Barry Trotz on Team Culture

[Hockey Nebula]

Here on HFCanucks, we're watching a rebuilding team trying to establish themselves and their identity. The word "culture" gets used a lot.

Some people mock the idea of culture. But it's important on every team and in every organization that involves a lot of people. Not just sports teams.

My opinion is that many of the critics who dismiss culture and mock the idea of trying to establish it, just don't really understand what it is. Maybe most of the critics are younger people who don't understand it yet.

Here's a quote from Islanders Coach Barry Trotz on what team culture is, after the Islanders went from allowing the most goals last season, to the fewest goals this season, something no other team has done in the last 100 years. They also lost Tavares:

"When you say 'culture change,' it's just a way of doing things," Trotz said. "We talk about accountability in some areas and the way we present ourselves, the way we act, the way we respond to adversity, all those things. That's part of changing the culture. Changing the culture might be instead of when things get a little bit rough in terms of maybe not going a certain way, if you don't have a great culture you fracture and you all go individually in your own direction, when actually you should come together and go in the same direction.
"That's a mindset. That's something day in and day out you force accountability on the guy next to you and he trusts you're going to get your job done."
​

I think what he says is interesting, and his success as a coach backs up the importance of his words.

HockeyNebula

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[Disappointed EP40]

People mock it when it is wrongly prioritized.

Skill >>>>> Culture

 

[valkynax]

That's very cute.

Culture only means something if you have the strength to back it up. It's not a blank check for incompetence.

And accountability is something this organization does not have.

Right now "culture" and "hard working" are being overused here because this team really got nothing else to show for.

Five years, we're one of the most laughably bad teams in the league.

What kind of culture do we have when players like Sutter and Eriksson makes a combined 10 f***ing million a year?

 

[krutovsdonut]

great post by the op. it's funny that you can look at the immediate smartass dismissive responses in this thread and you see in this subforum mirrored what an nhl coach has to overcome. i guess we are the edmonton oilers of subforums.

 

[Wildcarder]

People mock it when it is wrongly prioritized.

Skill >>>>> Culture

1. They are not mutually exclusive things

2. Really? Because the Islanders lost a lot of skill last off-season and they arguably have less skill than the Canucks. Yet one of the teams made the playoffs this year and the other has missed it for another consecutive year.

 

[Hit the post]

1. They are not mutually exclusive things

2. Really? Because the Islanders lost a lot of skill last off-season and they arguably have less skill than the Canucks. Yet one of the teams made the playoffs this year and the other has missed it for another consecutive year.

Tough to enforce accountability on a guy just happy to collect his guaranteed six million. Or perhaps they should just ship his butt to the Comets. Course then you have to deal with his “leadership” skills infecting our prospects there.

 

[CloutierForVezina]

Here on HFCanucks, we're watching a rebuilding team trying to establish themselves and their identity. The word "culture" gets used a lot.

Some people mock the idea of culture. But it's important on every team and in every organization that involves a lot of people. Not just sports teams.

Nobody mocks the idea of culture. People mock the idea of spending tens of millions of valuable cap space and loads of valuable asset to try to chase an elusive magical culture that will fix everything. People mock the idea of justifying every single bad decision and stupid trade with "but mah culture!".

NYI fixed their culture by spending $0 in cap space and hiring Trotz. That's what the Canucks should be chasing.

 

[Krnuckfan]

The canucks are tied with the coyotes and sabres for the most regulation losses with 157 over the last 4 seasons. Having a good culture without results means nothing.

 

[MarkMM]

Culture definitely matters, I think the issue I've had with its use with the Canucks is either when it's used as a crutch for otherwise bad decisions or when there's inconsistency in building a culture.

We traded Kassian for an older, less skilled, more expensive Prust on the guise that this was about Prust being such a great culture role-model...then within a season had to dump him for among other things, his bad attitude toward not being happy with how he was being deployed. Oh, and of course with Benning, we somehow were convinced to ADD a pick to the trade.

A strong culture requires consistency, transparency and integrity. Mike Babcock wrote a good book about his approach to building team culture, and management and leadership has to give the players the sense that all sides are held accountable, otherwise there is no basis to trust everyone to do their part if you do yours. When Benning says we're building a team to compete in the playoffs and trades and signs accordingly, only to repeatedly fall flat on his face doing so AND THEN switching his story at the end of the year saying that the plan all along is to retool and build for the future, there isn't going to be the sense that you can trust management's word or their competence. Either Benning is a fool, or a liar, or quite possibly both, but that's not the basis to trust the team you're on.

If you look at high performing teams, either in business, military or sports, there is a culture of excellence where there is no compromise that everyone is accountable from the athletic trainers to the star athletes. Eriksson, Sbisa, Prust, Gudbranson, Sutter, Hamhuis, etc, etc, where is Benning's accountability?

Culture matters, and our culture is rotting from the top.

 

[Hit the post]

Culture definitely matters, I think the issue I've had with its use with the Canucks is either when it's used as a crutch for otherwise bad decisions or when there's inconsistency in building a culture.

We traded Kassian for an older, less skilled, more expensive Prust on the guise that this was about Prust being such a great culture role-model...then within a season had to dump him for among other things, his bad attitude toward not being happy with how he was being deployed. Oh, and of course with Benning, we somehow were convinced to ADD a pick to the trade.

A strong culture requires consistency, transparency and integrity. Mike Babcock wrote a good book about his approach to building team culture, and management and leadership has to give the players the sense that all sides are held accountable, otherwise there is no basis to trust everyone to do their part if you do yours. When Benning says we're building a team to compete in the playoffs and trades and signs accordingly, only to repeatedly fall flat on his face doing so AND THEN switching his story at the end of the year saying that the plan all along is to retool and build for the future, there isn't going to be the sense that you can trust management's word or their competence. Either Benning is a fool, or a liar, or quite possibly both, but that's not the basis to trust the team you're on.

If you look at high performing teams, either in business, military or sports, there is a culture of excellence where there is no compromise that everyone is accountable from the athletic trainers to the star athletes. Eriksson, Sbisa, Prust, Gudbranson, Sutter, Hamhuis, etc, etc, where is Benning's accountability?

Culture matters, and our culture is rotting from the top.

Lucic was an even more hilarious attempt at “culture”. Yeah going after a guy that your big money free agent signing thinks is a piece of **** is going to improve the culture on the team.

I’m not knocking the concept at what Trotz is saying (who am I to question one of, if not the best head coaches in the league), but rather taking a shot at Elmer & the rest of the stooges.

 

[F A N]

What this team needs is a Matt Martin or Jay Beagle... oh wait...

 

[krutovsdonut]

character and a winning culture is not something you order off the rack by hiring the mathematically identifiable right culture coach or signing an identifiable right culture player. it is more a case that you target guys like that and sometimes a player or coach does the trick. you might have to try several times to get it right, the same as you do in a draft.

and the idea that culture can wait until you have skill is ridiculous. the oilers and sabres and vegas all say "hi". culture needs to be a priority from day one all the time.

and erikkson was not a character or culture signing. he was signed as a 30 goal scorer with a history of playing with the sedins. i hated and hate the signing but i have never seen it as a failed attempt to build team culture.

and, for that matter, chasing lucic was a stab at toughening up the sedin era lineup by adding an intimidating player who could play a regular shift. this is a time honoured move that still pays dividends, as washington and vegas will tell you. it is a cultural move, but not the kind of cultural move trotz is talking about. the lucic's of the world are generally as much a challenge to a team culture as an asset.

 

[Fire Benning]

People don't mock the idea of establishing a culture, they mock how this regime has gone about trying to establish it.

Trying to establish a culture doesn't give a free pass for woeful mismanagement like trading for useless bums like Gudbranson and Prust, both moves that were made with the goal of developing a good culture. The preaching of culture and accountability has been going on for a while, it's all fluff until you can back it up with results.

If we want to bring up accountability can we please talk about how this organization constantly gives undeserved salary raises and boatloads of ice time to terrible players? Accountability has been nonexistent in this organization for years and that's a problem.

 

[Fire Benning]

Jay Beagle

Yeah and having him really helped us out this year.

 

[mossey3535]

Except if you're using Trotz as an example, he's come in to two situations now where in short order he established a culture. The Islanders are less talented than Washington, but he's managed to turn it around and make the team more consistent within a season. In Washington I think he was figuring it out and hadn't completely learned from Nashville. He made the same playoff mistakes until the last season.

More importantly both teams didn't see a lot of turnover, so his influence clearly made a dfiference.

Maybe the problem isn't culture but that our management and coaching talks a big game but doesn't acquire the players or have the accountability to achieve the culture they talk about all the time.

 

[mossey3535]

The canucks are tied with the coyotes and sabres for the most regulation losses with 157 over the last 4 seasons. Having a good culture without results means nothing.

Also, IMO it is easy to argue that we have neither the culture or the results.

 

[MadaCanuckle]

Also, IMO it is easy to argue that we have neither the culture or the results.

There's also the part where he scratched players who were underperforming, regardless of contract, age or status on the team. A winning culture and meritocracy are very related and Canucks have a some sacred cows and some whipping boys. But Barry is an amazing coach.

 

[Hit the post]

and, for that matter, chasing lucic was a stab at toughening up the sedin era lineup by adding an intimidating player who could play a regular shift. this is a time honoured move that still pays dividends, as washington and vegas will tell you. it is a cultural move, but not the kind of cultural move trotz is talking about. the lucic's of the world are generally as much a challenge to a team culture as an asset.

Considering the history with Miller, it we were lucky ( in many different ways) he didn't sign here.

 

[DL44]

Gillis on the need for leadership and culture

 

[vancityluongo]

character and a winning culture is not something you order off the rack by hiring the mathematically identifiable right culture coach or signing an identifiable right culture player. it is more a case that you target guys like that and sometimes a player or coach does the trick. you might have to try several times to get it right, the same as you do in a draft.

and the idea that culture can wait until you have skill is ridiculous. the oilers and sabres and vegas all say "hi". culture needs to be a priority from day one all the time.

and erikkson was not a character or culture signing. he was signed as a 30 goal scorer with a history of playing with the sedins. i hated and hate the signing but i have never seen it as a failed attempt to build team culture.

and, for that matter, chasing lucic was a stab at toughening up the sedin era lineup by adding an intimidating player who could play a regular shift. this is a time honoured move that still pays dividends, as washington and vegas will tell you. it is a cultural move, but not the kind of cultural move trotz is talking about. the lucic's of the world are generally as much a challenge to a team culture as an asset.

Haven't seen you in a while! Good to have you back here posting.

Disagree completely with this though.

How exactly are you trying to craft a point by including the words "winning" "oilers" "lucic" and "culture" all in the same post without seeing how that would immediately blow up? And you're trying to say that the Oilers have too much skill and not enough culture?

 

[mossey3535]

There's also the part where he scratched players who were underperforming, regardless of contract, age or status on the team. A winning culture and meritocracy are very related and Canucks have a some sacred cows and some whipping boys. But Barry is an amazing coach.

This happened extremely rarely.

Wait...do you mean Trotz did this? Ok, that sounds right.

Green did not.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

My opinion is that many of the critics who dismiss culture and mock the idea of trying to establish it, just don't really understand what it is. Maybe most of the critics are younger people who don't understand it yet.

I love this genre of post where some guy with no avatar posts a screed directed at imaginary people with imaginary opinions.

 

[Hockey Nebula]

People don't mock the idea of establishing a culture, they mock how this regime has gone about trying to establish it.

Trying to establish a culture doesn't give a free pass for woeful mismanagement like trading for useless bums like Gudbranson and Prust, both moves that were made with the goal of developing a good culture. The preaching of culture and accountability has been going on for a while, it's all fluff until you can back it up with results.

If we want to bring up accountability can we please talk about how this organization constantly gives undeserved salary raises and boatloads of ice time to terrible players? Accountability has been nonexistent in this organization for years and that's a problem.

"Accountability has been nonexistent in this organization for years and that's a problem."

Lol. I seem to remember a couple twin brothers who were always accountable. But I guess that's "nonexistent for years."

 

[Hockey Nebula]

I love this genre of post where some guy with no avatar posts a screed directed at imaginary people with imaginary opinions.

Lol. And having an avatar would prove what exactly?

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

Lol. And having an avatar would prove what exactly?

I think the combination of no avatar and railing against imaginary enemies is very Old Man Yells at Cloud