Bears and NFL Talk Thread LV: Bears Meltdown

[Blackhawkswincup]

How many games did he miss his rookie year due to injury? Was it even that many? I’m don’t remember him being pegged to start week 1.

Remember original plan was for Stewart to start and Chandler to be #2 with Rex as #3

Once Bears were out of playoff race they went to Rex and he broke his finger. Then next year he was #1 but tore his knee vs Vikes. Then in 05 he broke his ankle

He essentially was red shirted his rookie year and then missed the next two seasons because of injuries

There was really no good reason for Bears to not look for upgrade at QB position via draft (Rodgers) , Trade or FA at that time

And his game vs Panthers was pretty shitty so that should not have been enough for Bears to go into 06 with "Rex as #1"

At this point we must wonder did Rex have incriminating photo's on Angelo and Lovie? How the hell could any rational GM or coach not look for upgrade at QB

Click to read more...

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Rodgers sliding that far was a surprise, no argument. It's worth pointing out that Rex had 6 starts in 2 years because of injuries. Obviously in hindsight its easy to see that its a mistake, but I can't really fault them for it.

Let's say that in 4 years, Trubisky is out of the league and Josh Rosen (taken #10 this year) is a MVP candidate. You can look back and say man the Bears dropped the ball on that, but there was no way they were going to take Rosen this year after having invested in Trubisky. In that scenario, call Trubisky a bust and rip Pace for taking him. However, I wouldn't fault him for passing on Rosen.

That is poor comparable though

Bears selected Rex in 03

He got injured in 03 , Got injured in 04 and the Bears should not have been sold on him at QB barring them to draft a QB in 05. But lets say we accept that

After his injury in 05 there was no excuse for Bears continued (He is our QB) and not looking for upgrade via draft , trade and FA

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Cool. Tell us more.

Well Jay as a rookie had higher TD rate , lower INT rate and far better accuracy

The fact Grossman was not even a 55% passer shows just how awful he was

Again after 3 lost years with Rex there was no reason Bears should have not moved on and went for a Cutler at draft or signed a upgrade as FA (Brees was FA) or traded for a QB

 

[RayP]

Well Jay as a rookie had higher TD rate , lower INT rate and far better accuracy

The fact Grossman was not even a 55% passer shows just how awful he was

Nobody thinks Grossman wasn’t awful, but keeping doing you.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Well there was no excuse to go into 2006 with Rex as #1

You agree that is yet another management/coaching failure

We had options

OMG I just remembered the Titans were trying to trade McNair and Bears said they had no interest in him. His 2006 season is exactly the steady type of QB play we needed for that team with D/ST we had

And Ravens only gave up a 4th rounder for him

But Lovie and Jerry loved Rex for some god awful reason. Hell even kept him as our #1 to start 2007 despite the debacle that was his play for most of 2006 after the first month of season when he feasted on lousy teams like Bills

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Well, if we took a QB in the first round in 03, are we really looking for a QB in the first round in 05?? Now Rodgers worked out and is a stud, but if we did that, and at the time used 2 first round picks in 2 years on QBs...not sure how that would look at all, or if we were even looking at QBs at all..Grossman or Plummer as BWC wanted, we aren't looking at a QB in 05 especially not in the first round.

Not looking for a position doesn't mean you should preclude consideration of it when a shockingly attractive prospect is somehow available to you. I'm not using hindsight here, I honestly don't think a single scout or news outlet remotely projected Grossman nearly as highly as Rodgers, even with the benefit of Grossman having a few years of development in the Bears organization.

And I'm not talking about a situation like the Browns just drafting QBs left and right and failing time and time again, I'm talking about being gifted an obvious upgrade by all reasonable metrics based on the information available at the time and deciding to pass on that because they had other areas of need rather than going after the best player available (and still an area that needed substantial improvement).

No, it wasn’t a poor decision. Just stop.

It would have been completely stupid to draft Rodgers for the Bears there given the way the team was built at the time.

How would it have been stupid? It would've been an upgrade in the QB position likely in the very near short term based on contemporary player analyses on a team that shockingly went 11-5 despite Grossman being out. But the Bears decision to stick with Grossman rather than accept a gift haunted us if not that immediate season, but definitely midterm and longterm, and it all stemmed from the Bears overvaluing the guy they drafted previously and not wanting the optics of making a sudden change.

 

[Illinihockey]

No they should have signed Plummer because he was top UFA and wanted to come to Chicago

Bears instead wanted a cheap #1 in Stewart and decided to draft Grossman instead

Plummer could have been good for Bears and if he didn't work out the Bears would have been set in 2005 to draft a QB

Jake Plummer was coming off of a season where he put up a 65 QB rating and had 20 interceptions compared to 18 touchdowns.

 

[RayP]

Not looking for a position doesn't mean you should preclude consideration of it when a shockingly attractive prospect is somehow available to you. I'm not using hindsight here, I honestly don't think a single scout or news outlet remotely projected Grossman nearly as highly as Rodgers, even with the benefit of Grossman having a few years of development in the Bears organization.

And I'm not talking about a situation like the Browns just drafting QBs left and right and failing time and time again, I'm talking about being gifted an obvious upgrade by all reasonable metrics based on the information available at the time and deciding to pass on that because they had other areas of need rather than going after the best player available (and still an area that needed substantial improvement).



How would it have been stupid? It would've been an upgrade in the QB position likely in the very near short term based on contemporary player analyses on a team that shockingly went 11-5 despite Grossman being out. But the Bears decision to stick with Grossman rather than accept a gift haunted us if not that immediate season, but definitely midterm and longterm, and it all stemmed from the Bears overvaluing the guy they drafted previously and not wanting the optics of making a sudden change.

We hadn’t seen the guy we drafted in the first round play a full season yet, still thought he had upside, but we should have drafted a QB 4th overall just in case he stunk?

Come on.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

And the last one hit a grand, so let's move the last few posts over here to a new topic.

Old topic was here:

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/bears-and-nfl-talk-thread-liv-khalil-macks-a-bear.2510463/

 

[AmericanDream]

Not looking for a position doesn't mean you should preclude consideration of it when a shockingly attractive prospect is somehow available to you. I'm not using hindsight here, I honestly don't think a single scout or news outlet remotely projected Grossman nearly as highly as Rodgers, even with the benefit of Grossman having a few years of development in the Bears organization.

And I'm not talking about a situation like the Browns just drafting QBs left and right and failing time and time again, I'm talking about being gifted an obvious upgrade by all reasonable metrics based on the information available at the time and deciding to pass on that because they had other areas of need rather than going after the best player available (and still an area that needed substantial improvement).



How would it have been stupid? It would've been an upgrade in the QB position likely in the very near short term based on contemporary player analyses on a team that shockingly went 11-5 despite Grossman being out. But the Bears decision to stick with Grossman rather than accept a gift haunted us if not that immediate season, but definitely midterm and longterm, and it all stemmed from the Bears overvaluing the guy they drafted previously and not wanting the optics of making a sudden change.

I respectively disagree and say of course you are...if Grossman had lets say a Jay Cutler career with the Bears, we wouldn't even be talking about Rodgers period. The only reason why we are discussing this is one QB faded away while the other became a star - that is hindsight IMO.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Jake Plummer was coming off of a season where he put up a 65 QB rating and had 20 interceptions compared to 18 touchdowns.

Get out of here with your facts!

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Jake Plummer was coming off of a season where he put up a 65 QB rating and had 20 interceptions compared to 18 touchdowns.

Still was upgrade over what Bears had and his 2002 season and there was reason he was top FA despite his flaws

His coaching in Arizona was awful and most experts said with real coaching he was a player. Shanahan proved them right

Also no matter how poorly Jake played he was still an upgrade over Kordell who had lost his #1 job multiple times in Pittsburgh and was limited as a QB

And lets not forget Rex had plenty of question marks about him and many didn't think he was a 1st round QB

 

[No Fun Shogun]

We hadn’t seen the guy we drafted in the first round play a full season yet, still thought he had upside, but we should have drafted a QB 4th overall just in case he stunk?

Come on.

His ceiling was still projected as lower by essentially everybody and the point you brought up also belabors the point that Grossman could've been viewed as injury prone already as of 2005 (though I think that wasn't the case as time progressed). Our early draft slot shouldn't have precluded that.

I respectively disagree and say of course you are...if Grossman had lets say a Jay Cutler career with the Bears, we wouldn't even be talking about Rodgers period. The only reason why we are discussing this is one QB faded away while the other became a star - that is hindsight IMO.

Well, if he did have a Cutler career, people would've hated Grossman even more even as a better QB, but I get you point. I would say that people weren't projecting Grossman at that level and I think it is a fair conversation to have when the reason given for not going after Rodgers was because they already had Grossman, meaning an overvalue of an asset and a lack of willingness to make a move because the optics of picking a QB in the first round again would've looked off in the couple days that followed a draft. That's not hindsight, that's criticizing a decision based on the information available at the time.

 

[RayP]

I think my favorite part about this argument is if we even did draft Rodgers there is no doubt in my mind we’d have ruined him and he’d be out of the league by now too.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Still was upgrade over what Bears had and his 2002 season and there was reason he was top FA despite his flaws

His coaching in Arizona was awful and most experts said with real coaching he was a player. Shanahan proved them right

Also no matter how poorly Jake played he was still an upgrade over Kordell who had lost his #1 job multiple times in Pittsburgh and was limited as a QB

And lets not forget Rex had plenty of question marks about him and many didn't think he was a 1st round QB

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Also when it comes to Plummer a good comp would be Chandler in fact many people said he was better QB then what he showed in early part of career

Like Plummer he didn't get on track until 28/29 yrs old

 

[Illinihockey]

Still was upgrade over what Bears had and his 2002 season and there was reason he was top FA despite his flaws

His coaching in Arizona was awful and most experts said with real coaching he was a player. Shanahan proved them right

Also no matter how poorly Jake played he was still an upgrade over Kordell who had lost his #1 job multiple times in Pittsburgh and was limited as a QB

And lets not forget Rex had plenty of question marks about him and many didn't think he was a 1st round QB

Plummer never had an 80 rating in his entire career before going to Denver. He threw for 20+ td's 1 time, Grossman's 23 TD's would have been the 2nd most in Plummer's career

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

The past still haunts this organization

Just watch a Panthers game and watch Olsen and remember we gave that guy away!

Only a Bears SB can end this torment

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I think my favorite part about this argument is if we even didn’t draft Rodgers there is no doubt in my mind we’d have ruined him and he’d be out of the league by now too.

Heh, probably, but at least he wouldn't have been beating us like a rented mule the past decade in that timeline.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

By our luck Trubisky will bust and Kizer will become heir to Rodgers and turn into Pro Bowl QB when they hand him the keys

 

[BK]

The past still haunts this organization

Just watch a Panthers game and watch Olsen and remember we gave that guy away!

Only a Bears SB can end this torment

By our luck Trubisky will bust and Kizer will become heir to Rodgers and turn into Pro Bowl QB when they hand him the keys

How Do Thoughts and Emotions Affect Health? | Taking Charge of Your Health & Wellbeing

I am not saying you need to be an optimist or anything like that but man you need more positivity.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I can't speak for BWC, but being a pessimist about the Bears has helped me out considerably. I don't have expectations for this team just like I don't have expectations for the Illini. When they **** up, hey... par for the course. When they succeed, freaking awesome.

Not to mention that the Bears haven't really done much in my lifetime to warrant optimism. Oh, neat... two deep playoff runs in my living memory. Congrats? You're in the bottom quarter of the league probably.

And I'm a Cubs and Hawks optimist, so it's not my default setting.

 

[Kurtosis]

How Do Thoughts and Emotions Affect Health? | Taking Charge of Your Health & Wellbeing

I am not saying you need to be an optimist or anything like that but man you need more positivity.

He thrives on negativity. His favorite weather is dreary and rainy, that tells you all you need to know right there.

 

[BK]

I can't speak for BWC, but being a pessimist about the Bears has helped me out considerably. I don't have expectations for this team just like I don't have expectations for the Illini. When they **** up, hey... par for the course. When they succeed, freaking awesome.

Not to mention that the Bears haven't really done much in my lifetime to warrant optimism. Oh, neat... two deep playoff runs in my living memory. Congrats? You're in the bottom quarter of the league probably.

And I'm a Cubs and Hawks optimist, so it's not my default setting.

I am speaking more overall. It is a genuine concern as negativity is not good for your health.

 

[Illinihockey]

The past still haunts this organization

Just watch a Panthers game and watch Olsen and remember we gave that guy away!

Only a Bears SB can end this torment

Greg Olsen had 191 yards last year, might want to watch highlights of him from 3 years ago instead.