Beer League Frustrations Vent Thread II

[Bear of Bad News]

Let's pick things up here.

Part I: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=844640

Click to read more...

 

[YNWA14]

Maybe it's just me, but seeing as this is my first year of hockey I'm not really sure what the standard is. I have noticed that, for a recreational league, there is a lot of chippy stuff that doesn't get called. Is this just because refs miss it or because they think it's ok? I'm not sure, but as a beginner it can get pretty frustrating when I'm hauled down, slashed, high sticked, or flat out bodychecked and nothing is called (especially since I'm still learning a lot).

 

[TheRedShadow]

I'm not even 'beer league' but on a 'learn to play' course and it's really noticable how most of the teens there are way more keen on hitting than learning to play.

 

[TLow97]

We lost a player for the summer with a broken rib in a game last week. Refs let the game get out of control. One of our better players, too--fore/backchecks hard. Seemed like the refs wanted to keep the game going so they could get home/the bar or something.

 

[Superstar Treatment]

The reffing questions, although it's not how I've reffed, a lot of the time the lower level refs will pretty much let anything not obvious go against a guy if he's better than the guy committing the penalty.

It's really sad but I've seen it happen at pretty much every adult level.

 

[JR97]

Ringers playing down a level is an obvious gripe. But also being on a team of noobs who cry about every team being "ringers" is my gripe right now. I"m on a team where everybody but 3 of us is totally new to the league having come from learn to skate or "world division" which is basically a level up from learn to skate. They seem to think that just because we're in the lowest division that it's a beginner division. It is not and that's why there is a "world division".

Granted, we suck. The last 3 games were 7,8, and 9 to nothing......... after the 1st period. I would say that only 1 of those teams had a legit ringer playing in a division too low. The other teams were just very good teams that have been around for years.

How about instead of crying about everybody being a ringer and learn something? Like offsides, where to line up on the face off, how to change on the fly, etc. Maybe go above and beyond and learn about positioning.

 

[Danko]

Showed up at 7:30 for a game at 8:20, only to find out that the game was moved back to 8:50. League never sent an e-mail or gave anyone a heads up...coulda been watchin the 1st of the chicago/boston game.

 

[BogsDiamond]

Maybe it's just me, but seeing as this is my first year of hockey I'm not really sure what the standard is. I have noticed that, for a recreational league, there is a lot of chippy stuff that doesn't get called. Is this just because refs miss it or because they think it's ok? I'm not sure, but as a beginner it can get pretty frustrating when I'm hauled down, slashed, high sticked, or flat out bodychecked and nothing is called (especially since I'm still learning a lot).

That is hockey in every league, at every level.
"It's part of the game". It's complete crap but it's ingrained in the sport and will never leave.

Refs never want to 'decide the game', even though by allowing someone to bodycheck an opponent, in a non-contact league, led to injuries, a loss, fights, suspensions, etc.

You have to understand that hockey players, by nature, are dirty, whiny athletes who are encouraged to break the rules and have tantrums when things don't go their way.

I adore the sport of hockey, but I can't stand all the 'crap' that comes with it.
To me, the absolute best kind of hockey is pond hockey.
I'm family with a former NHLer who says this all the time.

 

[Jarick]

The annoying part to me is that ringers seem to find their way in any game at any level.

Five years ago, I was a "level four" player in one league. Guys kept sandbagging to get ice times, now I'm a low "level three" player. And a lot of these "lower level" skates are faster than the old higher level ones.

A few years ago, our team got bumped up a level. I had a great year, scoring nearly a goal per game, nearly any time could beat any other team on any night with the parity. We won 12 of 20 games or so, missed the playoffs but had fun. Last year, I had about a third as many goals and we won FOUR games of 20. Same league and division. We had two teams come in full of ringers.

It's annoying and it makes it hard to pony up the 500-600 bucks for league play every year.

 

[Superstar Treatment]

I'll admit, I play down sometimes 'cause I have friends that play in low divisions so I help if they're short. Won't ever play a playoff game.

But, there's an etiquette to being a "ringer." Don't showboat, I've had guys get way more mad at showboating than just putting your head down and skating hard. And passing should always be your first, second and third look. And, since I'm a defenseman, I mainly just play the front of the net, not the guy with the puck.

 

[Trl3789]

I'll admit, I play down sometimes 'cause I have friends that play in low divisions so I help if they're short. Won't ever play a playoff game.

But, there's an etiquette to being a "ringer." Don't showboat, I've had guys get way more mad at showboating than just putting your head down and skating hard. And passing should always be your first, second and third look. And, since I'm a defenseman, I mainly just play the front of the net, not the guy with the puck.

Honestly the issues for me don't revolve around the ringers. It's their teammates that get the bad blood going. We played a team that had a few ringers, it was whatever, but they kept quiet, didn't showboat etc. I can handle that, it happens. It's when the guys who were on the team normally who started running their mouths and trash talking even though it was the ringers who were scoring.. Honestly that's what gets me fired up. it makes me feel like they're trying to embarrass me and my teammates. That's what gets me upset. So when the were getting the score run up on us by a team with ringers, and the regulars continue to trash talk even though its 8-1, that's when I've seen things start to escalate.

 

[Superstar Treatment]

Oh yeah, that's beyond BS. If you were good enough to run your mouth then you wouldn't need to bring guys in.

That's also when, as a ref, I'd call every little thing I could on the non-ringers. Make them realize it's a pattern.

 

[Boot]

Showed up at 7:30 for a game at 8:20, only to find out that the game was moved back to 8:50. League never sent an e-mail or gave anyone a heads up...coulda been watchin the 1st of the chicago/boston game.

Could be worse. I had a game last season where our team was told the game was pushed back an hour, only to get to the rink and find out no one else was told of the time change and we had about 5 minutes until the start of the game. Only one other guy was there for our team

 

[Vuronov]

I'll admit, I play down sometimes 'cause I have friends that play in low divisions so I help if they're short. Won't ever play a playoff game.

But, there's an etiquette to being a "ringer." Don't showboat, I've had guys get way more mad at showboating than just putting your head down and skating hard. And passing should always be your first, second and third look. And, since I'm a defenseman, I mainly just play the front of the net, not the guy with the puck.

My issue with "ringers" who try to sit back, and not take over a game by scoring, and instead just play D and make passes, is that depending on how big a difference of ability level there is between the ringer D and the opposing teams players, they can still take over a game.

I played in a D level league where one team had a guy who was obviously ex-collegiate (later confirmed). He never shot the puck, but even without that, he could completely control the game when he was on the ice. The only way to get the puck off him was to run him, and that's assuming you could even get near him, which was unlikely. He could skate circles around everyone and basically play keep away and then blow out past you and then play keep away in your zone until one of his guys could get into a position to take a pass. Sometimes it was more like he scored by banking it off his player, sure his buddy got the goal, but really he made it all happen.

Also, he could totally shut down any offensive chances against his team. His goalie must have been bored because no one could get behind him and any move a player tried he'd simply poke the puck away. The rest of his team was same as opposing teams, but even without actively scoring he totally tilted the ice in their favor. I think they only lost one game that season, a game he missed, and won most games in shutouts or allowing one or two goals when he wasn't on the ice (which was most of the time).

It took two seasons of this before the team got moved up a level, but during those two seasons the rest of the teams in our division just accepted we were gonna lose to them not matter what we did (and we kept playing hard).

 

[Frankie Spankie]

I'm one of the youngest players in both my leagues (the youngest by a few years in the other) but this morning there's a guy who's about my age, and acts like he's half it. He has too much talent for the level he's playing in. The game was pretty much over, they scored an empty netter to make it 9-6 and with a faceoff at 20 seconds, the center on our team, who almost always plays defense and admittedly doesn't know what he's doing at faceoffs, just swipes for the puck when the ref drops it and hits this other kid's stick. That kid immediately takes a slash at my teammates stick, because apparently he's not smart enough to realize that somebody who's twice as old as him and almost always plays defense doesn't know what he's doing at face offs. My teammate knows it's not worth the trouble and just skates off. We scored a goal with about 3 seconds left on the clock, it's running time. After the buzzer goes off, again, at least 3 seconds after the whistle blows for the goal, he comes down and hacks my teammate's stick from behind again, then quickly skates off in the opposite direction making sure not to make eye contact. I'd love to see him play against people his own age and skill-level, but then again, he probably gets beat up too much there and lacks the maturity to make any kind of an impact. Damn ringers who treat lower level games like it's the NHL...

 

[deems]

I play in a 12x10x10 league but time doesn't stop between warm up and the first drop. Game started at 8:50. This is a norm in Toronto. I've gotten excuses that the demand is high for ice time but I've played in a league in San Jose with more teams under 1 roof, less ice, 15x15x15 stop time, and games start later in the evening. I warm up halfway through the 3rd period.

 

[kerk]

guy in my game on sunday who was already in the penalty box opened the gate to the time keeper's area and tried to fight the time keeper, one ref went in to break it up, his team scored, the goal somehow counted, and the guy stayed in the game and didn't even end up with another penalty.

later in the game, a line brawl broke out 4 times and one time at their bench. two times because one of their players hacked our goalie and another because one of their players went after our player after he scored. apparently the guy who tried to fight the time keeper was going to his players, that player would go out and do something dirty, and he would just be there laughing

should these refs be disciplined for letting the game get so out of hand? imo if they had just gotten rid of the guy who tried to fight the time keeper a lot less would have happened and the refs sure as hell let a lot go during the game. we've had these refs for the last 3 games and they've been brutal every time. i should really recommend my team's captain goes and requests different refs for our games because they're totally ruining the games for us.

 

[Phil Connors*]

should these refs be disciplined for letting the game get so out of hand? imo if they had just gotten rid of the guy who tried to fight the time keeper a lot less would have happened and the refs sure as hell let a lot go during the game. we've had these refs for the last 3 games and they've been brutal every time. i should really recommend my team's captain goes and requests different refs for our games because they're totally ruining the games for us.

Out of curiosity, what would be your idea of 'disciplined'?

Why they didn't kick the guy out for trying to fight the scorekeeper is beyond me. Had I been the scorekeeper, I wouldn't have continued with the guy still in the game.

 

[kerk]

Out of curiosity, what would be your idea of 'disciplined'?

Why they didn't kick the guy out for trying to fight the scorekeeper is beyond me. Had I been the scorekeeper, I wouldn't have continued with the guy still in the game.

haha i have no idea it was just the first word that came to mind because of how often it gets used with the nhl.

i think there's gotta be something done but i have no idea what could possibly be done. only thing i can hope for is to not see these refs again, but they do this with their own free time, i'm sure they could find somewhere else to ref if the league stopped using them. that or the league couldn't stop using them because they'd then have to find new refs. idk. send them down a level lmao. at least the league usually separates the teams that have these incidents so we shouldn't run into the same team again at least for a while.

and yeah i was really pissed about that because i time keep for lacrosse and if any player went after me in the box the ref would come right in, stop the game and throw the player out. felt really bad for the guy.

 

[Phil Connors*]

haha i have no idea it was just the first word that came to mind because of how often it gets used with the nhl.

i think there's gotta be something done but i have no idea what could possibly be done. only thing i can hope for is to not see these refs again, but they do this with their own free time, i'm sure they could find somewhere else to ref if the league stopped using them. that or the league couldn't stop using them because they'd then have to find new refs. idk. send them down a level lmao. at least the league usually separates the teams that have these incidents so we shouldn't run into the same team again at least for a while.

and yeah i was really pissed about that because i time keep for lacrosse and if any player went after me in the box the ref would come right in, stop the game and throw the player out. felt really bad for the guy.

I hear you. The only thing I can think of as you mentioned would have them ref lower level games (or not at all, though this is very rare).
As for them reffing your team 3 games/weeks in a row (not knowing your schedule), it's just either coincidence or they were the only ones available.
I'm not sure what to say other than if they continue to ref and do a poor job, have a talk to the head of the league in the most respectful manner possible. It's a sticky situation with no clear answer really, best of luck.

 

[rokkinman139]

I'll admit, I play down sometimes 'cause I have friends that play in low divisions so I help if they're short. Won't ever play a playoff game.

But, there's an etiquette to being a "ringer." Don't showboat, I've had guys get way more mad at showboating than just putting your head down and skating hard. And passing should always be your first, second and third look. And, since I'm a defenseman, I mainly just play the front of the net, not the guy with the puck.

I'm probably what would be considered a ringer. I'm playing in the EJ/USPHL next year, on a path to the NA and then college. My sister's team is too good for the women's league in the area, so they moved into a men's league for a challenge. They asked me to play, so I do. I usually play a physical defense, so I decided to play wing for this. I'm an awful forward, but still am, more often than not, the best player on the ice. That being said, I don't showboat or anything like that and my philosophy is always pass first. No cherrypicking and I don't deke around the D for breakaways. One thing that pisses me off to no end is the guys who decide that no one in the world can be better than them. I almost had to be stretchered off of the ice because a guy I was playing against decided to run me from behind while I was fishing the puck out of a dead spot in the ice. I ended up skating off under my own power without any serious injuries (a neck sprain and a fractured ring finger somehow) but that really pissed me off.

 

[Trl3789]

I'm probably what would be considered a ringer. I'm playing in the EJ/USPHL next year, on a path to the NA and then college. My sister's team is too good for the women's league in the area, so they moved into a men's league for a challenge. They asked me to play, so I do. I usually play a physical defense, so I decided to play wing for this. I'm an awful forward, but still am, more often than not, the best player on the ice. That being said, I don't showboat or anything like that and my philosophy is always pass first. No cherrypicking and I don't deke around the D for breakaways. One thing that pisses me off to no end is the guys who decide that no one in the world can be better than them. I almost had to be stretchered off of the ice because a guy I was playing against decided to run me from behind while I was fishing the puck out of a dead spot in the ice. I ended up skating off under my own power without any serious injuries (a neck sprain and a fractured ring finger somehow) but that really pissed me off.

This is where i think the problem lies. I think its a super fine line. I don't mind if people are better than me, but if they're so much better its apparent they're in the wrong league, it can be extremely embarrassing and frustrating. Even though you may not be stick handling through everyone, etc, its still pretty apparent in most cases that guys are playing in the wrong league. By no means am i saying what he did was even remotely close to acceptable, i just think there has to be a lot more understanding from both sides.

I think its a lot like slow play in golf. If you ask anyone if they're a slow player, he (or she) will say no. But plenty of other guys will say he's slow. If I asked a ringer if he thought he was embarrassing the other guys on the ice, he'd probably say no, but i bet there would be a few guys on the other team who felt like they were being taken advantage off. And If you asked the other team if they were being too rough because of a ringer, they'd probably say no, while the team with the ringer absolutely believes they were.

I really hope that analogy makes sense. I've read it so many times it sounds weird regardless.

 

[rokkinman139]

This is where i think the problem lies. I think its a super fine line. I don't mind if people are better than me, but if they're so much better its apparent they're in the wrong league, it can be extremely embarrassing and frustrating. Even though you may not be stick handling through everyone, etc, its still pretty apparent in most cases that guys are playing in the wrong league. By no means am i saying what he did was even remotely close to acceptable, i just think there has to be a lot more understanding from both sides.

I think its a lot like slow play in golf. If you ask anyone if they're a slow player, he (or she) will say no. But plenty of other guys will say he's slow. If I asked a ringer if he thought he was embarrassing the other guys on the ice, he'd probably say no, but i bet there would be a few guys on the other team who felt like they were being taken advantage off. And If you asked the other team if they were being too rough because of a ringer, they'd probably say no, while the team with the ringer absolutely believes they were.

I really hope that analogy makes sense. I've read it so many times it sounds weird regardless.

It absolutely makes sense. I understand that sometimes I do embarrass people. That being said, it's not like I'll just go out there, make everyone look stupid, and whine about the small contact or holds and stuff like that. That particular situation stuck out to me though because he had been throwing elbows at me all game. I consciously decided to embarrass him because of that. He crossed some lines with me, so I crossed a line with him. Probably not the smartest thing to do in retrospect...

 

[TMLOBI]

Refs calling the game early! WTF I paid for this **** and we're down a goal and some chippiness happens and the refs decide to call the game when there is a minute left! WHAT IS THAT?

 

[McDugan]

Refs calling the game early! WTF I paid for this **** and we're down a goal and some chippiness happens and the refs decide to call the game when there is a minute left! DAFAUQ IS THAT?

Maybe they got sick of your "pest" shtick.