Battle Creek FHL: 0-24 record, averaging 333 in attendance

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ForsbergForever

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I don't see how they can survive another 40 games or however many are left in the season. They just lost a game 14-1 to Carolina and are being outscored on the season 109-26. I think the Federal League may have been a bit overzealous in their big expansion this season.
 

CANADIENSFAN90

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I don't see how they can survive another 40 games or however many are left in the season. They just lost a game 14-1 to Carolina and are being outscored on the season 109-26. I think the Federal League may have been a bit overzealous in their big expansion this season.
109-26 wow
 

Barclay Donaldson

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But we need Class A hockey! The FHL is finally legitimizing itself!

Besides maybe Macon and Mentor, every other single-A hockey team is doing well. Don't use Battle Creek as part of your reason to continue that unholy crusade against minor league hockey. The SPHL is also unaffiliated single-A hockey, and they're a model of stability. The Fed has over half the league averaging more than 1000 people per game at the gate. They have two others who are at capacity, but are just in small barns. Mentor and Battle Creek are the outliers, which is unarguably a significant improvement on where the league was 5 years ago.

The Fed is slowly getting better. Battle Creek is the only complete gongshow in a 10 team league, and they'll soon be joined by big markets like Bloomington, with Memphis and others aren't far behind. It isn't anywhere near perfect and is still glorified beer league, but if it exposes people to hockey who would otherwise have no interest in it, then there is at least a little bit of good behind it.
 

JMCx4

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I don't see how they can survive another 40 games or however many are left in the season. ...
Per the League's June press release: "All teams will play between 56 and 60 games this season." So an unbalanced schedule is part of their business model. Meanwhile, the F(P)HL is well practiced in dealing with franchises like BC. They turn them into a "traveling team" which can be swiftly forgotten with a League schedule shuffle. Barry Soskin will be undeterred by any ultimate failure of individual franchises, as long as they aren't his.
 

JMCx4

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... The Fed is slowly getting better. Battle Creek is the only complete gongshow in a 10 team league, and they'll soon be joined by big markets like Bloomington, with Memphis and others aren't far behind. It isn't anywhere near perfect and is still glorified beer league, but if it exposes people to hockey who would otherwise have no interest in it, then there is at least a little bit of good behind it.
While I agree with your basic sentiments, the placement of an FPHL franchise in Bloomington, IL raises serious concerns to me based on that town's faltering history with minor pro & junior hockey. A more affordable business model won't be all that's needed to sustain a hockey presence in B-N. It's gonna take a long-term commitment, which is a behavior foreign to Soskin & Kirnan. Short stays have alienated the hockey fan core in the area, and another such failure will present a further negative example that "exposes people to hockey who would otherwise have no interest in it." Bloomington hockey may not be a gong show, but their bell has been tolled at least one too many times.
 
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Barclay Donaldson

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While I agree with your basic sentiments, the placement of an FPHL franchise in Bloomington, IL raises serious concerns to me based on that town's faltering history with minor pro & junior hockey. A more affordable business model won't be all that's needed to sustain a hockey presence in B-N. It's gonna take a long-term commitment, which is a behavior foreign to Soskin & Kirnan. Short stays have alienated the hockey fan core in the area, and another such failure will present a further negative example that "exposes people to hockey who would otherwise have no interest in it." Bloomington hockey may not be a gong show, but their bell has been tolled at least one too many times.

There are rightfully concerns with the market, as they've burned through a number of teams over the past two decades. However, if they even manage to match the horrid attendance that their old USHL team had, they'll be well into the black. If they push it into the mid-2000s thier SPHL team had, then they'll be doing very well for themselves. Winston-Salem is another market people thought was burned to the ground, and while it's a young franchise, Soskin looks like he's in there for the long haul and doing things as right as you can in the Fed.

And if it turns out that B-N has closed their book with hockey, then they lose their Fed team. Not the end of the world, and wouldn't really surprise anyone. But if they have their long-time hardcore return once they see that the Fed is their last chance for hockey, then they'll join the company of Elmira and Port Huron. Because honestly this is the only time the Fed should go to a market: a last resort when they're incapable of supporting any other kind of hockey.
 

JMCx4

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... And if it turns out that B-N has closed their book with hockey, then they lose their Fed team. Not the end of the world, and wouldn't really surprise anyone. But if they have their long-time hardcore return once they see that the Fed is their last chance for hockey, then they'll join the company of Elmira and Port Huron. Because honestly this is the only time the Fed should go to a market: a last resort when they're incapable of supporting any other kind of hockey.
IMO, the sting of losing pro hockey (three times) and then a USHL franchise has taken its final toll on B-N hockey as a viable entertainment business, no matter the latest scheme to make it work. But I'll do my part to stir up some of the ashes by attending the two FPHL neutral site games in January, and wish them a long life in the Twin Cities.
 

JMCx4

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Back to the Battle Creek topic, can anyone tell me (or intelligently speculate) why the FPHL believed that situation would work in the first place?
 

mk80

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Back to the Battle Creek topic, can anyone tell me (or intelligently speculate) why the FPHL believed that situation would work in the first place?
At the absolute least they probably figured they could chuck in a 10th team for scheduling purposes.
 
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HisIceness

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Thats a shame, their logo is cool. Looks like something Georgia Tech would use for their Hockey club.
 

JMCx4

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Thats a shame, their logo is cool. Looks like something Georgia Tech would use for their Hockey club.
BC's looks more sinister ...

7PYQH0pH_400x400.jpg


200px-Battle_Creek_Rumble_Bees.png
 
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CrazyEddie20

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The Fed is slowly getting better. Battle Creek is the only complete gongshow in a 10 team league, and they'll soon be joined by big markets like Bloomington, with Memphis and others aren't far behind. It isn't anywhere near perfect and is still glorified beer league, but if it exposes people to hockey who would otherwise have no interest in it, then there is at least a little bit of good behind it.

Counterpoint: The Fed is a garbage league run by garbage businessmen. Just because the league is going into "big markets" doesn't mean they're doing anything right.

And what do I mean by doing things right? Let's start by properly capitalizing their business, so they can provide adequate housing for players and workman's compensation insurance just in case a player, say, gets a stick in the eye.

If they've done that, then they can also put some money into marketing the team properly, so they actually draw new fans to the rink.

But the clowns who run this garbage league don't do either of those things, so your proposition that it could "expose people to hockey who would otherwise have no interest in it" is, on its face, ludicrous. The only people who show up are fans desperate to watch live "professional" hockey and are too dumb to realize they're consuming a product in a way similar to an alcoholic drinking mouthwash.
 
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JMCx4

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... But the clowns who run this garbage league don't do either of those things, so your proposition that it could "expose people to hockey who would otherwise have no interest in it" is, on its face, ludicrous. The only people who show up are fans desperate to watch live "professional" hockey and are too dumb to realize they're consuming a product in a way similar to an alcoholic drinking mouthwash.
Sometimes a cheap hangover is all you need to get you through the next hockey-less day.
 

Barclay Donaldson

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Counterpoint: The Fed is a garbage league run by garbage businessmen. Just because the league is going into "big markets" doesn't mean they're doing anything right.

And what do I mean by doing things right? Let's start by properly capitalizing their business, so they can provide adequate housing for players and workman's compensation insurance just in case a player, say, gets a stick in the eye.

If they've done that, then they can also put some money into marketing the team properly, so they actually draw new fans to the rink.

But the clowns who run this garbage league don't do either of those things, so your proposition that it could "expose people to hockey who would otherwise have no interest in it" is, on its face, ludicrous. The only people who show up are fans desperate to watch live "professional" hockey and are too dumb to realize they're consuming a product in a way similar to an alcoholic drinking mouthwash.

It is a gongshow league run by people who don't know what they're doing. But they're doing better. There was never the claim from over here that they were doing anything right, just less wrong than before. And they're unarguably doing things less wrong than before, an easy accomplishment considering how much they've bungled things in the past and excellent opportunities have landed in their lap.

Teams do provide workman's comp and injured players are covered, not sure where you got the idea they're not. The Danbury Titans folded because they couldn't afford the premiums. You're right on the other accounts and Fed players are not well-compensated in the form of housing or pay because the teams couldn't stay in business if they did. But if you're going to hold leagues to that standard, then you'd be hitting the SPHL as well since just about every guy there has a second job in-season just like the Fed. The ECHL is better but nearly everyone but the big salary guys have another form of income, usually summer jobs. Minimum AHL salary is around $42,000 and many players, especially non-NHL contracted ones, have supplemental income. So if you're going to attack financial compensation, the Fed is not alone.

I can't speak to marketing the teams in their respective towns, but putting up free and surprisingly good quality YouTube broadcasts is pretty good marketing. And the on-ice quality is glorified beer league, no one is contesting that either. And still somehow people are showing up because they realize that the Fed is better than not having hockey or they're too stupid to realize bad hockey when they see it. But both of those means people are getting access to hockey who wouldn't otherwise be exposed to it. The Fed is the last resort for the minor league markets of yesterday year and as crummy as the Fed is, it's still far better than no hockey.
 
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Barclay Donaldson

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I have gained a thimble full of comfort from your conclusion. Thanks for that. :help:

What's your thoughts on the matter, then? Longing for no-longer-attainable levels of hockey has been part of the downfall of markets like Manchester, NH among others.

Glenn Falls lost the AHL twice and realized it wouldn't return. Their ECHL attendance has risen each year and is now nearing their AHL Flames/Phantoms levels. The fans know the difference in level of play, but they're likely still supporting that lower level of hockey because they know it's either that or having no hockey at all.

Worcester also lost their AHL team and realized it wouldn't return. Their attendance for their non-contending to mediocre ECHL team matches the later numbers attained by the AHL Sharks. Much like Glenn Falls, the fans know the difference in level of play, but they're likely still supporting that lower level of hockey because they know it's either that or having no hockey at all.

Pensacola lost their ECHL team and realized it wouldn't return. Instead of being too high and mighty to support their new SPHL team, they've showed up in numbers that rival the ECHL Flyers' later attendance numbers. Much like Glenn Falls and Worcester, the fans know the difference in level of play, but they're likely still supporting that lower level of hockey because they know it's either that or having no hockey at all.

Copy and paste the same logic applying to Winston-Salem, Columbus, Port Huron, and Elmira in here for the Fed. They are all markets that couldn't make it in other leagues for one reason or another. There have been many markets that have taken to lower levels of hockey.
 
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CHRDANHUTCH

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What's your thoughts on the matter, then? Longing for no-longer-attainable levels of hockey has been part of the downfall of markets like Manchester, NH among others.

Glenn Falls lost the AHL twice and realized it wouldn't return. Their ECHL attendance has risen each year and is now nearing their AHL Flames/Phantoms levels. The fans know the difference in level of play, but they're likely still supporting that lower level of hockey because they know it's either that or having no hockey at all.

Worcester also lost their AHL team and realized it wouldn't return. Their attendance for their non-contending to mediocre ECHL team matches the later numbers attained by the AHL Sharks. Much like Glenn Falls, the fans know the difference in level of play, but they're likely still supporting that lower level of hockey because they know it's either that or having no hockey at all.

Pensacola lost their ECHL team and realized it wouldn't return. Instead of being too high and mighty to support their new SPHL team, they've showed up in numbers that rival the ECHL Flyers' later attendance numbers. Much like Glenn Falls and Worcester, the fans know the difference in level of play, but they're likely still supporting that lower level of hockey because they know it's either that or having no hockey at all.

Copy and paste the same logic applying to Winston-Salem, Columbus, Port Huron, and Elmira in here for the Fed. They are all markets that couldn't make it in other leagues for one reason or another. There have been many markets that have taken to lower levels of hockey.
add in Portland to the example of Adirondack/Worcester to date so far, and add in Newfoundland as well to that despite the blip over SJSE, and the lease issue
 

JMCx4

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What's your thoughts on the matter, then? Longing for no-longer-attainable levels of hockey has been part of the downfall of markets like Manchester, NH among others. ...

Copy and paste the same logic applying to Winston-Salem, Columbus, Port Huron, and Elmira in here for the Fed. They are all markets that couldn't make it in other leagues for one reason or another. There have been many markets that have taken to lower levels of hockey.
I generally align with your position re. recent signs of improvement in the way the FPHL has conducted their business. But the old adage about a tiger & his stripes is very likely to apply here in the long run. IMO, W-S has been successful because of the business approach & lingering influence of Scott Brand, while Port Huron will never truly fail as an FPHL franchise as long as Barry Soskin needs it to fuel whatever long-term fires he is stoking. The arena management histories & local politics in Columbus and Elmira will always be hanging over those FPHL franchises' long (or even medium) term prognoses. And you can add Bloomington-Normal to those two.
 
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Newfoundland

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Counterpoint: The Fed is a garbage league run by garbage businessmen. Just because the league is going into "big markets" doesn't mean they're doing anything right.

And what do I mean by doing things right? Let's start by properly capitalizing their business, so they can provide adequate housing for players and workman's compensation insurance just in case a player, say, gets a stick in the eye.

If they've done that, then they can also put some money into marketing the team properly, so they actually draw new fans to the rink.

But the clowns who run this garbage league don't do either of those things, so your proposition that it could "expose people to hockey who would otherwise have no interest in it" is, on its face, ludicrous. The only people who show up are fans desperate to watch live "professional" hockey and are too dumb to realize they're consuming a product in a way similar to an alcoholic drinking mouthwash.
I'd go to a game with the FHL was in my area.
 
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Dingo44

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Battle Creek were behind the eight ball before the season started due to their very late start. They had issues getting in there until they could convince the barn to move on from that IHL fiasco. The team is owned by the other teams in the league to balance the schedule, and they have a lease for the year, and have been very adamant they will finish the season. They desperately need some better players and I am hoping the league figures out a way to get them some.
Mentor was in a similar situation last year with the late start and all but this year they are one of the better teams in the league. I can see that BC keeps working hard to build the market. They just started the "Rumble Bees Buzz" at a local club where people can meet players and talk hockey and it appears to be a success. They're pitching in for Habitat for Humanity. There seems to be an ongoing effort to be part of the community and sell themselves. Next time I'm back in Michigan my fiancée and I will definitely check out a game or two, though we missed we didn't miss the Thunderbirds there.
I'm hoping they give it another year like they did with Mentor so they can properly build the team and the interest.
 
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GindyDraws

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The record is now 0-17.

Should be probable the team may stick around next year as the league wants to build its foothold, especially given the benefits of maintaining travel for Danville, Mentor, and Port Huron, but if the team potentially goes anywhere close to 0-40, drastic action may be taken.
 
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