Speculation: Barrie

[zeke]

Unless you're trading away damaged goods I don't see why injuries are relevant

If you're arguing about how the trade "turned out", I'm not sure why you'd ignore injuries.

 

[zeke]

Barrie w/Babs: 23gms, 21:33, 0gl/25pt pace, -11, 46.6xgf%
Barrie w/Keefe: 47gms, 22:02, 9gl/56pt pace, +4, 50.9xgf%

 

[ACC1224]

If you're arguing about how the trade "turned out", I'm not sure why you'd ignore injuries.

Kadri being injured in Colorado has no bearing on how the players returned performed here.

 

[zeke]

Kadri being injured in Colorado has no bearing on how the players returned performed here.

So nothing kadri has done in colorado has any bearing on the trade. We can only judge based on what kadri was doing for us.

 

[deletethis]

Can we compare Kadri's 2020-21 season to Kerfoot's? That's gonna be ugly.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

In retrospect it was a bad move, especially given the lack of term on Barrie’s deal. Kadri getting suspended twice in the playoffs sucked, but people have to remember why, and it’s because he was standing up for teammates when no one else on our team would. Teams know they can push us around when they play us (obviously pre Clifford), especially now that the only bite we had on our team in Kadri is gone. I think Dubas might have lacked a little patience here.

 

[ACC1224]

So nothing kadri has done in colorado has any bearing on the trade. We can only judge based on what kadri was doing for us.

Kadri's play has bearing for Colorado fans, seems like they are pretty happy with him.
Yes we judge on what was lost vs what was returned.
As I said, it's fine if you're happy with the return. The other 99% of the fan base would have like to have seen it work out a little better.

 

[Mickey Marner]

I agree it was time to move on but I don't think there was a rush to do it. He could have started the season and been moved later.
IMO, he was moved when he was because the Leafs liked the return.

Agreed. Kadri would've been the best center available regardless of when he's traded, but he was moved at his nadir. Waiting for a defense-heavy team like Dallas, Columbus or Nashville to sweat a bit likely would've garnered a better return.

 

[zeke]

Kadri's play has bearing for Colorado fans, seems like they are pretty happy with him.
Yes we judge on what was lost vs what was returned.
As I said, it's fine if you're happy with the return. The other 99% of the fan base would have like to have seen it work out a little better.

Colorado fans are happy with everything this year, its been a great ride for them. Even with Kadri injured, hasn't impacted their success at all.

Toronto's season has been a disappointment, and the fans are angry about everything. Especially here (though curiously, not a lot of hate for the clearest underperformer).

That doesn't mean we can't analyze hot takes more objectively and accurately, of course.

 

[deletethis]

In retrospect it was a bad move, especially given the lack of term on Barrie’s deal. Kadri getting suspended twice in the playoffs sucked, but people have to remember why, and it’s because he was standing up for teammates when no one else on our team would. Teams know they can push us around when they play us (obviously pre Clifford), especially now that the only bite we had on our team in Kadri is gone. I think Dubas might have lacked a little patience here.

Kadri clearly cares about competing, sticking up for his teammates, responding to the opposition. I still say if the uniforms were reversed and a Bruin did either of those "hits" there wouldn't have been a suspension. The 2018 suspension wouldn't even have been a penalty to most players on most team. I have little doubt. And for goodness sake, 15 years ago neither one of those plays would have been penalties in a playoff game. Historical highlight clips of Wendel Clark or Darcy Tucker celebrates worse incidents few of which were penalties let alone suspensions. Nazem Kadri got run out of town for being a light version of Wendel Clark or Darcy Tucker. I still think it's shameful.

 

[zeke]

In retrospect it was a bad move, especially given the lack of term on Barrie’s deal. Kadri getting suspended twice in the playoffs sucked, but people have to remember why, and it’s because he was standing up for teammates when no one else on our team would. Teams know they can push us around when they play us (obviously pre Clifford), especially now that the only bite we had on our team in Kadri is gone. I think Dubas might have lacked a little patience here.

Did boston push us around? I don't remember that. I do remember their PP destroying us, though.

 

[ACC1224]

Agreed. Kadri would've been the best center available regardless of when he's traded, but he was moved at his nadir. Waiting for a defense-heavy team like Dallas, Columbus or Nashville to sweat a bit likely would've garnered a better return.

Perhaps. IMO, I think Dubas was happy with the return so pulled the trigger. I don't fault him for that, they all won't work out.

 

[ACC1224]

Colorado fans are happy with everything this year, its been a great ride for them. Even with Kadri injured, hasn't impacted their success at all.

Toronto's season has been a disappointment, and the fans are angry about everything. Especially here (though curiously, not a lot of hate for the clearest underperformer).

That doesn't mean we can't analyze hot takes more objectively and accurately, of course.

Agreed, this trade was certainly one of the disappointments.

I'm not angry though, things have gone pretty much as expected.

 

[zeke]

Agreed, this trade was certainly one of the disappointments.

I'm not angry though, things have gone pretty much as expected.

Yup not angry at all, just in a strange rush to dismiss any analysis which questions your hunches, even when it requires you to contradict yourself.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The other 99% of the fan base would have like to have seen it work out a little better.

You don't speak for 99% of the fanbase. You don't even speak for the majority of the fanbase.

 

[Martin Skoula]

In retrospect it was a bad move, especially given the lack of term on Barrie’s deal. Kadri getting suspended twice in the playoffs sucked, but people have to remember why, and it’s because he was standing up for teammates when no one else on our team would. Teams know they can push us around when they play us (obviously pre Clifford), especially now that the only bite we had on our team in Kadri is gone. I think Dubas might have lacked a little patience here.

Throwing a headshot on Boston's 3rd liner isn't standing up for your teammates, it's a temper tantrum because he got hit himself. He didn't target one of Boston's top guys to send a message, he didn't fight someone to send a message, he just threw a borderline hit at the closest guy he saw because he was having a temper tantrum.

If DeBrusk is running around, you don't take out DeBrusk, you start going after McAvoy and Pastrnak the next shift. DeBrusk literally wants you to do something stupid to him to get you suspended, that's his gameplan from the start.

 

[robertmac43]

Watch Barrie score a big goal in game 7 during these pandemic playoffs. It just feels like the kind of random thing that would happen at this point.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Kadri clearly cares about competing, sticking up for his teammates, responding to the opposition. I still say if the uniforms were reversed and a Bruin did either of those "hits" there wouldn't have been a suspension. The 2018 suspension wouldn't even have been a penalty to most players on most team. I have little doubt. And for goodness sake, 15 years ago neither one of those plays would have been penalties in a playoff game. Historical highlight clips of Wendel Clark or Darcy Tucker celebrates worse incidents few of which were penalties let alone suspensions. Nazem Kadri got run out of town for being a light version of Wendel Clark or Darcy Tucker. I still think it's shameful.

People do not understand because hockey has gotten way softer past 20 years. Wendy would take his hand behind a guys head along wall and smash a guys face into glass many many times no penalty ever even regular season. Once even broke a guys nose in playoffs no penalty. It is a different game today. If you were at game 2 in Boston last playoffs like I was you would have seen despicable acts of violence far worse than what Kadri did. But our guys did not lay down on ice like DeBrusk did to try to get a penalty call. When it came out that DeBrusk was laughing when on ice behind his gloves it should have been a 1 year suspension for him for mockery of da game.

 

[deletethis]

People do not understand because hockey has gotten way softer past 20 years. Wendy would take his hand behind a guys head along wall and smash a guys face into glass many many times no penalty ever even regular season. Once even broke a guys nose in playoffs no penalty. It is a different game today. If you were at game 2 in Boston last playoffs like I was you would have seen despicable acts of violence far worse than what Kadri did. But our guys did not lay down on ice like DeBrusk did to try to get a penalty call. When it came out that DeBrusk was laughing when on ice behind his gloves it should have been a 1 year suspension for him for mockery of da game.

I hear his ol' dad is still in the shower scrubbing himself raw trying to remove the shame he feels having spawned a weasel of a hockey player.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I hear his ol' dad is still in the shower scrubbing himself raw trying to remove the shame he feels having spawned a weasel of a hockey player.

Too bad it is a different game in a different time but I am sure an embarrassment for his old man ... if it happened in my days da teammates would have shamed him bad ... no one used to lay on da ice like that ... you get hit, you get up and fight or you skate to bench

 

[ACC1224]

Yup not angry at all, just in a strange rush to dismiss any analysis which questions your hunches, even when it requires you to contradict yourself.

Wasn't dismissing any analysis, just adding some clarity.
Not sure what the contradiction is.

I know it's very important for some to feel they are always correct. I'm not so insecure.

 

[ottomaddox]

Barrie's 39 points in 70 games is not terrible at all. I know it feels like we lost the trade badly, but was Barrie's season terrible? On pace for 46 points is not bad. I don't want to defend him too extensively. We all wish he could have brough more.

 

[rimshot]

It has been a long time since the last off season but I vaguely remember Dubas completing a trade with Calgary for Kadri. How did that trade work out? We can never know because Kadri vetoed the trade. Dubas did not veto the trade, Kadri did. I find it difficult to fault Dubas for, perhaps, not maximizing Kadri's trade value. I have no difficulty blaming Kadri for minimizing his own trade value because that was his stated objective. Kari wished to make it as difficult as he could to be traded from the Leafs and people are blaming Dubas for not maximizing his trade value? Does such a situation ever end well?Can anyone name any other player in any sport that returned a better player to their team after vetoing a trade? I am not saying there is no such case, only that I can not think of one at the moment.

 

[Menzinger]

Can we compare Kadri's 2020-21 season to Kerfoot's? That's gonna be ugly.

One way or the other We wont have a better understanding of the ultimate impact of the trade until we see how Kadri snd Kerfoot compare over the next couple seasons.

 

[zeke]

Wasn't dismissing any analysis, just adding some clarity.
Not sure what the contradiction is.

I know it's very important for some to feel they are always correct. I'm not so insecure.

Yep, so secure that you just cannot stand for any evidence that contradicts your opinion.