OT: BC wildfire smoke has now reached the Ottawa valley

[Stylizer1]

To be fair, I don’t think it was challenged, at least not from my perspective. I was more questioning why it was the biggest deal at the time only to no longer hear anything about it some years later. I recall the same regarding “acid rain”.

Because things that take billions of year to form can be destroyed in a matter of decades only to be fixed in a matter of years.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

Because things that take billions of year to form can be destroyed in a matter of decades only to fixed in a matter of years.

Of course, I fully agree.

My point was that it was talked about constantly, and eventually faded out. At the same time, I was quite young then and possibly didn’t pay as much attention to all of that.

 

[topshelf15]

Thankfully there only seems to be one or two climate change deniers in this thread because I'd rather not think our fanbase is comprised entirely of dimwits.

Oh please....Never said the earth isnt getting screwed over....I just dont believe its over one thing,climate change happens over anything from cutting down too many trees to using too much carbon..Or sand dredging,damning of waterways etc etc....
Some of you guys would be the first to say that slavery doesnt exsist,then you buy a 12 dollar dvd player from Walmart,and a cheap shirt....I dont need a morality lesson ,just as dont need to make believe that we arent all in it for one damn thing ...Which in the end is ourselves and our familes

 

[Engineer]

Oh please....

Says the guy who doesn't understand anything about science.

"That is the problem,all of these scientists are doing what they do which is really just guessing..."

To be fair, I don’t think it was challenged, at least not from my perspective. I was more questioning why it was the biggest deal at the time only to no longer hear anything about it some years later. I recall the same regarding “acid rain”.

The video he posted tried to claim that there was never any ozone depletion, which was definitely challenging the science behind the effect chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) cause on ozone levels.

The reason you rarely hear about the ozone hole and acid rain problems anymore is because those two problems have been nearly rectified through very successful environmental legislation.

The ozone hole problem was caused by CFCs being emitted from aerosols. CFCs would diffuse into the stratosphere and destroy the ozone. In the late 80's CFCs were heavily restricted at the Montreal Protocol, and not long after European countries banned them, and then the Montreal Protocol was strengthened in the early 90's to fully ban CFCs by 2000. The ozone levels have been recovering since the mid 2000's, and are projected to recover to 1970's levels by the end of the century. However, we might start hearing about ozone issues again, as increasing emissions have been measured to be coming from Asian countries in the past year.

Acid rain on the other hand is mainly caused by sulphur dioxide and nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions. In the USA the majority of the sulphur dioxide came from the combustion of coal. The solution to this problem was The Clean Air Act Amendments in 1990. They placed a cap and trade system on SO2 emissions for power generation facilities. The emissions dropped faster than expected, and at cheaper costs than expected. This was achieved through the use of scrubbers and other SO2 cleaning systems. NOx emissions had to be reduced as well, which was performed through low NOx-burners, which generally work by reducing the flame temperature, as the production of NOx is directly related to flame temperature (thermal NOx).

 

[coladin]

Scientists don't just take wild guesses. They aren't creationists. They go in without bias and go where the evidence leads. Totally different then guesses.

So is Pluto a planet or not?

 

[coladin]

Weird. There's so much money to be made. A vast amount of untapped potential with newer technologies.

Creations and inventions to advance ourselves are what stimulates the economy and creates jobs.

So is it science or a new industry that can be created? So, there is so much money to be made AND we can save the planet at the same time? Sounds too good to be true!

 

[topshelf15]

Says the guy who doesn't understand anything about science.

"That is the problem,all of these scientists are doing what they do which is really just guessing..."



The video he posted tried to claim that there was never any ozone depletion, which was definitely challenging the science behind the effect chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) cause on ozone levels.

The reason you rarely hear about the ozone hole and acid rain problems anymore is because those two problems have been nearly rectified through very successful environmental legislation.

The ozone hole problem was caused by CFCs being emitted from aerosols. CFCs would diffuse into the stratosphere and destroy the ozone. In the late 80's CFCs were heavily restricted at the Montreal Protocol, and not long after European countries banned them, and then the Montreal Protocol was strengthened in the early 90's to fully ban CFCs by 2000. The ozone levels have been recovering since the mid 2000's, and are projected to recover to 1970's levels by the end of the century. However, we might start hearing about ozone issues again, as increasing emissions have been measured to be coming from Asian countries in the past year.

Acid rain on the other hand is mainly caused by sulphur dioxide and nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions. In the USA the majority of the sulphur dioxide came from the combustion of coal. The solution to this problem was The Clean Air Act Amendments in 1990. They placed a cap and trade system on SO2 emissions for power generation facilities. The emissions dropped faster than expected, and at cheaper costs than expected. This was achieved through the use of scrubbers and other SO2 cleaning systems. NOx emissions had to be reduced as well, which was performed through low NOx-burners, which generally work by reducing the flame temperature, as the production of NOx is directly related to flame temperature (thermal NOx).

What about it??Is there not more than one theory???Or is it because you only want to believe what you think is right???Go ahead call me more names,tell me I dont understand....But I have heard many things ,and Iam sure ill hear many more....Everyday one theory gets thrown out the window for another....My point still stands ,greed will be the undoing of the earth....You honestly think 3rd world nations dont want what we have had for decades???People are always in it for themselves,you included ...So spare me please

 

[topshelf15]

So is it science or a new industry that can be created? So, there is so much money to be made AND we can save the planet at the same time? Sounds too good to be true!

Yep go green...Yet if they only knew ...lol

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

So is it science or a new industry that can be created? So, there is so much money to be made AND we can save the planet at the same time? Sounds too good to be true!

A lot of money can be made in new green technology, but it takes a lot of capital investment, and research and development. You also run the risk of someone else developing better tech, or stealing your tech, or coming up with something slightly different (even inferior) that customers prefer which takes over the market (VHA vs Beta comes to mind here).

Great payoff, but also massive risk. It's a whole lot easier to stick with established known money-makers like fossil fuels and coal. The way things are these days with big money stockholders and investors demanding dividends right away, instead of solid long-term growth, it's harder and harder for companies to put a lot of money into R&D. Things aren't like they used to be in the business world. Get that big profit now, and the heck with anything else.

 

[jbeck5]

So is Pluto a planet or not?

So you've just shown it's useless to carry a conversation with you regarding anything scientific.

Whether the classification of Pluto has changed or not has nothing to do with this. Pluto hasn't cleared enough of it's debris in it's orbit to be considered a planet. Big deal. Has literally nothing to do with climate change or the scientific method.

 

[jbeck5]

So is it science or a new industry that can be created? So, there is so much money to be made AND we can save the planet at the same time? Sounds too good to be true!

Do you know what science is? Through the scientific method, we invent things that create new industries that create jobs and stimulate the economy. These creations also help make life easier.

Are you Amish? I don't get the ignorance when it comes to simple science. Did you skip high school? Seriously concerning.

 

[jbeck5]

What about it??Is there not more than one theory???Or is it because you only want to believe what you think is right???Go ahead call me more names,tell me I dont understand....But I have heard many things ,and Iam sure ill hear many more....Everyday one theory gets thrown out the window for another....My point still stands ,greed will be the undoing of the earth....You honestly think 3rd world nations dont want what we have had for decades???People are always in it for themselves,you included ...So spare me please

Did you just say every day a theory gets thrown out?

Clearly you're not in the know in the scientific community.

A scientific theory is not just someone's wild hypothesis. It's the best framework explaining events using all the evidence we have at the time.

Yes, theory's can change...but don't act like they change drastically all the time. We get new pieces of information that changes the slightest bit of certain theories here and there, but It takes loads of testing, research, and evidence.

 

[topshelf15]

Did you just say every day a theory gets thrown out?

Clearly you're not in the know in the scientific community.

A scientific theory is not just someone's wild hypothesis. It's the best framework explaining events using all the evidence we have at the time.

Yes, theory's can change...but don't act like they change drastically all the time. We get new pieces of information that changes the slightest bit of certain theories here and there, but It takes loads of testing, research, and evidence.

Dont misunderstand me,scientists can and do good work for their field of study...But for every theory ,there is often another...The contradicts the first one....

Point is, nobody does anything without getting their share...Think a guy like Elon Musk ,doesnt make a boatload of cash???For pushing what he believes is the answer??

 

[jbeck5]

A scientific theory is the best current explanation for a certain natural event using current evidence and testing. There isn't 2 competing theories on one subject. Sounds like theists who claim creationism is a theory.

The theory of gravity isn't competing against other theories.

The theory of evolution isn't competing against other theories.

The germ theory of disease isn't competing against other theories.

What you're talking about is hypothesis. When there's a new discovery and we don't understand much of it yet, scientists come up with competing hypothesis. They then test it out a bunch all over the world. Scientists participate. They eventually form a theory that has been tested enough and passed

 

[topshelf15]

A scientific theory is the best current explanation for a certain natural event using current evidence and testing. There isn't 2 competing theories on one subject. Sounds like theists who claim creationism is a theory.

The theory of gravity isn't competing against other theories.

The theory of evolution isn't competing against other theories.

The germ theory of disease isn't competing against other theories.

What you're talking about is hypothesis. When there's a new discovery and we don't understand much of it yet, scientists come up with competing hypothesis. They then test it out a bunch all over the world. Scientists participate. They eventually form a theory that has been tested enough and passed

Yep get all this,the problem with it all is the human failing..Which is greed,there is nothing on earth stronger than this....Everybody that has in a shell in something that makes money ,will always defend their way of life...Or seek to better it ...

This preception of going green ,or being a climate change denier is one facilitated by people who have money to be gained from both...

Wanna change the earth,for the better ...Than how about we do it unbiasedly ??

 

[topshelf15]

Take just a look at Toronto on any given day,on the Gardener I see lots of empty trains ...Stuck in gridlock ,while almost every damn car has one person in them....But that one windmill...That cost taxpayers in huge bloated hydro rates,is really making a difference....

 

[topshelf15]

They wont and arent serious about fixing anything,they are just looking for new ways to make money of the Green crowd...Even if it means playing one off the other

 

[Engineer]

What about it??Is there not more than one theory???

Instead of repeatedly embarrassing yourself, why don't you take a day to educate yourself, or better yet, attend some courses.

Or is it because you only want to believe what you think is right???

The level of hypocrisy it takes to post something like this is out of this world.

Think a guy like Elon Musk ,doesnt make a boatload of cash???

Go meet some scientists/professors at a university, they are not all rich, actually it is much more financially prudent to go into industry than it is to stay in academia.
You're completely blinded by your uneducated bias.

Everyday one theory gets thrown out the window for another....

Factually and hilariously wrong.

Wanna change the earth,for the better ...Than how about we do it unbiasedly ??

That starts with people like you being willing to learn.

 

[topshelf15]

Instead of repeatedly embarrassing yourself, why don't you take a day to educate yourself, or better yet, attend some courses.


The level of hypocrisy it takes to post something like this is out of this world.

Go meet some scientists/professors at a university, they are not all rich, actually it is much more financially prudent to go into industry than it is to stay in academia.
You're completely blinded by your uneducated bias.

Factually and hilariously wrong.

That starts with people like you being willing to learn.

Learn what really??That people will always do and say what is best for them...I find it most hilarious that you call me uneducated ,because I dont agree with everything you are saying...And the very fact you dont take any stock into my opinion makes me wonder just how smart you are...

And this word is something maybe you should look up for yourself.....

 

[Engineer]

Learn what really??That people will always do and say what is best for them...I find it most hilarious that you call me uneducated ,because I dont agree with everything you are saying...And the very fact you dont take any stock into my opinion makes me wonder just how smart you are...

And this word is something maybe you should look up for yourself.....

You are uneducated because literally everything you have stated about the scientific method is factually wrong. Almost every single comment on the climate from you has been factually wrong. When people challenge you, you respond with laughworthy red herrings.

Do you even bother to understand what people say to you, because it is evident after multiple people have told you that you are factually wrong (read: factually, not an opinion as you so incorrectly think everything is) that you are either illiterate or being purposefully ignorant.

my opinion makes me wonder just how smart you are...

Oh don't worry, your opinion carries negative weight to me.


Why did you ignore my comment on scientists in academia? Nothing to retort as per usual, and couldn't think of a red herring?

 

[topshelf15]

You are uneducated because literally everything you have stated about the scientific method is factually wrong. Almost every single comment on the climate from you has been factually wrong. When people challenge you, you respond with laughworthy red herrings.

Do you even bother to understand what people say to you, because it is evident after multiple people have told you that you are factually wrong (read: factually, not an opinion as you so incorrectly think everything is) that you are either illiterate or being purposefully ignorant.


Oh don't worry, your opinion carries negative weight to me.

What facts??The ones you present to me ???How about real life ???You are being played just as we all are ,they arent fixing the world as you seem to think they are...

I know you want to believe you are doing the right thing,but in reality people dont give two sweet f***s about Green energy or otherwise unless there is a buck to be made off of it....You want me to believe that we as the human race one and all are going to be as one and actually be in equal standing...Then maybe you need to reexamine what exactly are your goals in life through work...

Because there are lots of people who suffer through poverty,slavery and disease ...That will never have as good as you...Iam comfortable in my own skin to realise my way of life comes at the cost of others suffering,and that for my family and my way of life Iam ok with it...Are you???Or are you and others going to keep finger wagging ,to fuel your warped sense of moral rightiousness ...While doing the exact same as me

 

[Engineer]

What facts??

That's the point. You don't post facts, you post easily proven wrong incorrect statements.

The ones you present to me ???

There have been multiple people who have presented facts to you.

You are being played just as we all are

You literally have zero understanding of the scientific world, so your opinion carries zero weight.

You are in no position to ever make such a claim, you are in no position to ever present such an opinion. You have no understanding or education whatsoever on this subject, your opinion is irrelevant.

You want me to believe that we as the human race one and all are going to be as one and actually be in equal standing..

I make a claim that you dont understand science and the climate, and you respond with a red herring. Big surprise.

Because there are lots of people who suffer through poverty,slavery and disease ...

Another red herring.

That will never have as good as you...

Red herring.

Iam comfortable in my own skin to realise my way of life comes at the cost of others suffering,and that for my family and my way of life Iam ok with it...Are you???

Red herring.

Or are you and others going to keep finger wagging ,to fuel your warped sense of moral rightiousness ...

Red herring.


Maybe constantly repeating myself and presenting all of your fallacies to you will make you understand how ridiculous your comments are.

 

[topshelf15]

That's the point. You don't post facts, you post easily proven wrong incorrect statements.

There have been multiple people who have presented facts to you.

You literally have zero understanding of the scientific world, so your opinion carries zero weight.

You are in no position to ever make such a claim, you are in no position to ever present such an opinion. You have no understanding or education whatsoever on this subject, your opinion is irrelevant.

I make a claim that you dont understand science and the climate, and you respond with a red herring. Big surprise.

Another red herring.

Red herring.

Red herring.

Red herring.


Maybe constantly repeating myself and presenting all of your fallacies to you will make you understand how ridiculous your comments are.

And judging by your responses you have little in the way of actual life knowledge,other than what you learned in a classroom....But hey keep putting your fingers in your ears and screaming at the top of your lungs,and go away stomping and name calling...Because you dont like what you hear

 

[Engineer]

And judging by your responses you have little in the way of actual life knowledge,other than what you learned in a classroom....But hey keep putting your fingers in your ears and screaming at the top of your lungs,and go away stomping and name calling...Because you dont like what you hear

This is the argument that begun this "discussion" and you have been responding to: "Says the guy who doesn't understand anything about science.".

I know a straw man fallacy is easier to argue than the actual argument, but it remains irrelevant.

 

[topshelf15]

This is what you are responding to: "Says the guy who doesn't understand anything about science."

I know a straw man fallacy is easier to argue than the actual argument, but it remains irrelevant.

According to who???YOU???Where have I said that earth isnt in trouble???Please find it???Because not once have I said this....The earth isnt in trouble by climate change more, than the humans that actually have the power to change it...

Iam not a f***en idiot denier,climate change is hoax pusher as you seem to have me painted out to be ....Iam a f***en realist ....You want green house gas to go down???How about we limit all vehicles to no more than the speed limit,as well as having them all have the same small fuel effecient engines...Or maybe limit the actual amount of vehicles to no more than one per household???

Tell me why this wont happen??