Barrie vs Brodie
- Thread starter Deadly Dogma
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Pyrophorus
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I do agree Barrie is a systems player, but in the right system he's a very solid #2/3. Ideally #3 as his defensive game was inconsistent on the Avs, but you're definitely bias against Barrie. If both players are in their ideal environment, Barrie is the better player. Brodie does bring more in a plug and play type of lineup where he can fit into most systems, all depends on your team. If I had to build a defense around Brodie or Barrie, I wouldn't hesitate to choose Barrie. If you just need another complimentary defenseman to fit into your system, Brodie is the better option.
I think it's pretty clear that Tyson Barrie is a more individually productive Brett Lebda. Brodie, on the other hand, is that smooth, steady and defensively minded puck-moving guy. Solid, if unspectacular.
I doubt there are many fans - and I am certainly not one of them - who have actually seen enough of both players to make a great qualitative comparison, though. But, a few games into the season, and he is definitely a really sold #2-3 D-man. Probably even underpaid.
I doubt there are many fans - and I am certainly not one of them - who have actually seen enough of both players to make a great qualitative comparison, though. But, a few games into the season, and he is definitely a really sold #2-3 D-man. Probably even underpaid.
Barrie was a very poor fit on the Leafs, there are certainly teams where he fits better. Rielly was as good or better on PP1, and a huge part of Barrie's value is being a strong PP guy. In the new NHL, where it's basically always 4F 1D on the PP, you really just have one dman getting heavy PP minutes, one light PP minutes, and all other dmen essentially no minutes. There's a lot of value in your 1st high end PP dman, but little marginal value in your 2nd and beyond. On top of that, Barrie just didn't fit well with Rielly OR Muzzin, so at even strength he wasn't very useful for us.
Even on a team where he fits well, though, he isn't a great ES player, because he's a bit undersized and a liability in his own end. +/- is an overly simplistic stat, but even still, look at his numbers the past 6 seasons:
I think it's fair to say that he's a PP specialist, who can bring offence and puck moving at even strength, but is a liability in terms of defensive play and physicality. He needs a really, really good fit team wise to have a positive impact as a top 4 dman at ES.
Brodie is kind of the opposite. Won't get much PP time, but he's very good on the PK. Very reliable at ES - great defensive positioning and mobility, great gap control, really smart on breakouts, makes few mistakes. The main thing he lacks is physicality - he has decent size, but doesn't hit much at all, definitely a guy who defends with positioning, smarts and a good stick, vs. punishing guys physically. Sometimes you want that nastiness, and he doesn't bring it, but he's still a very good defensive player. I think he's a pretty ideally partner for a more dynamic dman (Gio, Rielly, etc.), who needs someone to hold the fort while they go roaming. Most teams would happily give Brodie tough minutes on their 1st or 2nd pair at ES.
Overall, give me Brodie by a good margin, especially in the new "4F 1D power play" NHL. If Barrie isn't the clear best PP dman on your team, and/or you don't have a perfect fit partner for him at ES, you'll probably be disappointed with what he contributes. While I think the very steady, reliable ES and PK contributions of Brodie is something basically every team wants. There's a reason why Barrie got a 1-year, $3.75 mil "prove it" contract, while Brodie got 4 years at $5 mil.
Even on a team where he fits well, though, he isn't a great ES player, because he's a bit undersized and a liability in his own end. +/- is an overly simplistic stat, but even still, look at his numbers the past 6 seasons:
- 2015/16: -16, 3rd worst on the team
- 2016/17: -34, tied for worst on the team
- 2017/18: -15, tied for 2nd worst on the team
- 2018/19: -3, 9th worst on the team (4th worst among players with 70+ gp)
- 2019/20: -7, tied for worst on the team
- 2020/21: -4, it's very early but he's tied for 2nd worst on the team
I think it's fair to say that he's a PP specialist, who can bring offence and puck moving at even strength, but is a liability in terms of defensive play and physicality. He needs a really, really good fit team wise to have a positive impact as a top 4 dman at ES.
Brodie is kind of the opposite. Won't get much PP time, but he's very good on the PK. Very reliable at ES - great defensive positioning and mobility, great gap control, really smart on breakouts, makes few mistakes. The main thing he lacks is physicality - he has decent size, but doesn't hit much at all, definitely a guy who defends with positioning, smarts and a good stick, vs. punishing guys physically. Sometimes you want that nastiness, and he doesn't bring it, but he's still a very good defensive player. I think he's a pretty ideally partner for a more dynamic dman (Gio, Rielly, etc.), who needs someone to hold the fort while they go roaming. Most teams would happily give Brodie tough minutes on their 1st or 2nd pair at ES.
Overall, give me Brodie by a good margin, especially in the new "4F 1D power play" NHL. If Barrie isn't the clear best PP dman on your team, and/or you don't have a perfect fit partner for him at ES, you'll probably be disappointed with what he contributes. While I think the very steady, reliable ES and PK contributions of Brodie is something basically every team wants. There's a reason why Barrie got a 1-year, $3.75 mil "prove it" contract, while Brodie got 4 years at $5 mil.
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TheKrebsCycle
Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
TheKrebsCycle
Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
Hes apparently being deployed in a semi defensive manner, so as silly as it might sound it's possible it happens.
TheKrebsCycle
Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
TheKrebsCycle
Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
Low hanging fruit I guess; Maybe you're unclear what hard matching is, beyond the vague homophobic intimation?
Lainehasaweirdface
Registered User
- May 14, 2015
- 856
- 597
Brodie is more steady and will fit better with the Leafs' needs than Barrie did. But I think Barrie is the better player. He was god awful last year and still paced for ~45 points. Barrie should basically have the role he had in Colorado back this year. I expect gaudy point totals for him, however I don't think Edmonton has the other pieces on the back end to insulate Barrie at 5v5 so ultimately I think he ends up being less valuable to Edm than Brodie will be for the Leafs.
Are people really calling Brodie steady defensively? 
If he is steady defensively what is Rielly then? Rod Langway 2.0 in his own zone?
If he is steady defensively what is Rielly then? Rod Langway 2.0 in his own zone?
Easy there guy. Nothing phobic about it. Don’t make more out of it than need be. Sometimes people can have fun on this site. Not everything needs to be a pissing contest.
banks
Only got 5/16
- Aug 29, 2019
- 3,434
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Here's his average ice time this season (so far) and the previous 3 seasons:
20-21 22:19
19-20 20:27
18-19 21:28
17-18 23:41
A guy getting 20-23 minutes TOI is "ideally" a bottom pairing guy?
By the way, he has never failed to get get 20 points in a full NHL season. He missed that mark pre-2013 when he was still spending time in the AHL, and again last season when the season was cut short (still got 19).
Your first claim is garbage, and your second is a straight up lie.
Bounces R Way
Registered User
Brodie has gone from playing with one of the best top pairing defenseman in the league defensively in Giordano to one of the worst in Rielly. Going to be an adjustment period.
Llamamoto
Nice Bison. Kind Bison. Yep.
- Sep 5, 2018
- 8,855
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Have you been watching Oilers games this year? Barrie's been one of our best defensemen, and he's improving with every game. He was rock-solid defensively against the Leafs.
Barrie is a great player. He was absurdly scapegoated in Toronto and to an extent in Colorado because of the shiny new things in Makar and Girard. With that being said, he ranges from barely above average defensively to bad. But his offensive game, especially transition D is top notch.
Using ToI to say which pairing a player is, would blow up in Toronto fan's faces when they realized how much Barrie actually played last year after keefe was brought on, and had a positive goal differential at 5on5.
He definitely wasn't the worst D they've ever seen, even though they like to parade that around.
LeafsNation75
Registered User
The only Defenseman last season for Toronto who was worse than Barrie was Cody Ceci, which isn't saying a lot.
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