past months, particularly when someone disagrees with you you've become much more judicious. Props dude!

I'll add, for this post to be less OT, that the B-Sens need someone other than Randy as GM to start being more relevant. Randy was a Murray boy, I'm hoping that Dorion eventually sees the light and fires him.

 

[JungleBeat]

This is OT but I just wanna say that your posts have become much better over the past months, particularly when someone disagrees with you you've become much more judicious. Props dude!

I'll add, for this post to be less OT, that the B-Sens need someone other than Randy as GM to start being more relevant. Randy was a Murray boy, I'm hoping that Dorion eventually sees the light and fires him.

Thanks man!!




Dotion got one thing right!

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

YAAAYYYY

 

[DrEasy]

Dorion probably added: "Randy Lee will be coach and GM".

 

[Ouroboros]

 

[BonkTastic]

This is OT but I just wanna say that your posts have become much better over the past months, particularly when someone disagrees with you you've become much more judicious. Props dude!

I'll second this, for sure.

It's night-and-day different. Like, overwhelmingly noticeably different. Way more patient, way more willing to listen, to engage in conversation rather than blast sound bytes, and offer constructive responses that debate a point instead of debating a poster.

@JungleBeat , keep it up, my dude!

 

[Micklebot]

Interesting comments by Klienindorst regarding the news that he won't be back


Of note, Troy Mann being released 7 days ago, and Dorion saying that they came to the decision to release Klienindorst a few days ago, anyone think the two incidents are tied to one another?