Barzal Or Matthews

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I think the hype around Barzal got a little bit out of control.

He's a great player and a legit 1C, but the idea that he was in the very cream of the crop in the NHL was always taking it a bit too far.

He's more like a Scheifele than a Matthews.

Barzal was absolutely unreal as a rookie, but the smart idea was to wait and see to see where he went from there. It's unfortunate that he didn't keep up that level of play or improve on it, but he hypothetically could have. he was a top 5 offensive player at 5v5, and was elite at carrying and passing the puck. There were still valid concerns and I guess they halted his performance a bit though

 

[Maple Leaf]

marner is better than barzal
barzal is just lucky
now people know his run around shtick

 

[howkie]

mostly because Matthews started in his D+1 season, Barzal started in his D+3

Well, we never hear that when Nylander compares to Ehlers regarding career ppg… Intressting

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Well, we never hear that when Nylander compares to Ehlers regarding career ppg… Intressting

why do I care what you hear about two unrelated players? if you want to make that argument, you can make it

 

[Mac2Rants]

Hmmm... Matthews lol

 

[Mathew Barzal]

Matthews has a much more well rounded set of offensive tools. They are not far apart, but there is enough distance to comfortably say Matthews is better.

 

[SI90]

Matthews has a much more well rounded set of offensive tools. They are not far apart, but there is enough distance to comfortably say Matthews is better.

See, even Barzal himself is saying Matthews. Yet, leafs fans will still be in here pounding away and fighting against an imaginary group who think Barzal is the superior player right now. Such an interesting bunch.

 

[ManWithNoName]

There's literally no way of knowing that. Malkin is still going on and he's had a lot of issues. Selanne broke (they were clean broken apart) his Tibia and Fibula as a 18 year old, cut his achilles tendon at 23, had reconstructive knee surgery at 34 and he scored 80 points in 73 games at 40 years old.

Predicting career ending injuries is incredibly hard and while I do think there's some cause for concern with Matthews he just as easily could never have issues with health again.

You pretty much answered your own question with the comparison to Selanne.

All of Selannes injuries were on separate parts of his body. Matthews has had 3-4 injuries to his shoulders - at 21... Forsberg, much like Matthews, had problems with one body part, his feet. Never recovered completely and retired pre-maturely.

I never hope for a player to have a shortened career, but if I had to bet money Matthews would be my pick. Keep in mind, the injuries has not occured from dirty plays but regular checks.

 

[mammothCacti]

You can't really compare alot of these guys coming into the NHL's rookie season with Matthews cause they aren't in their Draft +1 years.

Also Matthews had essentially Kadri to back him up against tougher matchups as teams instantly started to play their top D against him after the first game. It's just not the same.

 

[Foppberg]

Matthews.

I like Barzal a lot but Matthews is a special, special player. Outside of MacKinnon/McDavid/Barkov/Eichel, he'd be the next great centre to build around imo.

 

[authentic]

You can't really compare alot of these guys coming into the NHL's rookie season with Matthews cause they aren't in their Draft +1 years.

Also Matthews had essentially Kadri to back him up against tougher matchups as teams instantly started to play their top D against him after the first game. It's just not the same.

It's no wonder he went on a 13 game goal drought shortly after. I guess that'll happen when you score 4 your first game.

 

[authentic]

Matthews.

I like Barzal a lot but Matthews is a special, special player. Outside of MacKinnon/McDavid/Barkov/Eichel, he'd be the next great centre to build around imo.

Would you really take the last two over a healthy Matthews though?

 

[Foppberg]

Would you really take the last two over a healthy Matthews though?

Yup, I love both. For the first time in like a year Bednar broke up the top line, put Mikko on the 2nd line and the Barkov line focused on him while MacKinnon/Landy were more free. He's elite in both offence and defense. Eichel/Matthews is more about preference I suppose, but I him better. Plays with a lot less and gets similar results.

It's not so much a knock on Matthews as it is a testament of how many great young centres we have in the league right now.

 

[authentic]

Yup, I love both. For the first time in like a year Bednar broke up the top line, put Mikko on the 2nd line and the Barkov line focused on him while MacKinnon/Landy were more free. He's elite in both offence and defense. Eichel/Matthews is more about preference I suppose, but I him better. Plays with a lot less and gets similar results.

It's not so much a knock on Matthews as it is a testament of how many great young centres we have in the league right now.

I could see someone taking Barkov currently, Eichel is great too but it's tough to see him being better than Matthews when I personally believe even Marner is a bit better. Eichel has Skinner now to play with who has been a very good goal scorer in his own right, and the offense from the back end is pretty great as well. Barkov is so good defensively though I wouldn't complain if they swapped places momentarily.

 

[The Mentalist]

Obviously Matthews is the better player but Barzal is no slouch he could be good as Matthews minus the goal scoring.

 

[NoName]

Barzal is a very good young centre, one of the elite players of the new generation. Matthews is just significantly better; honestly he is looking like the leader in the "2nd best player after McDavid" conversation.

 

[Quickdraw2828]

Obviously Matthews is far better than Barzal. Barzal is a better skater than Mathews, but this is hockey and not figure skating and you don't get points for skating ability in hockey . Concerning the statement about the rest of the league figuring out Bazal I'm afraid this is true. Last year defensemen were on Barzal's back trying to strip him. They couldn't stay with him and he'd complete a pass to someone skating toward the net while he tied up the defender hanging with him. This year the defenders are laying off him while he's out of scoring range and clogging his passing lanes. It's like he's facing an extra defender. No more easy goals for Eberle and Beauvillier so they're not having as much as success either.

Barzal is still probably the 2nd best skater in the league, but he really has to change his game and go up the middle. He's struggling with it.

 

[pettersson]

You can't really compare alot of these guys coming into the NHL's rookie season with Matthews cause they aren't in their Draft +1 years.

Also Matthews had essentially Kadri to back him up against tougher matchups as teams instantly started to play their top D against him after the first game. It's just not the same.

Oh you absolutely can. if you're referring to Pettersson he dominated the SHL his draft+1 season, set a record as an all-time u20 player for putting up the most points in the regular season. "Well its not the NHL" is a dumb excuse when you see the guys he beat in his rookie season.

Plus it's a way more difficult transition from international to NHL. Laine came into the NHL season after draft. Also, all of these rookies went through that. Coming into teams and playing 17+ min, and quickyly becoming their teams best players. They all play against the oppositions best guys

 

[CodeE]

We’re making it out that they aren’t “as good” because they aren’t. Laine was jammed down our throats for a year until Matthews put that to sleep. Barzal was rammed down our throats last year and now that’s been put to sleep as well. The Pettersson hype seemed to melt away once he began to regress.

Maybe the problem isn't these other fanbases "jamming their players down your throats".

Maybe the problem is that when Laine succeeds, obsessed Leaf fans need to say he sucks and is nowhere close to almighty Matthews.

When Barzal succeeds, obsessed Leaf fans need to say he sucks and is nowhere close to almighty Matthews.

When Pettersson succeeds, obsessed Leaf fans need to say he sucks and is nowhere close to almighty Matthews.

How about just letting other fanbases be excited about their young superstars?

Or just get to work planning what you'll say to whatever team drafts Jack Hughes, how they're jamming Jack Hughes down your poor throat by having the absolute gall to have a positive opinion about their young player.

 

[FalcorMulch]

Well, we never hear that when Nylander compares to Ehlers regarding career ppg… Intressting

They were both drafted in 2014 and started playing in 2015-16. The only reason Nylander played so few games is because there was no reason to rush him up to a trash team and he missed a lot of time to a concussion at the world juniors. Had nothing to do with making the team.

 

[hockeeyyy]

Maybe the problem isn't these other fanbases "jamming their players down your throats".

Maybe the problem is that when Laine succeeds, obsessed Leaf fans need to say he sucks and is nowhere close to almighty Matthews.

When Barzal succeeds, obsessed Leaf fans need to say he sucks and is nowhere close to almighty Matthews.

When Pettersson succeeds, obsessed Leaf fans need to say he sucks and is nowhere close to almighty Matthews.

How about just letting other fanbases be excited about their young superstars?

Or just get to work planning what you'll say to whatever team drafts Jack Hughes, how they're jamming Jack Hughes down your poor throat by having the absolute gall to have a positive opinion about their young player.

Oh the big bad Leafs. It's all their fault.

 

[NoName]

Obviously Matthews is far better than Barzal. Barzal is a better skater than Mathews, but this is hockey and not figure skating and you don't get points for skating ability in hockey . Concerning the statement about the rest of the league figuring out Bazal I'm afraid this is true. Last year defensemen were on Barzal's back trying to strip him. They couldn't stay with him and he'd complete a pass to someone skating toward the net while he tied up the defender hanging with him. This year the defenders are laying off him while he's out of scoring range and clogging his passing lanes. It's like he's facing an extra defender. No more easy goals for Eberle and Beauvillier so they're not having as much as success either.

Barzal is still probably the 2nd best skater in the league, but he really has to change his game and go up the middle. He's struggling with it.

Yep, but Barzal is talented enough to adapt and build up new tools. To a degree, it is always a bit of an arms race; if you are not working to build new aspects to your game you are going to get countered pretty quickly. He and the coaching staff will work to find a new tool to help him break open the game again.

 

[Steeze]

Yep. I was dissapointed when Islander fans welcomed him with open arms. Then we won Tavares sweepstakes and he suddenly was promoted to role of Emperor over there.

It was reminiscent of Gaston attempting to rally the mob over on the Isles board when this thread was bumped. Mission accomplished I guess.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Maybe the problem isn't these other fanbases "jamming their players down your throats".

Maybe the problem is that when Laine succeeds, obsessed Leaf fans need to say he sucks and is nowhere close to almighty Matthews.

When Barzal succeeds, obsessed Leaf fans need to say he sucks and is nowhere close to almighty Matthews.

When Pettersson succeeds, obsessed Leaf fans need to say he sucks and is nowhere close to almighty Matthews.

How about just letting other fanbases be excited about their young superstars?

Or just get to work planning what you'll say to whatever team drafts Jack Hughes, how they're jamming Jack Hughes down your poor throat by having the absolute gall to have a positive opinion about their young player.

I think it is obvious why some feel a need to bring down Barzal a notch. He was drafted #16 and he blew Marner's rookie season out of the water, when this happened. It is natural to be insecure. Rather than accept both are great talents. I know Isles fans count themselves lucky Barzal was there at #16.

He is going to be an elite producing player once the Isles talent improves around him.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Obviously Matthews is far better than Barzal. Barzal is a better skater than Mathews, but this is hockey and not figure skating and you don't get points for skating ability in hockey . Concerning the statement about the rest of the league figuring out Bazal I'm afraid this is true. Last year defensemen were on Barzal's back trying to strip him. They couldn't stay with him and he'd complete a pass to someone skating toward the net while he tied up the defender hanging with him. This year the defenders are laying off him while he's out of scoring range and clogging his passing lanes. It's like he's facing an extra defender. No more easy goals for Eberle and Beauvillier so they're not having as much as success either.

Barzal is still probably the 2nd best skater in the league, but he really has to change his game and go up the middle. He's struggling with it.

Matthews is better right now. He simply has too many weapons to play with that Barzal does not at the moment to make this a conversation.

But having been part of the group of @MatthewFlames and @Skinnyjimmy08 that believed in Barzal from those prospects threads when posters told us he would score no more than 35 pts as a rookie. I am not going to concede when both peak. It is going to be a clear cut advantage for Matthews. I think Barzal will outproduce him some years and Matthews will also. They will take turns. It really depends on when the Isles build a talent base around Barzal as Matthews has for this to happen.

85 pts as a rookie is rare. Players like Barzal are rare. I see no reason to jump off him. He has already proven his believers right once. I am game for this to happen again.