Barzal + Connor vs. Marner + Aho

[JetsHomer]

Connor is probably better at hockey than any of the Seattle Mariners but he is not at the same level as Mitch Marner which I think is the point you are arguing.

Take a look at the careers to date and Marner has been better at every level. Connor had an impressive NCAA year however Marner was dominating a better league at the same time. Not sure why you reference his AHL season when Marner played in the NHL and put up better numbers that season in a better league once again. Let’s wait for Connor to surpass Marner’s rookie year numbers before saying they are comparable.

You think the OHL is a better league than the NCAA? Lol

 

[Skolman]

Connor is probably better at hockey than any of the Seattle Mariners but he is not at the same level as Mitch Marner which I think is the point you are arguing.

Take a look at the careers to date and Marner has been better at every level. Connor had an impressive NCAA year however Marner was dominating a better league at the same time. Not sure why you reference his AHL season when Marner played in the NHL and put up better numbers that season in a better league once again. Let’s wait for Connor to surpass Marner’s rookie year numbers before saying they are comparable.

You seriously think it's harder dominating the OHL compared to the NCAA....?

Also, when do goals become relevant in this? Only when we talk Matthews?

 

[Lemontree]

You think the OHL is a better league than the NCAA? Lol

You seriously think it's harder dominating the OHL compared to the NCAA....?

Also, when do goals become relevant in this? Only when we talk Matthews?

Yes, the OHL or CHL is a much better league in terms of talent than the NCAA. Almost all the top Canadian players play in the CHL not to mention the recent wave of top Import players who go to the CHL. Do yourselves a favour and look at the Hobey Baker Award winner list and compare that to the CHL Player of the Year winners.

Why don’t one of you name me the top 10 players in the NHL right now who went the NCAA route and I will post top 10 current NHLers who played in the CHL.

 

[The Big M]

Yes, the OHL or CHL is a much better league in terms of talent than the NCAA. Almost all the top Canadian players play in the CHL not to mention the recent wave of top Import players who go to the CHL. Do yourselves a favour and look at the Hobey Baker Award winner list and compare that to the CHL Player of the Year winners.

Why don’t one of you name me the top 10 players in the NHL right now who went the NCAA route and I will post top 10 current NHLers who played in the CHL.

Well that may be true but that's because 50+ years ago Canadians were ahead of other countries. So sure there did not exist a lot of talent in America. Heck not a lot of people knew about hockey in the States long ago. But that's slowly changing. There's a lot more American talent now playing in the NCAA.
Plus in Junior most players are kids aged 16 to 19. So you could be dominating but you are playing kids your age.
In NCAA, the top talented players lets say aged 18 are playing against men about ages 18 to 24. That's a huge difference.

 

[The Big M]

Yes, the OHL or CHL is a much better league in terms of talent than the NCAA. Almost all the top Canadian players play in the CHL not to mention the recent wave of top Import players who go to the CHL. Do yourselves a favour and look at the Hobey Baker Award winner list and compare that to the CHL Player of the Year winners.

Why don’t one of you name me the top 10 players in the NHL right now who went the NCAA route and I will post top 10 current NHLers who played in the CHL.

So to continue my lost post: NCAA is a good league and growing in it's talent base.
Therefore Conner's achievements are not to be taken lightly. I still respect Marner for his achievements but not necessarily better than Conner's.
So sure there's not as many talented NCAA names...I mean some stars didn't play in either league but came directly from Europe: Ovechkin, Laine, etc.

Here's some NCAA names: Wheeler, Matthews, Hellebuyck, Gaudreau, Eichel, Conner of the top of my head. I'm sure this list will grow over the following years and I'm sure there's many names I missed.

 

[Lemontree]

So to continue my lost post: NCAA is a good league and growing in it's talent base.
Therefore Conner's achievements are not to be taken lightly. I still respect Marner for his achievements but not necessarily better than Conner's.
So sure there's not as many talented NCAA names...I mean some stars didn't play in either league but came directly from Europe: Ovechkin, Laine, etc.

Here's some NCAA names: Wheeler, Matthews, Hellebuyck, Gaudreau, Eichel, Conner of the top of my head. I'm sure this list will grow over the following years and I'm sure there's many names I missed.

You sure about that? Which NCAA team did Matthews play for while spending his draft season in Switzerland?

In regards to your previous post if players are playing in NCAA at 23 and 24 years of age it is most likely because they are not good enough to play pro at any ranks. There is a massive talent difference between a NCAA and and CHL.

 

[JetsHomer]

Top end talent might be better from the CHL but the NCAA is the much stronger league. At the end of the day one league is all 16-19 year olds one is 19-23 year olds. Not even close to the same level of competition. Boys compared to men

 

[JetsHomer]

You sure about that? Which NCAA team did Matthews play for while spending his draft season in Switzerland?

In regards to your previous post if players are playing in NCAA at 23 and 24 years of age it is most likely because they are not good enough to play pro at any ranks. There is a massive talent difference between a NCAA and and CHL.

Matthews had 46 points in 36 games his draft year. Lol what trash. Leafs clearly should have taken Dubios, I mean damn his PPG in the CHL was good

 

[HOPE]

man connor is being underated here.

i like everguy in here, but i somehow feel Connor is one of those guy who will unleash the beast and maybe even end up the best of the 4 or on par with barzal.

 

[The Big M]

You sure about that? Which NCAA team did Matthews play for while spending his draft season in Switzerland?

In regards to your previous post if players are playing in NCAA at 23 and 24 years of age it is most likely because they are not good enough to play pro at any ranks. There is a massive talent difference between a NCAA and and CHL.

You got me on Matthews.
However, I disagree with your statement. Most Junior players do not go directly to the NHL. They have to spend years playing in the AHL until maybe 22, 23 so that they are mentally and physically ready to play in the NHL. It's a matter of choice in some cases.
In the NCAA, players can grow their game to prepare for the big leagues.
I still say a 17 year old teenager dominating the CHL would have a tougher time if he had to play against 23, 24 year old more physically mature men.

 

[Lemontree]

Matthews had 46 points in 36 games his draft year. Lol what trash. Leafs clearly should have taken Dubios, I mean damn his PPG in the CHL was good

Do you read before you post. The other poster quoted as saying Matthews went NCAA route which he did not. I actually can’t believe that there are people arguing the NCAA is better competition than the CHL. Trying watching the Mem Cup. NCAA guys are older and may be physically stronger but the overall talent level is a major step down.

 

[Lemontree]

You got me on Matthews.
However, I disagree with your statement. Most Junior players do not go directly to the NHL. They have to spend years playing in the AHL until maybe 22, 23 so that they are mentally and physically ready to play in the NHL. It's a matter of choice in some cases.
In the NCAA, players can grow their game to prepare for the big leagues.
I still say a 17 year old teenager dominating the CHL would have a tougher time if he had to play against 23, 24 year old more physically mature men.

Can you provide a list of NCAA players who made the jump from NCAA to NHL without having development time in the AHL over the past say 5 years? I would be shocked to see that players are more NHL ready leaving NCAA than when leaving CHL even though they may be older.

Also I never said most junior players go directly to the NHL. Most junior players never make the NHL however more CHL players make the NHL than NCAA players as well as more players go directly from CHL to NHL.

 

[LordNeverLose]

Can you provide a list of NCAA players who made the jump from NCAA to NHL without having development time in the AHL over the past say 5 years? I would be shocked to see that players are more NHL ready leaving NCAA than when leaving CHL even though they may be older.

Also I never said most junior players go directly to the NHL. Most junior players never make the NHL however more CHL players make the NHL than NCAA players as well as more players go directly from CHL to NHL.

No one is saying the CHL doesn't have more top end talent, but it's pretty clear that one of the top NCAA teams could smack any team in the CHL.

I mean, just look at the scoring of top prospects in their leagues. Top CHL prospects put up 1.5-2 PPG in the CHL all the time. Someone doing that in the NCAA is extremely rare.

 

[Lemontree]

No one is saying the CHL doesn't have more top end talent, but it's pretty clear that one of the top NCAA teams could smack any team in the CHL.

I mean, just look at the scoring of top prospects in their leagues. Top CHL prospects put up 1.5-2 PPG in the CHL all the time. Someone doing that in the NCAA is extremely rare.

How is it pretty clear that a top NCAA team would smack a top CHL team when they never play each other.

The example being used is how Connor dominated NCAA in his D + 1 season yet was only good enough to get 20 NHL games the following season where he posted 2 goals and 5 points. He played 52 games in the AHL and posted 44 points. Not exactly a ringing endorsement to the theory that NCAA is preparing players for the NHL.

 

[LordNeverLose]

How is it pretty clear that a top NCAA team would smack a top CHL team when they never play each other.

The example being used is how Connor dominated NCAA in his D + 1 season yet was only good enough to get 20 NHL games the following season where he posted 2 goals and 5 points. He played 52 games in the AHL and posted 44 points. Not exactly a ringing endorsement to the theory that NCAA is preparing players for the NHL.

I don't care about that argument. A top NCAA team would demolish a top CHL team. They're like 4 years older it's pretty obvious.

 

[Lemontree]

I don't care about that argument. A top NCAA team would demolish a top CHL team. They're like 4 years older it's pretty obvious.

Which 2005 NCAA team would have beaten the 2005 Team Canada World Junior team?

 

[LordNeverLose]

Which 2005 NCAA team would have beaten the 2005 Team Canada World Junior team?

Must've missed the Canadian National team in the CHL, my bad.

 

[Lemontree]

Must've missed the Canadian National team in the CHL, my bad.

I don't care about that argument. A top NCAA team would demolish a top CHL team. They're like 4 years older it's pretty obvious.

Team was made up of under 20 year old players who mostly played in the CHL, what's the difference if it is a all-star team or a regular CHL team since you stated above that playing against men 4 years older than them they wouldn't have a chance....."its pretty obvious".

The massive talent gap doesn't matter because NCAA guys would be older and therefore better players according to you.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Team was made up of under 20 year old players who mostly played in the CHL, what's the difference if it is a all-star team or a regular CHL team since you stated above that playing against men 4 years older than them they wouldn't have a chance....."its pretty obvious".

Is this a serious question? The difference is that it's an all-star team of the best players in the CHL and not a regular CHL team where the best 2 or 3 players get drafted and the rest have no hope of playing in the NHL. It's also made up of almost exclusively 18 to 20 year old players, unlike a regular CHL team where a third to half of the roster are still high schoolers. Not to mention the lockout meant that a half dozen NHL level players had to stay in the CHL in 2004-05 and played in the WJC.

I just don't get this argument, nobody is disputing that the level of talent is higher in the CHL and that more NHLers come from the CHL but that doesn't mean the CHL is a higher level of play. Age is a huge difference, just comparing St. Cloud State to Acadie-Bathurst, St. Cloud only had three teenagers including two draftees (Hrenak and Poehling) and only one player under 19 (Poehling). They had 7 guys that would be CHL overagers, and 14 guys that would be too old for the CHL. In comparison, Acadie-Bathurst had 12 regulars that were under 19. Talent only goes so far when we're talking about 17 and 18 year olds playing a team of 20-23 year olds.

It's just a weird argument to me, it isn't remotely controversial to say that the NCAA is a higher level of play and it's widely held to be true by people that follow prospects and amateur hockey. I also don't even know if a World Junior team in a non-lockout year is such a slam dunk to beat top NCAA teams, the World Juniors teams play Canadian U Sports all-star teams before the tournament every year and they don't dominate and often lose. Mitch Marner would be fine in the NCAA but that doesn't mean the London Knights would.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Barzal >> Aho > Connor > Marner

Barzal-Connor easily

 

[LakeLivin]

So to continue my lost post: NCAA is a good league and growing in it's talent base.
Therefore Conner's achievements are not to be taken lightly. I still respect Marner for his achievements but not necessarily better than Conner's.
So sure there's not as many talented NCAA names...I mean some stars didn't play in either league but came directly from Europe: Ovechkin, Laine, etc.

Here's some NCAA names: Wheeler, Matthews, Hellebuyck, Gaudreau, Eichel, Conner of the top of my head. I'm sure this list will grow over the following years and I'm sure there's many names I missed.

Defensemen: Slavin, Werenski, McAvoy, McDonagh, Shattenkirk, Trouba, Hanifin.

More forwards: Pacioretty JVR, Towes, Kessel, Oshie, Boeser, Keller.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Leafs fans are funny. Barzal is very clearly better than Marner.

Barzal

Marner
Aho

Connor

Good poll

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Aho and Marner pretty easily

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Leafs fans are funny. Barzal is very clearly better than Marner.

Barzal

Marner
Aho

Connor

Good poll

this post didn't age well lol

 

[WillTheThrill]

Barzal >> Aho > Connor > Marner

Barzal-Connor easily

Hahahahahahaha