Barzal vs Marner

[BayStreetBully]

This all depends on Matt doing it again.
Not happening so far.

Doubtful it ever happens again. It’s possible he’s this generation’s Joe Juneau.

 

[razkaz]

This all depends on Matt doing it again.
Not happening so far.

I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure he is on pace for the same amount of pts as last year 15 games in. This is with Barzal facing top competition with JT out of the picture. On the other hand Marner is playing out of this world and far better than his previous year.

Barzal has scored 85 pts, Marner has not. This year I think Marner outscores Barzal

 

[Pyrophorus]

I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure he is on pace for the same amount of pts as last year 15 games in. This is with Barzal facing top competition with JT out of the picture. On the other hand Marner is playing out of this world and far better than his previous year.

Barzal has scored 85 pts, Marner has not. This year I think Marner outscores Barzal

13pts in 15 games is 71pts.

 

[razkaz]

13pts in 15 games is 71pts.

Not sure what the argument is? He can get hot again and score 80+ just like last year or he can remain cold because he is not playing a sheltered role.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Not even close. Marner is the better player by far. Marner continues to skyrocket every year. Barzal appears to be a fluke. He’s scored only 1 goal in the last 7 full months.

Ah yes. A fluke indeed. The first rookie sine Malkin to get 85 points.
Let’s wait and see if Marner can hit a PPG once out of three seasons before labelling the more proven player a fluke.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Ah yes. A fluke indeed. The first rookie sine Malkin to get 85 points.
Let’s wait and see if Marner can hit a PPG once out of three seasons before labelling the more proven player a fluke.

Or you can wait and see if Barzal can have more than one good season before calling him proven. Having only one good season is the very reason why he is a fluke, lol. But signs point to no, since he isn’t sheltered behind Tavares anymore, and it’s hard to score those fluky 5 point games without being sheltered.

Perhaps it’s telling Barzal already seems to be regr swing from his “beginner’s luck” season. The real question is whether this year is going to be a sophomore slump or the beginning of something worse.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Or you can wait and see if Barzal can have more than one good season before calling him proven. Having only one good season is the very reason why he is a fluke, lol. But signs point to no, since he isn’t sheltered behind Tavares anymore, and it’s hard to score those fluky 5 point games without being sheltered.

Perhaps it’s telling Barzal already seems to be regr swing from his “beginner’s luck” season. The real question is whether this year is going to be a sophomore slump or the beginning of something worse.

Or we can wait until Marner has one good season that comes close to a PPG when his best so far is 69 points compared to Barzal’s historic 85 point rookie season. While I don’t think Marner is a ‘fluke’ it’s far more likely that his first 15 games are a fluke than Barzal’s first 97 games where he’s been over a POG.
Beginners luck! Lol! You’re cracking me up here.

 

[Critical13]

Barzal is probably better but Marner is my favourite player and I think they are neck and neck so I picked him. I wouldn't fault anyone for taking Barzal though, especially since he's a C.

Barzal ainec. Lol at Leafs fans voting Marner. Marner cant carry a team like Barzal can. Barzal is better than Matthews let alone Marner and the stats show it. I dont know in what imaginary way u guys are justifying that Marners better other than pure homerism.

Which stats show it, out of curiosity?

I'm looking at Barzal and Marner's stats for this year and I don't see how one could be considered vastly better than the other.

5v5	Pts	P1/60	Game Score/60	CF%	GF%	ZSR	TOI QoT	TOI QoC
Barzal	6	1.84	1.01	47.6	33.29	61.86	29.81	28.97
Marner	13	3.43	3.42	47.7	66.6	51.74	31.77	30.07

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Am I being a homer still for thinking they are close?

Marner also is our 2nd best penalty killer.

Not sure why I bother to even put this effort in, in 2 days this post will be burried amongst more hyperbole...but it is what it is.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Or we can wait until Marner has one good season that comes close to a PPG when his best so far is 69 points compared to Barzal’s historic 85 point rookie season. While I don’t think Marner is a ‘fluke’ it’s far more likely that his first 15 games are a fluke than Barzal’s first 97 games where he’s been over a POG.
Beginners luck! Lol! You’re cracking me up here.

Marner has had two good seasons, consistently trending upward, and is doing it again for a third. He’s about as safe as it gets. He’s also killing Barzal this season. Marner has also scored more than just 1 goal in the last 7 full months. Ouch!

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Marner has had two good seasons, consistently trending upward, and is doing it again for a third. He’s about as safe as it gets. He’s also killing Barzal this season. Marner has also scored more than just 1 goal in the last 7 full months. Ouch!

Two good seasons? Sure. He’s a safe 69 point player. Barzal is better than a PPG since entering the league. A much more proven elite player than Marner who has yet to come even close to PPG.
Marner certainly has had a hot 15 game start but it could be a fluke.
I’ll take the safer guy who had 27% more points last season.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Two good seasons? Sure. He’s a safe 69 point player. Barzal is better than a PPG since entering the league. A much more proven elite player than Marner who has yet to come even close to PPG.
I’ll take the safer guy who had 27% more points last season.

And I’ll take the guy who has 50% more points and 400% more goals this season.

 

[Dale Best Goalie]

Tavares can be used as an excuse for Marner this season but not Barzal last season?

yes, because Marner plays on the ice with JT, Barzal carried his own line last year. Shouldn't be this confusing.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

And I’ll take the guy who has 50% more points and 400% more goals this season.

Sure. 15 game sample size! And you tried to argue Barzal’s 98 game sample size was a ‘fluke’!

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I love how people are making the cut and paste sample method to drive home a narrative.

So let's use the Career sample, the largest sample of 2 players picked 12 slots apart from the 2015 draft. Even taking the positional argument out of the equation since most regard a Center as more valuable than a winger. Or the actual career seasonal high in points 85-69 BOTH in Barzal's favour.

Barzal is still superior in the largest sample of games available.

Barzal .99 PPG over 82 games 81 points

Marner .86 PPG over 82 games 70 points.

 

[ACC1224]

Barzal is probably better but Marner is my favourite player and I think they are neck and neck so I picked him. I wouldn't fault anyone for taking Barzal though, especially since he's a C.



Which stats show it, out of curiosity?

I'm looking at Barzal and Marner's stats for this year and I don't see how one could be considered vastly better than the other.

5v5	Pts	P1/60	Game Score/60	CF%	GF%	ZSR	TOI QoT	TOI QoC
Barzal	6	1.84	1.01	47.6	33.29	61.86	29.81	28.97
Marner	13	3.43	3.42	47.7	66.6	51.74	31.77	30.07

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Am I being a homer still for thinking they are close?

Marner also is our 2nd best penalty killer.

Not sure why I bother to even put this effort in, in 2 days this post will be burried amongst more hyperbole...but it is what it is.

When the Leafs are involved for some reason many can't have a fair and rational discussion.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Sure. 15 game sample size! And you tried to argue Barzal’s 98 game sample size was a ‘fluke’!

The 2018-2019 season is what matters, unless you choose to duck your head in the past.

And yes, Barzal’s season last year was a fluke. Anyone can have one fluky year. They’re called One Year Wonders. Players need to prove themselves with more than one good year. And more importantly, players need to show growth and improvement, some kind of upward trajectory. We’ll see, but it doesn’t look good for Barzal given his start.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

The 2018-2019 season is what matters, unless you choose to duck your head in the past.

And yes, Barzal’s season last year was a fluke. Anyone can have one fluky year. They’re called One Year Wonders. Players need to prove themselves with more than one good year. And more importantly, players need to show growth and improvement, some kind of upward trajectory. We’ll see, but it doesn’t look good for Barzal given his start.

A 15 game sample size is not what matters. Sorry you’re wrong. Barzal’s been a PPG player since entering the league and he’s close this year. Always go with the proven player. The fact he plays center on a weaker team simply reinforces how great he’s been.

 

[BayStreetBully]

A 15 game sample size is not what matters. Sorry you’re wrong.

Sorry, 1 goal in the last 7 full months doesn’t cut it either.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

When the Leafs are involved for some reason many can't have a fair and rational discussion.

Agreed.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner didn't put up 85 points as a rookie, nor has he ever hit 63 assists in a season nor is he is not in the same league as Barzal as a skater. So yes, Marner is actually not better than Barzal at pretty much everything at this point.

What did I just read?

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Before the season started I would have taken Barzal but Marner is playing the best hockey of his career and Barzal is off to a tough start ( ie: -9, not creating offence at even strength, low shot generation, etc...). I have to take Marner now.

What did I just read?

Barzal is a better skater than Marner. Barzal's probably top 5 in the league and (even with his tough start) is still pushing the puck up ice at an elite level.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

yes, because Marner plays on the ice with JT, Barzal carried his own line last year. Shouldn't be this confusing.

Yet a ton of Barzal’s points came on the PP with guess who lol

 

[authentic]

yes, because Marner plays on the ice with JT, Barzal carried his own line last year. Shouldn't be this confusing.

And he's better than Tavares.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Marner has such exceptional vision that he will always be an elite playmaker. He’s always a lock to rack up assists. Barzal would have to make up the difference by scoring goals, but as you can see, he only has 1 goal in the last 7 full months. So what we have is Marner being the better playmaker, who is also scoring more goals at present. It’s not even close at this moment in time.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Before the season started I would have taken Barzal but Marner is playing the best hockey of his career and Barzal is off to a tough start ( ie: -9, not creating offence at even strength, low shot generation, etc...). I have to take Marner now.

Barzal is a better skater than Marner. Barzal's probably top 5 in the league and (even with his tough start) is still pushing the puck up ice at an elite level.

Marner's pretty elite himself, to say he's not even in the same league as Barzal is crazy talk. I've since noticed who posted that though so it all makes sense now.