Kazakhstan: Beibarys Atyrau worse than jail

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SoundAndFury

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May 28, 2012
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There's hundreds of places like that in any city, but the point is he's a "pro" player making decent cash, not impoverished and playing in the streets. Is this the best someone making good money can get in Kazakhstan? Obviously a pro player in Kiev will be able to afford a nice apartment.

He's only a pro and is only making decent cash because he plays in Kazakhstan. He probably couldn't stay pro anywhere else. So he's not that far from "playing in the streets".

And no, pro in Kiev can't afford a nice (by your standards) apartment. I know Arturas Katulis personally, he played for Berkut for two seasons and lived in a place just like that. Sure, he could've probably afforded a better place but you have to think about the future, have savings, the life of a hockey player at that level isn't the most predictable one. You are not getting payed for the full year, you don't know if you'll have a job next season and how much will you get paid, you might get injured. These guys aren't stars or millionaires. They struggle through life as much as the next guy only that their trade is playing hockey. And in a situation like that you don't want to overspent on luxury. Most guys just takes those apartments and are happy it's one more thing they are taken care off.

I think it's worth pointing out these are free apartments, my employer does the same for me here in Russia. If any player is unsatisfied with their accommodation they can rent an apartment themselves. If he is making decent cash he can get his own apartment.

This is exactly right. Except that very few of them are actually making decent cash.
 

Sokil

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Apr 29, 2010
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I'm not talking about "Ukrainian league" salaries, that's not even pro hockey

Is Danton not even making $60k USD a year? Surely he wouldn't go to Kazakhstan for bad money. With 60kUSD you surely could get a good apartment, if that's the quality indicative of decent pay then that's the issue here. You shouldn't live in poverty levels with "good" money; imagine how bad "bad" money is.
 

SoundAndFury

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May 28, 2012
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I'm not talking about "Ukrainian league" salaries, that's not even pro hockey

Is Danton not even making $60k USD a year? Surely he wouldn't go to Kazakhstan for bad money. With 60kUSD you surely could get a good apartment, if that's the quality indicative of decent pay then that's the issue here. You shouldn't live in poverty levels with "good" money; imagine how bad "bad" money is.

Oh, it was pro hockey, it was. Berkut had a really decent team last year with good salaries and players like Mikhnov or Pobedonostsev. I mean they even signed Brandon Maxwell for a few games. I think their wages were pretty much on par with Kazakh league level.

Now he plays in Poland so surely he isn't making 60k per year there but he said his contract was 8k per year in Kazakhstan and that means 64k per year. The problem is like he mentioned he wasn't really getting that much. And like he has written, he could've gotten a good apartment but club asked to chip in 100 bucks per month for it and he refused to.
 

Jonimaus

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Jul 15, 2011
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Wait... This guy plays hockey and gets paid for it? -He can shut his mouth and count his blessings. I would live in a cardboard box if I could even be so lucky to play hockey everyday let alone to get paid for it.

I'm pretty sure you can live in a box and play hockey everyday. Don't think it's very expensive to live in boxes, so even if you're not rich you should be able to cover the "living expenses". So now do it.
 

iamjs

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Oh, it was pro hockey, it was. Berkut had a really decent team last year with good salaries and players like Mikhnov or Pobedonostsev. I mean they even signed Brandon Maxwell for a few games. I think their wages were pretty much on par with Kazakh league level.

Now he plays in Poland so surely he isn't making 60k per year there but he said his contract was 8k per year in Kazakhstan and that means 64k per year. The problem is like he mentioned he wasn't really getting that much. And like he has written, he could've gotten a good apartment but club asked to chip in 100 bucks per month for it and he refused to.

his contract said 8k/mo, but until he "tipped" the coaches, the trainer, the stick boy, the president of the club, and had bonuses withheld, I'm sure it was much less than that.
 

airbus1094

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Feb 27, 2013
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Alright, I'm biased because I'm from KZ, but if you ask me this is a typical case of a stuck-up foreigner who thinks he is too good for Kazakhstan and looks to complain everything. That being said, there's corruption, greed, poverty and all the other typical Soviet crap. Kazakhstan is no Switzerland, but you can live a decent life on the salary these guys are making (even after bribes they probably make over 60k/year). This guy knew what he was getting into, if you want to play for a decent club, go to the KHL. The Kazakh league? come-on it's a s**t-show and you're a moron if you expect anything more.
 

Mr Leth

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Oct 4, 2010
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Probably because it's close to living standards in Latvia? In Sweden that apartment would be considered beyond ******.

A late response but still...
You can't be serious.
Although it's not exactly the latest standard it sure looks just as "modern" as many apartments I've visited here in Sweden!
Hell, I've even been to hotel rooms in western countries that had lower standard than this.
So anyone using this as a reference of poor living conditions...I'm sorry, I'd have to say they've been spoiled and pampered.
 

Jonimaus

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Jul 15, 2011
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A late response but still...
You can't be serious.
Although it's not exactly the latest standard it sure looks just as "modern" as many apartments I've visited here in Sweden!
Hell, I've even been to hotel rooms in western countries that had lower standard than this.
So anyone using this as a reference of poor living conditions...I'm sorry, I'd have to say they've been spoiled and pampered.

Seems I'm busy living the good life.
 

VladNYC*

Guest
The stuff about the baby furniture and all of that was pretty stupid on his part.


But if the corruption chargers and salary irregularities are true then those people running the team should be in jail. Or fired in the least. I have no sympathy for any of that stuff. In Kazakhstan or Russia or any where.
 

Garl

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Oct 7, 2006
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LOL, wow you people are definately spoiled if you think that is how a bad aparment looks.)))

I've been to Atyrau myself, yeah, a typical soviet town, with a rather nice bank of the river called Ural, and my apartment was very much like this one, maybe it's exactly the same one.

I once lived in a russian kolhoz village, now that was an adventure. The toilet was gorgeous, and the only furniture me and my coworker had was a table and 2 old semi-destroyed beds.:laugh:
 

finchster

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Jul 12, 2006
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Alright, I'm biased because I'm from KZ, but if you ask me this is a typical case of a stuck-up foreigner who thinks he is too good for Kazakhstan and looks to complain everything.
I don't think it's the case of being stuck up, it's culture shock. I am a Canadian living in Russia and I've traveled to Ukraine and Moldova with Canadian's. For the most part their travel experience has been a short trip down to Mexico or at most backpacking through western Europe. They simply have no idea how other parts of the world live and expect everything to be like Canada/USA/Western Europe.
 

Jonimaus

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Could we move past the living condition crap and focus on the real issues? Everything else. Corruption, broken promises etc.
 

ozo

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Feb 24, 2010
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Could we move past the living condition crap and focus on the real issues? Everything else. Corruption, broken promises etc.

What kind of discussion do you expect on these matters. You think, that there will be a member who will say that corruption is ok? :laugh:

Sheer fact, that foreigners are still there and some even for multiple seasons simply shows, that it isn't that bad as the worst experiences suggest.
 

Jonimaus

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What kind of discussion do you expect on these matters. You think, that there will be a member who will say that corruption is ok? :laugh:

Sheer fact, that foreigners are still there and some even for multiple seasons simply shows, that it isn't that bad as the worst experiences suggest.

Because? Are you naive enough to think that everyone has the option of "well gee, I don't like this place, I'll just leave". :laugh: Seriously. :laugh:

Is there a list anywhere how many non-Eastern europeans/asians there are playing in the Kazhakstan league?
 

ozo

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Feb 24, 2010
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Because? Are you naive enough to think that everyone has the option of "well gee, I don't like this place, I'll just leave". :laugh: Seriously. :laugh:

Is there a list anywhere how many non-Eastern europeans/asians there are playing in the Kazhakstan league?

Not sure where are you aiming with "just leaving" part, I thought Atyrau is worse than jail, which you can't just leave. :D So I'll leave that, but as always Eliteprospects comes handy to see how many foreigners are there - click - so 9 Finns, 2 Swedes, 7 Canadians and one GB player. Who knows how Western you think are those 30 players from Czech Republic/Slovakia and that Slovenian player. Also ~25 players from former Soviet countries not named Russia.
 

SoundAndFury

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May 28, 2012
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Also, as I've already mentioned before in some other thread, players like Zalesak or Hujsa, were legit stars in the Slovak league and have played in Czech Extraliga, SHL, AHL and even NHL before so they definitely have an option to leave to some other European league if they don't like that place. But they choose not to so as ozo said, it can't be THAT bad.
 

Jonimaus

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Jul 15, 2011
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Not sure where are you aiming with "just leaving" part, I thought Atyrau is worse than jail, which you can't just leave. :D So I'll leave that, but as always Eliteprospects comes handy to see how many foreigners are there - click - so 9 Finns, 2 Swedes, 7 Canadians and one GB player. Who knows how Western you think are those 30 players from Czech Republic/Slovakia and that Slovenian player. Also ~25 players from former Soviet countries not named Russia.

Do not consider Czeck, Slovakian or Slovenian people "western european", as they are not, so not sure why you bother to bring that up.
 

SoundAndFury

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May 28, 2012
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Do not consider Czeck, Slovakian or Slovenian people "western european", as they are not, so not sure why you bother to bring that up.

Instead of making any kind of reasonable argument or at least replying to any of the arguments made earlier you decided to go with geography lesson. Nice.

What's your point here?
 

Siamese Dream

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Feb 5, 2011
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Not sure where are you aiming with "just leaving" part, I thought Atyrau is worse than jail, which you can't just leave. :D So I'll leave that, but as always Eliteprospects comes handy to see how many foreigners are there - click - so 9 Finns, 2 Swedes, 7 Canadians and one GB player. Who knows how Western you think are those 30 players from Czech Republic/Slovakia and that Slovenian player. Also ~25 players from former Soviet countries not named Russia.

The Brit playing in Kazakhstan has been there 3 seasons and basically came out on twitter and called Danton a joke
 

Jonimaus

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Jul 15, 2011
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Instead of making any kind of reasonable argument or at least replying to any of the arguments made earlier you decided to go with geography lesson. Nice.

What's your point here?

The fact that it seems pretty much everyone except 18 players in the Kazhakstan league comes from situations that are much closer to the life in Kazhakstan than west europe. If you're comming from a life that is comparable, of course you're not going to make a fuss about it. I guess people should have expected it, so it's his fault for being surprised how terrible it is in that country :dunno: Personally I was surprised about the corruption, since Khazakstan is a country that has not been mentioned once in Sweden the last 30 years, I guess many of didn't know what type of country Kazhakstan is, apart from being a poor former soviet state.
 

SoundAndFury

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May 28, 2012
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The fact that it seems pretty much everyone except 18 players in the Kazhakstan league comes from situations that are much closer to the life in Kazhakstan than west europe. If you're comming from a life that is comparable, of course you're not going to make a fuss about it. I guess people should have expected it, so it's his fault for being surprised how terrible it is in that country :dunno:

At first, you said "could we move past the living condition crap and focus on the real issues?" and now you are saying that "everyone except 18 players in the Kazhakstan league comes from situations that are much closer to the life in Kazhakstan than Western Europe". How come? Nothing except living conditions (and those only to some extent) are comparable about the life in Slovakia, or the Czech Republic, or Latvia to life in Kazakhstan. If you would ignore "the living condition crap" you've suggested to ignore you would see there are more than 60 players who come from the whole different world.

And we are talking about some of the players who've played in the NHL before, they've seen a lot and they really do have the option to leave if something is that wrong about the league, once again, other than living conditions crap they probably manage to put up with.
 
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