Battle of the 16s-Marcel Dionne vs. Bobby Clarke

wetcoast

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Bathgate's record in NY is very similar to Dionne's record, yes.


Actually in comparison to his team mates Bathgate fares much worse than Dionne playoff wise.

55-56 he is tied for 2nd in NYR playoff scoring along with 3 other players 1 point behind Bill Gadsby.

56-57 he is tied for 6th along with 3 other players

57-58 he leads the NYR with 8 points in 6 games, second place had 6 points.

61-62 he is once again tied for 6th along with another player.
 

wetcoast

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this thread pretends butch goring wasn't dionne's second line center for four years and didn't immediately go on to win cups as someone else's second line center after he left

I'm sure that many players would have done quite well getting traded to the NYI in 79-80 as they embarked on their 4 year dynasty run.

Dionne BTW outscored Goring in 3 of those 4 playoff runs and they were both doughnut in the other 2 game series.
 

LeBlondeDemon10

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One thing that sticks out for me is Dionne's 10 SH goals in I think 74-75. This was before SHG became sexy in the 80's. Now I'm not saying Dionne was better than Clarke at killing penalties, but maybe there is more to Dionne than his ES and PP numbers. That year was before my time so if anyone could qualify why Dionne had that outlier stat and his performance as a penalty killer would be insightful.
 

wetcoast

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as a passenger. He finished 8th, 15th and 9th in scoring on the Islanders teams.

and before you say "but Smythe"...his Smythe is a flat out joke. He was 4th in scoring and got outscored by Bossy by 15 points in those playoffs. In fact, Bossy only had 3 fewer goals than Goring had points. Bossy led the league in playoff goals, assists and points. And despite Goring's very good Finals of 7 points, Bossy outscored him there too with 8 points.


But Goring wore the same helmet for something like 20 years......
 

wetcoast

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My impression is that it was never really about support scoring. Aside from Goring, Dionne was also skating with Charlie Simmer and Dave Taylor. Guys who were certainly boosted by playing with Dionne, but who were still pretty O.K. players in their own right.

To me the issue is the Kings as a whole were just not a well constructed team. While Dionne was at his Hart-contending peak, who was their best defenseman? Gary Sargent? Jerry Korab? Doug Halward? The simply irresistible Robert Palmer? That's not exactly a murderer's row. And in net, he got a taste of late Rogie Vachon, but his peak coincided with the Mario Lessard years. And after that, the living nightmare that was playing in front of Gary Laskoski.

If one game sums up the Dionne-era Kings: in 1981, LA was a 99-point team which was by far their best record with Dionne. They get matched up with a 74-point Rangers team and you have to think this is Dionne's window to do something in the playoffs. They narrowly drop the first game of a 5-game series. Game 2, Dionne has a goal and an assist in a win. So the spotlight is on the crucial third game.

First period, Dionne picks up an assist 1:13 into the game for a 1-0 lead. Lessard almost immediately lets in a softie from behind the net to make it 1-1. Dionne picked up a second assist at 2:48 to make it 2-1. Clearly you've got a guy out there generating points at a pace that should get his team over the hump, right?

Five minutes later, the Rangers score the first of NINE straight goals. Final score 10-3. Now, I freely admit I have not watched this game and cannot say the blame wasn't on Dionne. But nine straight goals. It's inconceivable to me that the guy who had just reeled off 4 points in under 60 minutes was suddenly so ineffective that he caused his team to surrender nine straight goals. Jay Wells and Rick Chartraw were on the ice for eight of those, which has to be some sort of record.

So you turn your attention to the start of the next game, right?



This video is handy because it starts with Game 3 highlights, so you can see what a hot burning mess the Kings were defensively and the kind of performance they were carrying into the elimination game. Then you pick up in the first minute of Game 4, at 1:20, and it just speaks for itself.

Rangers goalie Steve Baker was quoted the next day: "We tried to exploit their defensemen. Except for (Dave) Lewis, none of their guys has any mobility whatsoever. ... Maybe [Korab] was tired, but a couple of times it looked like he was kind of cruising."

And you'd think that would be the most painful quote of the postgame. But that's before you hear from a Marcel Dionne who is so pissed off that the frustration is still clear as a bell nearly 40 years later:

"When I don't have the puck, we're not going to win. We don't move the puck the way they do. They have defensemen like Greschner and Vadnais who can come right up the middle and move the puck. All we do is move it along the boards. I never had the puck once all night where I got a pass from a defenseman and could just go. Everybody is going to say, 'Dionne didn't score,' but how do they expect me to when I don't have the puck? I'd be standing there, waiting for it, ready to give it to my wingers. What am I going to do, when 30 or 40 seconds would go by? You've got to have it flowing."

That sequence of events, which are the closest thing Dionne ever had to a "chance" for playoff success, kind of sums it all up.


To the part in bold, that's just awesome.

 
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vadim sharifijanov

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I'm sure that many players would have done quite well getting traded to the NYI in 79-80 as they embarked on their 4 year dynasty run.

Dionne BTW outscored Goring in 3 of those 4 playoff runs and they were both doughnut in the other 2 game series.

of course dionne outscored goring. he's a hall of fame level superstar scoring center. the point i'm trying to make here is that when we talk about dionne underperforming in the playoffs, the argument that it was easy to key in on him because there was no one behind him to carry the mail doesn't hold water because he had a HOVG-level/dynasty-level number two center.

and sure, i'm sure there are guys who could have won the '80 and '81 cups as the islanders' number two center in goring's place. but they are all really good players, guys like ken linseman, pierre mondou, thomas gradin. again, the point is the "dionne played with nobody" argument is lazy and doesn't hold water because there was a time when dionne had a quality two-way guy who was good enough to anchor a second line through half of a dynasty. and he still didn't do anything more in the playoffs than when he didn't have anyone behind him (1980 and '81, when he had his two best statistical seasons but who the f were his number two centers? i literally don't know who he had between goring and nicholls, but i can promise you whoever they were they wouldn't have "done quite well getting traded to the NYI in 79-80 as they embarked on their 4 year dynasty run.")
 

Professor What

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I don't have an answer ready for this yet because it just came to my mind while I was catching up on this thread, but what do you guys think things would have looked like if you swapped Dionne and Clarke, with Dionne playing for those Flyers teams and Clarke playing for those Kings teams?
 

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I don't have an answer ready for this yet because it just came to my mind while I was catching up on this thread, but what do you guys think things would have looked like if you swapped Dionne and Clarke, with Dionne playing for those Flyers teams and Clarke playing for those Kings teams?
Interesting question. As talented as Dionne was--Clarke was the straw that stirred the drink in Philly. Without Clarke, the Flyers don't beat the Bruins in 74... but maybe edge Buffalo in 75. They still lose to Montreal in 76... but maybe Dionne makes a difference vs. the Isles in 80?
 

tinyzombies

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Please....

So you think it's ok the game devolved into no rules hockey? I can't watch games from back then anymore - that's garbage compared to today's hockey.

Clarke was an SOB, but also an extremely cerebral player (don't need to go into it, you all know the deal).

Someone did a closer look at Dionne's playoff performances though and he was good when it mattered. But Clarke was the best post-Orr all-around player in the world for a few years.
 
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wetcoast

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of course dionne outscored goring. he's a hall of fame level superstar scoring center. the point i'm trying to make here is that when we talk about dionne underperforming in the playoffs, the argument that it was easy to key in on him because there was no one behind him to carry the mail doesn't hold water because he had a HOVG-level/dynasty-level number two center.

and sure, i'm sure there are guys who could have won the '80 and '81 cups as the islanders' number two center in goring's place. but they are all really good players, guys like ken linseman, pierre mondou, thomas gradin. again, the point is the "dionne played with nobody" argument is lazy and doesn't hold water because there was a time when dionne had a quality two-way guy who was good enough to anchor a second line through half of a dynasty. and he still didn't do anything more in the playoffs than when he didn't have anyone behind him (1980 and '81, when he had his two best statistical seasons but who the f were his number two centers? i literally don't know who he had between goring and nicholls, but i can promise you whoever they were they wouldn't have "done quite well getting traded to the NYI in 79-80 as they embarked on their 4 year dynasty run.")


Are you really using a single player in Butch Goring to say that those Kings teams weren't well constructed at all for the playoffs.

Also you need to look deeper at the NYI as outside of their big 4 in their prime (5 if you want to include Billy Smith) they had incredible depth in players like Bourne, Nystrom, Persson, Morrow ect.....and John Tonelli who actually led that dyansty in ESP during thsoe 4 playoff years.

Sure Goring was a great addition but man those NYI would probably have won those 4 SC's with even a replacement level center instead of him that is how dominant they were in that 4 year run.

Those NYI teams simply dominated all others in that 4 year stretch.
 

Dennis Bonvie

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So you think it's ok the game devolved into no rules hockey? I can't watch games from back then anymore - that's garbage compared to today's hockey.

Clarke was an SOB, but also an extremely cerebral player (don't need to go into it, you all know the deal).

Someone did a closer look at Dionne's playoff performances though and he was good when it mattered. But Clarke was the best post-Orr all-around player in the world for a few years.

Perhaps The History of Hockey site is not the place for you.
 
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vadim sharifijanov

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Are you really using a single player in Butch Goring to say that those Kings teams weren't well constructed at all for the playoffs.

well no i’m not doing that. i certainly am not suggesting that dionne should have won four cups like the islanders did, or even made one finals.

i’m just trying to add more nuance to the discussion, and comparing the two eras of his LA teams, vs only concentrating on the taylor/simmer and no second line years.

most provocative, imo, are the two years that earlier LA core took the bruins to seven and six games. the team as a whole performed better, and dionne’s stats were fine, but i still want to ask of those years this question posed up upthread:

IMO, the biggest knock on Dionne is how he performed compared to the rest of his roster. In the regular season, he regularly led his team in scoring by huge margins, something that no longer happened in the playoffs.

i haven’t looked into it yet but i want to look at the game logs. there was one year goring scored two OT goals against the bruins and LA got shutout three times and blown out/all but shutout in the other loss. curious, given that goring was very good defensively and was a guy you could give tough matchups to to free your scorers, the home/away splits.

anyway imo the most reasonable accounting is this:

My impression is that it was never really about support scoring. Aside from Goring, Dionne was also skating with Charlie Simmer and Dave Taylor. Guys who were certainly boosted by playing with Dionne, but who were still pretty O.K. players in their own right.

To me the issue is the Kings as a whole were just not a well constructed team. [snip]
 

JackSlater

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I don't have an answer ready for this yet because it just came to my mind while I was catching up on this thread, but what do you guys think things would have looked like if you swapped Dionne and Clarke, with Dionne playing for those Flyers teams and Clarke playing for those Kings teams?

No championships for either, as LA didn't have the depth and Dionne couldn't compensate for Philadelphia's lack of a top end defenceman. Interesting to think about how Philadelphia's identity might have turned out with Dionne as the team's centrepiece. Clarke fit the team so well, and vice versa, and I do not think that Dionne fills that role nearly as well even if he is an all time great as Clarke is.
 
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Jim MacDonald

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**If cool to ask without "sidetracking" or "hijacking" the thread**

I've seen the thread being a lot pro Bobby Clarke with references to his defensive acumen/play. As he was before my time, and I'm thinking of "defensive acumen" skills etc, Was Clarke excellent on faceoffs? (the guy Philly wanted out there to take a key defensive zone faceoff late in the game)? Did he have good instincts? (good at poke-checking, playing the body, intercepting passes etc)? What do you guys love that Clarke had in his toolbox?

Apologize if this sidetracks thread too much and understandable if my post is deleted. Thank you!
 
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tinyzombies

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**If cool to ask without "sidetracking" or "hijacking" the thread**

I've seen the thread being a lot pro Bobby Clarke with references to his defensive acumen/play. As he was before my time, and I'm thinking of "defensive acumen" skills etc, Was Clarke excellent on faceoffs? (the guy Philly wanted out there to take a key defensive zone faceoff late in the game)? Did he have good instincts? (good at poke-checking, playing the body, intercepting passes etc)? What do you guys love that Clarke had in his toolbox?

Apologize if this sidetracks thread too much and understandable if my post is deleted. Thank you!

Incredible faceoff guy. Not the greatest skater and not the biggest, but the hardest worker and was strong; could anticipate, always in position. With the puck: great vision, creative, scored huge goals. One of those guys who always does the unexpected. Best player in the league for a couple years because of his all-around play. Excellent leader. Also one of the dirtiest players in the league and should have been in the box a LOT more as should his teammates, but I digress. What he did to Kharlamov is one of the most disgraceful things ever done on ice.
 
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Hockey Outsider

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**If cool to ask without "sidetracking" or "hijacking" the thread**

I've seen the thread being a lot pro Bobby Clarke with references to his defensive acumen/play. As he was before my time, and I'm thinking of "defensive acumen" skills etc, Was Clarke excellent on faceoffs? (the guy Philly wanted out there to take a key defensive zone faceoff late in the game)? Did he have good instincts? (good at poke-checking, playing the body, intercepting passes etc)? What do you guys love that Clarke had in his toolbox?

Apologize if this sidetracks thread too much and understandable if my post is deleted. Thank you!

He was outstanding on faceoffs. Looking at the results of the various coaches' and players' polls that have been collected here, he was ranked the best player on faceoffs in the 1976, 1979 and 1981 polls, 2nd (to Stan Mikita) in 1974, and was 4th (behind Trottier, Jarvis and Pederson) in 1984.

A lot of his success was due to either his work ethic or his hockey sense. He was named the hardest worker in each of the 1974, 1976 and 1979 polls, and was runner-up (to John Tonelli) in 1984. He had to work hard to prove he could keep a spot in the NHL due to his diabetes (he was drafted 17th but almost certainly would have been top five if not for those concerns). In terms of best hockey sense or smartest player categories - he was 3rd in 1974 (to Mikita and Orr) and 4th in 1979 (to Lafleur, Trottier, and Ratelle).

Clarke gets underrated for two reasons. One is because he was a very dirty player (and has done some questionable things as a GM) - but you can't argue with his results. The other reason is a lot of his best traits (ie general hockey sense, work ethic) aren't as obvious as a more "physical" trait like size (he was slightly below average for his era), speed (solid but not great), shot power (nothing special), etc.
 

Jim MacDonald

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He was outstanding on faceoffs. Looking at the results of the various coaches' and players' polls that have been collected here, he was ranked the best player on faceoffs in the 1976, 1979 and 1981 polls, 2nd (to Stan Mikita) in 1974, and was 4th (behind Trottier, Jarvis and Pederson) in 1984.

A lot of his success was due to either his work ethic or his hockey sense. He was named the hardest worker in each of the 1974, 1976 and 1979 polls, and was runner-up (to John Tonelli) in 1984. He had to work hard to prove he could keep a spot in the NHL due to his diabetes (he was drafted 17th but almost certainly would have been top five if not for those concerns). In terms of best hockey sense or smartest player categories - he was 3rd in 1974 (to Mikita and Orr) and 4th in 1979 (to Lafleur, Trottier, and Ratelle).

Clarke gets underrated for two reasons. One is because he was a very dirty player (and has done some questionable things as a GM) - but you can't argue with his results. The other reason is a lot of his best traits (ie general hockey sense, work ethic) aren't as obvious as a more "physical" trait like size (he was slightly below average for his era), speed (solid but not great), shot power (nothing special), etc.

Thank you for the feedback! Love the information on the coaches' and players' polls Outsider!! So cool to learn about the faceoff ability!
 

Boxscore

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**If cool to ask without "sidetracking" or "hijacking" the thread**

I've seen the thread being a lot pro Bobby Clarke with references to his defensive acumen/play. As he was before my time, and I'm thinking of "defensive acumen" skills etc, Was Clarke excellent on faceoffs? (the guy Philly wanted out there to take a key defensive zone faceoff late in the game)? Did he have good instincts? (good at poke-checking, playing the body, intercepting passes etc)? What do you guys love that Clarke had in his toolbox?

Apologize if this sidetracks thread too much and understandable if my post is deleted. Thank you!
Others alluded to the elements of Clarke's game that made him such a well-rounded player, but there was another side to Clarke that was immeasurable by stats--he was the greatest "team player" in professional sports IMO. This guy was an owner, manager, and coach's dream. He literally would do anything to help his team win and sometimes it crossed lines (re: Kharlamov in 72). The win-at-all-costs ferociousness that Clarke displayed on the ice is often talked about but the incredible stuff he did off the ice was not.

In the 70's, Clarke was, generally speaking, the only Flyers player who would be paid to endorse products off the ice--this is how he made a lot of extra money. Clarke was known to take the endorsement money he received and round up the rest of the players and treat them all to dinner and cocktails. He loved his team being together. He would also secretly make sure some of that endorsement money went to his teammates who needed it, as salaries back then were--on average--feeble to what they are today. When negotiating contracts, there were times that Clarke told management to take his bonus money and divide it among his teammates--at the time, the players had no idea he was doing this--they just thought they were getting a "team bonus". It wasn't until many years later they realized it was Clarke's doing.

Clarke was absolutely beloved by his teammates, the coaches, managers, and most of all, the owner of the Flyers, Ed Snider--who loved him like a son. He was the first player on the ice, the hardest worker in practice, and the last player off the ice. He was not only the "Captain" by trade, he was the legit leader of the team. On Clarke's team, the players were thick as thieves--they played for each other, fought for each other, spent most of their free time together, had meals together, and drank together. They were a pack of wolves, and Bobby Clarke was the ringleader. If another team's player even looked crooked at Clarke, they paid a hefty price.

My dad told me a story about a Flyers game he was at in the mid-70's at the Spectrum--Clarke was backchecking on a player and hooking away at him. The player, not knowing it was Clarke, spun around and whacked Clarke in the face with his stick out of anger. Within seconds, three Flyers attacked this player and beat him horribly. Eventually, everyone on the ice was fighting, and the player who hit Clarke was being guided to the locker room for repairs--he was a bloody mess. My dad said the trainers put two white towels over his entire face and by the time he made it to the tunnel area, the towels were bright red. Bottom line--you didn't take liberties with Clarke.

Clarke was so beloved, the owner Ed Snider gave him a lifetime contract. And, another testament to just how beloved Clarke was in Philadelphia, was apparent during the unfortunate "Lindros saga." Lindros was the "savior" in Philly--and without question the biggest fan-favorite since Clarke. At that point, Clarke was on his 2nd stint as GM with the Flyers, and Lindros was right in his prime--packing seats on a nightly basis. When the war between Clarke and the Lindros family ensued--the large majority of fans backed Clarke, even though they loved Lindros. To Flyers fans, Clarke was a demigod and rightfully so--because no matter what, everything he did, he did it to try to help the Flyers win, and he pulled no punches. This man bled orange.

Ex-Flyers Mark Howe and Brian Propp told me a story about Clarke and Keenan in the mid-80's. The Flyers were losing in Detroit to a sucky Wings team at the time. After the 2nd period--Keenan comes into the room and says to the players, "I spoke with Clarkie. If you come back and win this game, when we get to LA you can have 2 days off with no practice." The Flyers ended up destroying the Wings in the 3rd period to win the game. After the game, Keenan came in and said, "Alright, you have your vacation, but everyone needs to throw $100 on the table first. If you're on vacation, so are the trainers and equipment guys." Keenan took all the money and gave it to the Flyers trainers and helpers and told them to enjoy themselves in LA.

I asked them who's idea it was to throw up the $100 and they both emphatically said, "Clarkie's." They followed up by sharing stories of the things Clarke would do for players on the team that were unheard of--in terms of helping them, helping their families, etc. Howe and Propp talked about Clarke and Mr. Snider like they walked on water. You could see it in their eyes--both of them would have taken a bullet for either man.

Clarke was a special, special, player and teammate. He was the ultimate leader (in the true sense of the word). If I were building a team from scratch, Bobby Clarke would be my captain over anyone--including Messier, Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Chelios, Toews, Beliveau, Mikita, etc.

Here's some videos of Clarke that will help paint the picture. In the second one, the 2:20 mark sums up everything Clarke was about in one play--where he takes a rocket slap shot off the head from Reggie Leach. They didn't call Reggie "The Riffle" for nothing--the man could fire the biscuit as well as anyone in his era. Clarke takes the shot off the head, shrugs it off, taps Leach on the bottom with his stick (to say, "it's okay") and heads back, unphased, with blood dripping down his face. This was Bobby Clarke. Ironically, that was the same game where he later scored his 1,000th point and you could almost see the agony on his face while he teammates were patting him on the head (where he took the slap shot earlier).





 
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BadgerBruce

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Others alluded to the elements of Clarke's game that made him such a well-rounded player, but there was another side to Clarke that was immeasurable by stats--he was the greatest "team player" in professional sports IMO. This guy was an owner, manager, and coach's dream. He literally would do anything to help his team win and sometimes it crossed lines (re: Kharlamov in 72). The win-at-all-costs ferociousness that Clarke displayed on the ice is often talked about but the incredible stuff he did off the ice was not.

In the 70's, Clarke was, generally speaking, the only Flyers player who would be paid to endorse products off the ice--this is how he made a lot of extra money. Clarke was known to take the endorsement money he received and round up the rest of the players and treat them all to dinner and cocktails. He loved his team being together. He would also secretly make sure some of that endorsement money went to his teammates who needed it, as salaries back then were--on average--feeble to what they are today. When negotiating contracts, there were times that Clarke told management to take his bonus money and divide it among his teammates--at the time, the players had no idea he was doing this--they just thought they were getting a "team bonus". It wasn't until many years later they realized it was Clarke's doing.

Clarke was absolutely beloved by his teammates, the coaches, managers, and most of all, the owner of the Flyers, Ed Snider--who loved him like a son. He was the first player on the ice, the hardest worker in practice, and the last player off the ice. He was not only the "Captain" by trade, he was the legit leader of the team. On Clarke's team, the players were thick as thieves--they played for each other, fought for each other, spent most of their free time together, had meals together, and drank together. They were a pack of wolves, and Bobby Clarke was the ringleader. If another team's player even looked crooked at Clarke, they paid a hefty price.

My dad told me a story about a Flyers game he was at in the mid-70's at the Spectrum--Clarke was backchecking on a player and hooking away at him. The player, not knowing it was Clarke, spun around and whacked Clarke in the face with his stick out of anger. Within seconds, three Flyers attacked this player and beat him horribly. Eventually, everyone on the ice was fighting, and the player who hit Clarke was being guided to the locker room for repairs--he was a bloody mess. My dad said the trainers put two white towels over his entire face and by the time he made it to the tunnel area, the towels were bright red. Bottom line--you didn't take liberties with Clarke.

Clarke was so beloved, the owner Ed Snider gave him a lifetime contract. And, another testament to just how beloved Clarke was in Philadelphia, was apparent during the unfortunate "Lindros saga." Lindros was the "savior" in Philly--and without question the biggest fan-favorite since Clarke. At that point, Clarke was on his 2nd stint as GM with the Flyers, and Lindros was right in his prime--packing seats on a nightly basis. When the war between Clarke and the Lindros family ensued--the large majority of fans backed Clarke, even though they loved Lindros. To Flyers fans, Clarke was a demigod and rightfully so--because no matter what, everything he did, he did it to try to help the Flyers win, and he pulled no punches. This man bled orange.

Ex-Flyers Mark Howe and Brian Propp told me a story about Clarke and Keenan in the mid-80's. The Flyers were losing in Detroit to a sucky Wings team at the time. After the 2nd period--Keenan comes into the room and says to the players, "I spoke with Clarkie. If you come back and win this game, when we get to LA you can have 2 days off with no practice." The Flyers ended up destroying the Wings in the 3rd period to win the game. After the game, Keenan came in and said, "Alright, you have your vacation, but everyone needs to throw $100 on the table first. If you're on vacation, so are the trainers and equipment guys." Keenan took all the money and gave it to the Flyers trainers and helpers and told them to enjoy themselves in LA.

I asked them who's idea it was to throw up the $100 and they both emphatically said, "Clarkie's." They followed up by sharing stories of the things Clarke would do for players on the team that were unheard of--in terms of helping them, helping their families, etc. Howe and Propp talked about Clarke and Mr. Snider like they walked on water. You could see it in their eyes--both of them would have taken a bullet for either man.

Clarke was a special, special, player and teammate. He was the ultimate leader (in the true sense of the word). If I were building a team from scratch, Bobby Clarke would be my captain over anyone--including Messier, Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Chelios, Toews, Beliveau, Mikita, etc.

Here's some videos of Clarke that will help paint the picture. In the second one, the 2:20 mark sums up everything Clarke was about in one play--where he takes a rocket slap shot off the head from Reggie Leach. They didn't call Reggie "The Riffle" for nothing--the man could fire the biscuit as well as anyone in his era. Clarke takes the shot off the head, shrugs it off, taps Leach on the bottom with his stick (to say, "it's okay") and heads back, unphased, with blood dripping down his face. This was Bobby Clarke. Ironically, that was the same game where he later scored his 1,000th point and you could almost see the agony on his face while he teammates were patting him on the head (where he took the slap shot earlier).







The first few years of a player’s professional career are just so crucial to his development and maturation. Ownership, management, the coaching staff — all three play key roles in creating the kind of environment that helps a young player become the best version of himself possible. It’s part art, part science, and part luck, but in my experience true greatness is cultivated.

When I think of Bobby Clarke, I see Ed Snider, Keith Allen and Fred Shero.

When I think of Marcel Dionne, I see Bruce Norris and the Darkness that was (Ned) Harkness.

Sometimes, the NHL is such an unfair place. Clarke was very quickly seen as a player with the potential to embody the shared vision of Snider, Allen and Shero. He was guided, coached, led. He became the best version of himself and a mirror of the values the club’s braintrust embraced. Right place, right time, right people.

Dionne did not get any of that.

When he joined the Red Wings in 1971, everything was horrible. The owner was a convicted felon and a despicable human being. The new general manager, Ned Harkness, was given the job after the players presented a petition to the previous general manager, Sid Abel, to have Harkness removed as the coach. Norris did remove Harkness from the bench — he fired Abel and promoted the lunatic to GM!

Ask yourself this question: if Bobby Clarke had spent the first four years of his career in that dysfunctional Dead Things asylum and then escaped to join the Flyers at age 24, would he have become the type of player and leader we know he was? I think the odds would have been stacked against this outcome.

When Dionne left Detroit after four years and joined the Kings in 1975, Bobby Clarke was already the captain of a 2-time Stanley Cup winning club that would reach a third consecutive Cup final series by the end of the season. He was just 2 years older than Dionne but had been so expertly groomed and shaped. The dye had been cast.

Too often, Marcel Dionne is evaluated within the context of his years in LA and his formative seasons in Detroit are overlooked. I do not know if he had it within him to become a leader of men who achieve collective greatness. That’s not on his resume. But in my view, the Detroit Red Wings failed in every way imaginable to cultivate him the way the Flyers cultivated Clarke, and that is truly a shame.
 

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