Barzal vs. Matthews

[WetcoastOrca]

Tavares on Barzal near the end of the year:
“His game keeps getting better and he’s just scratching the surface,” Tavares said. “There’s a lot of excitement in our group for him. Especially a guy with his talent and his drive to be successful”

 

[ScaredStreit]

You're comparing accomplishments of a 9 year veteran to a player that just finished his second season in the league. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what I meant by that.

Exactly, thanks for admitting that Tavares is currently better.

PS: You're the one who cited Matthews's accomplishments as being the reason why he's better than Tavares. Now you're making excuses as to why Matthews doesn't have the same accomplishments? What? He accomplishments are either the reason why he's better than Tavares (your claim), or they're not.

 

[ScaredStreit]

The next playoffs will tell the tale I think. That is the true measure of greatness

Agreed 100%. Neither player has extensive playoff experience, but that clearly goes toward Tavares. When the Isles made it to the second round (which the 1st was basically single handily won by Tavares), he scored 11 points that year. That's 4 more than Matthews has over the past 2 seasons (where he played in more games).

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Agreed 100%. Neither player has extensive playoff experience, but that clearly goes toward Tavares. When the Isles made it to the second round (which the 1st was basically single handily won by Tavares), he scored 11 points that year. That's 4 more than Matthews has over the past 2 seasons (where he played in more games).

To play Devil's Advocate, Tavares did most of his damage versus a bad Florida team. He was basically a ghost in Round 2 versus Tampa.

Matthews has had to face a pretty strong team both times he's made the playoffs. So it's easier to rack up points against a Florida team that hasn't made the playoffs since that year, than against a powerhouse Caps team and a very stingy Bruins team.

 

[LordNeverLose]

To play Devil's Advocate, Tavares did most of his damage versus a bad Florida team. He was basically a ghost in Round 2 versus Tampa.

Matthews has had to face a pretty strong team both times he's made the playoffs. So it's easier to rack up points against a Florida team that hasn't made the playoffs since that year, than against a powerhouse Caps team and a very stingy Bruins team.

Look, I'm definitely not here to defend Tavares, but the Florida was anything but "bad"

They didn't win the Atlantic by accident. They only haven't made the playoffs since because they fired Gallant and traded like half their top 6.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Look, I'm definitely not here to defend Tavares, but the Florida was anything but "bad"

They didn't win the Atlantic by accident. They only haven't made the playoffs since because they fired Gallant and traded like half their top 6.

They were arguably the weakest team in the entire East who made the playoffs. That was the year the Isles and Rangers both tried to lose the final game so they could play Florida rather than the Pens.

Also, "bad" is a relative term. They weren't lottery pick bad. But among the 16 teams who made the playoffs, they were arguably the worst of the lot.

 

[ScaredStreit]

To play Devil's Advocate, Tavares did most of his damage versus a bad Florida team. He was basically a ghost in Round 2 versus Tampa.

Matthews has had to face a pretty strong team both times he's made the playoffs. So it's easier to rack up points against a Florida team that hasn't made the playoffs since that year, than against a powerhouse Caps team and a very stingy Bruins team.

This past season the Bruins gave up 214 goals. The year the Islanders beat Florida they gave up 203. If anything Florida was a better defensive team.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This past season the Bruins gave up 214 goals. The year the Islanders beat Florida they gave up 203. If anything Florida was a better defensive team.

Higher scoring this year.

Also, you can't just look at that in a vacuum. Toronto gave up less goals this season than Tampa and Washington. Would you really argue that Toronto was the tougher match-up than either of those teams this year, and that it would be easier to pile up points versus the Caps or Lightning than the Leafs?

 

[ScaredStreit]

Higher scoring this year.

Also, you can't just look at that in a vacuum. Toronto gave up less goals this season than Tampa and Washington. Would you really argue that Toronto was the tougher match-up than either of those teams this year, and that it would be easier to pile up points versus the Caps or Lightning than the Leafs?

If there's higher scoring this year then it should have been easier for Matthews to score in the playoffs.

I wasn't arguing tougher matchup, I was arguing easier to score against.

 

[TIGERCOOL]

This past season the Bruins gave up 214 goals. The year the Islanders beat Florida they gave up 203. If anything Florida was a better defensive team.

Tavares didn't have Patrice Bergeron and Zdeno Chara glued to him every second he was on the ice in his series. Bergeron also went on to absolutely smother Stamkos and Kucherov in the following series (funny we don't hear so much about that). Then there was the presser from Babcock in which he suggested that Matthews was not close to 100%.

It sucked to watch, but it was a huge challenge for a second year player to take on the guy who is universally regarded as the best shut down center in the league over a 7 game series. Not to mention Zdeno playing his best hockey in about 5 years. The huge positive is that it'll only make him better in the long run.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If there's higher scoring this year then it should have been easier for Matthews to score in the playoffs.

I wasn't arguing tougher matchup, I was arguing easier to score against.

You watched that series versus Florida. Did you honestly think you were watching a defensive clinic where Florida gave the Islanders very little?

Because from what I saw, Florida didn't look very good structure-wise and Luongo was outplayed by Thomas Greiss.

In any case, this is kind of moving OT. I just don't think Tavares has been anything special in the playoffs other than (IMO) against a weak Florida club to give him any sort of definite edge over Matthews' playoff career.

 

[ScaredStreit]

You watched that series versus Florida. Did you honestly think you were watching a defensive clinic where Florida gave the Islanders very little?

Because from what I saw, Florida didn't look very good structure-wise and Luongo was outplayed by Thomas Greiss.

In any case, this is kind of moving OT. I just don't think Tavares has been anything special in the playoffs other than (IMO) against a weak Florida club to give him any sort of definite edge over Matthews' playoff career.

It didn't look that way but they won their division, had the 4th best goal differential in the NHL, 7th best GA in the NHL. That's a far cry from being the weakest team in the East.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It didn't look that way but they won their division, had the 4th best goal differential in the NHL, 7th best GA in the NHL. That's a far cry from being the weakest team in the East.

East playoffs. I clarified that I was talking about in comparison to the teams that made it, not all the teams, period.

 

[ScaredStreit]

East playoffs. I clarified that I was talking about in comparison to the teams that made it, not all the teams, period.

Among Eastern playoff teams:

3rd in goal differential
3rd in goals against
3rd in points
3rd in goals scored

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Among Eastern playoff teams:

3rd in goal differential
3rd in goals against
3rd in points
3rd in goals scored

Again, you watched the series. Can you honestly, with a straight face, say Florida LOOKED like a team you'd consider the third best playoff team in the East? I mean, Islanders fans themselves talk about how bad that Florida team was and even say stuff like Capuano out-coached Gallant. Now suddenly they were a tough match up?

As I said, Toronto finished higher in GA than both Washington and Tampa this past year. They had a better GF/GA differential than the eventual Cup champs. Would anyone argue that it would be easier to score versus Washington or Tampa than it was against Toronto?

 

[ScaredStreit]

Again, you watched the series. Can you honestly, with a straight face, say Florida LOOKED like a team you'd consider the third best playoff team in the East? I mean, Islanders fans themselves talk about how bad that Florida team was and even say stuff like Capuano out-coached Gallant. Now suddenly they were a tough match up?

As I said, Toronto finished higher in GA than both Washington and Tampa this past year. They had a better GF/GA differential than the eventual Cup champs. Would anyone argue that it would be easier to score versus Washington or Tampa than it was against Toronto?

Do I honestly think Florida was the 3rd best team in the East that year? No. Do I think they were arguably the worst? No. I'm not implying they were a tough matchup, just that they weren't this easy team that the Islanders were able to steam roll over.

Tavares doesn't look like he's a good skater, but that's clearly not true if you really watch his play. We're inherently biased as human beings, the statistics aren't, which is why concrete evidence (stats) is a much better indicator of certain things than the eye test.

 

[34]

The only votes against Matthews here are from the well known Leaf haters on HF here.

This is not remotely close.

 

[IslesBro715]

The only votes against Barzal here are from well known Toronto homers on HF here.

This is not remotely close.

 

[LordNeverLose]

The only votes against Matthews here are from the well known Leaf haters on HF here.

This is not remotely close.

33% of HF is noted Leafs haters?

 

[Strait2thecup]

The only votes against Matthews here are from the well known Leaf haters on HF here.

This is not remotely close.

Wtf are you talking about

So close in age and production but yup all leaf hate

Muh leafssssas!!!! Such a stupid post

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

The only votes against Matthews here are from the well known Leaf haters on HF here.

This is not remotely close.

I’m curious; if this is the case, then why did Tavares’ results against Mark Schiefele not go through any significant changes after he joined the Leafs?

 

[Halla]

The only votes against Barzal here are from well known Toronto homers on HF here.

This is not remotely close.

nah dude, thats not even close.

246-120. toronto doesnt win any poll this easily unless its a AINEC situation (ex. nylander losing to the same guy that ehlers stomped in a poll...yup)

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Barzal might face top competition next year, but it's not like there are defencemen in the league capable of skating with him.

Karlsson?

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Even with the highest, most generous interpretation of Matthews' performance, you'd really need to stretch the boundaries of a generational player to apply it to him.

At the absolute considerable minimum, there would be at least 10 other generational players to enter the league within the last 30 years.

I don't think he'll ever develop into a generational player (although i would be estatic if i was wrong) but i do think that he (and Laine) has potential to develop into a generational goal scorer possibly.

 

[LordNeverLose]

Not a single Leafs poster has come up for any rationale as to why the more productive player is worse AINEC.

Classic.