Line Combos: Barrie the right shot powerplay Quaterback!

[Zybalto]

That reads like a very made up metric. There's nothing acceptable about 31 goals against in 9 games.

I agree, and its also not acceptable to throw blame on the defense when the goaltending has been so putrid. 5v5 save% saw a nice jump last night to go up to 27th best in the NHL, despite the Leafs giving up the 12th fewest high danger chances/60.

 

[Stephen]

I agree, and its also not acceptable to throw blame on the defense when the goaltending has been so putrid. 5v5 save% saw a nice jump last night to go up to 27th best in the NHL, despite the Leafs giving up the 12th fewest high danger chances/60.

I would put the blame more on defensive coverage before the goaltending. Frederik Andersen is getting the Felix Potvin treatment the last couple of years he was here.

 

[Zybalto]

I would put the blame more on defensive coverage before the goaltending. Frederik Andersen is getting the Felix Potvin treatment the last couple of years he was here.

You would be wrong though as every stat we track these things with shows that goaltending has been screwing with this team since February.

Heres what I posted back in the thread pointing out the team hadnt had a three game win streak since the one that ended Feb. 27th:

Leaf 5v5 numbers since February 28th, 2019:

CF%: 53.97 (5th in the NHL)
SCF%: 56.59 (1st! in the NHL)
Save %: 90.07 (29th in the NHL)

Freddy was banged up at the end of last year, Sparks imploded and both keepers have been bad to start the season this year but Freddy has turned the corner the last couple games so Im optimistic. You simply cant have a top 5 corsi%, dominate scoring differential and then blame a nearly league worst team save % on the D. It doesnt make sense.

 

[Stephen]

You would be wrong though as every stat we track these things with shows that goaltending has been screwing with this team since February.

Heres what I posted back in the thread pointing out the team hadnt had a three game win streak since the one that ended Feb. 27th:

Leaf 5v5 numbers since February 28th, 2019:

CF%: 53.97 (5th in the NHL)
SCF%: 56.59 (1st! in the NHL)
Save %: 90.07 (29th in the NHL)

Freddy was banged up at the end of last year, Sparks imploded and both keepers have been bad to start the season this year but Freddy has turned the corner the last couple games so Im optimistic. You simply cant have a top 5 corsi%, dominate scoring differential and then blame a nearly league worst team save % on the D. It doesnt make sense.

Or you could watch the games more often and see what kind of defensive breakdowns plague the Leafs and when they happen.

A classic example of which is a scoring line getting caught at the end of a shift at the attacking end of the ice, resulting in a lengthy siege getting cycled to death (no shot on goal) followed by a miscue in front of the net, puck squirts out to the high slot and ends up in the back of the net. Doesn't really show up in a CF% that looks too bad on paper but is ugly, predictable and happens too often.

 

[Zybalto]

Or you could watch the games more often and see what kind of defensive breakdowns plague the Leafs and when they happen.

A classic example of which is a scoring line getting caught at the end of a shift at the attacking end of the ice, resulting in a lengthy siege getting cycled to death (no shot on goal) followed by a miscue in front of the net, puck squirts out to the high slot and ends up in the back of the net. Doesn't really show up in a CF% that looks too bad on paper but is ugly, predictable and happens too often.

All teams suffer those kind of breakdowns and what makes corsi so effective in tracking possession is that there is eventually at least a shot at the net when a tired scoring line is out there, often multiple shots. taking that further down the rabbit whole you also have scoring chances against and ultimately high danger chances against (those high slot shots, etc..)

Last year, the Leafs were:

5v5 Corsi against/60: 59.33 (27th in the NHL)
5v5 shots against/60: 32.66 (27th in the NHL)
5v5 scoring chances against/60: 28.27 (25th in the NHL)
5v5 high danger chances against/60: 10.69 (18th in the NHL)

Hainsey had started to show his age, Gards back started to go in early Jan. and until Muzzin came along to stabilize the D, they had some brutal defensive months in the middle of the season. Freddy really had been carrying the team for much of the season but his drastic dip in play the last third covered up the fact Muzzin had made quite the impact on the depth of the D just when we needed it.

So far this year:

5v5 Corsi against/60: 55.53 (21st in the NHL)
5v5 shots against/60: 30.67 (19th in the NHL)
5v5 scoring chances against/60: 24.52 (16th in the NHL)
5v5 high danger chances against/60: 8.47 (12th in the NHL)

Even with the two new faces in the top 4 and no Dermott and despite one of the more brutal schedules to start the year, you can already see how much improved the D has been at preventing scoring chances while still being one of the top offensive teams in the league. I'd like to see a larger sample size of course but we should all be optimistic I think.

 

[ottawah]

That reads like a very made up metric. There's nothing acceptable about 31 goals against in 9 games.

Goals scored against you while on the ice is not made up.

But in any case, yes 31 in 9 is not good, but its hardly Ceci/Reilly being that bad.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I would put the blame more on defensive coverage before the goaltending. Frederik Andersen is getting the Felix Potvin treatment the last couple of years he was here.

Andersen is our MVP for my thinking going 3 years now. Starts slow every year and throws down.918 sv% like clockwork haha. Our most important player i believe

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Goals scored against you while on the ice is not made up.

But in any case, yes 31 in 9 is not good, but its hardly Ceci/Reilly being that bad.

Save % is not made up either and he has been stopping the puck with astute consistency for his entire time with us.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

It's really early in the season but, I haven't seen an 8m player in Barrie yet. He looks like a rich mans Jake Gardiner in that he is more flashy, but the same sorts of mistakes are right there. It's no different.

Barrie has 4 pts and is -4 on the super elite leafs. -63 career

Jake Gardiner 2pts -1 on CAR. +9 career.

Persoanlly, I am leaning towards Barrie being an overrated product by the Colorado hype train. Yes +/- matters over a career, it gives an idea of overall influence a player has. Negative players are not good to have and Toronto has always brought in these guys and preached intangibles etc.

I am trying to figure this out too. Is he misused then and not reaching or being held back from his offensive potential because Rielly takes his minutes?

 

[thewave]

I am trying to figure this out too. Is he misused then and not reaching or being held back from his offensive potential because Rielly takes his minutes?

I am seriously confused as well. I just heard Barrie, they show highlights of the guy for years and he looks pretty great with that skating. You get the guy and then it's sort of mistake after mistake, some nice skating and for this year, not really anything special in the way of production. I don't know what more to say other than I wouldn't pay 8m for that EVER.

 

[ottawah]

I am seriously confused as well. I just heard Barrie, they show highlights of the guy for years and he looks pretty great with that skating. You get the guy and then it's sort of mistake after mistake, some nice skating and for this year, not really anything special in the way of production. I don't know what more to say other than I wouldn't pay 8m for that EVER.

Exactly. They do not often shows the mistakes on highlights. I had to live for years in Ottawa of seeing Karlsson highlights on TV and the multitude of defensive deficiencies in person. Highlights are a very poor way to judge a player, although often, especially when they are in the west and I am in the east, highlights are all I see.

 

[thewave]

Exactly. They do not often shows the mistakes on highlights. I had to live for years in Ottawa of seeing Karlsson highlights on TV and the multitude of defensive deficiencies in person. Highlights are a very poor way to judge a player, although often, especially when they are in the west and I am in the east, highlights are all I see.

Totally agree and especially about the west. You hardly see these teams but for highlights and this happens a lot. Many a team signed bug UFA deals 6m+ and got stung as soon as year 1 because of conference change.

 

[Stephen]

All teams suffer those kind of breakdowns and what makes corsi so effective in tracking possession is that there is eventually at least a shot at the net when a tired scoring line is out there, often multiple shots. taking that further down the rabbit whole you also have scoring chances against and ultimately high danger chances against (those high slot shots, etc..)

Last year, the Leafs were:

5v5 Corsi against/60: 59.33 (27th in the NHL)
5v5 shots against/60: 32.66 (27th in the NHL)
5v5 scoring chances against/60: 28.27 (25th in the NHL)
5v5 high danger chances against/60: 10.69 (18th in the NHL)

Hainsey had started to show his age, Gards back started to go in early Jan. and until Muzzin came along to stabilize the D, they had some brutal defensive months in the middle of the season. Freddy really had been carrying the team for much of the season but his drastic dip in play the last third covered up the fact Muzzin had made quite the impact on the depth of the D just when we needed it.

So far this year:

5v5 Corsi against/60: 55.53 (21st in the NHL)
5v5 shots against/60: 30.67 (19th in the NHL)
5v5 scoring chances against/60: 24.52 (16th in the NHL)
5v5 high danger chances against/60: 8.47 (12th in the NHL)

Even with the two new faces in the top 4 and no Dermott and despite one of the more brutal schedules to start the year, you can already see how much improved the D has been at preventing scoring chances while still being one of the top offensive teams in the league. I'd like to see a larger sample size of course but we should all be optimistic I think.

Actually, not all teams suffer those breakdowns and not all teams suffer them at the frequency and regularity of the Leafs. Many teams don’t have the Leafs fire power and are way more respectful of the defensive side of things. These are often catastrophic breakdowns that really shouldn’t happen all that frequently especially if you fancy yourself a contender.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I am seriously confused as well. I just heard Barrie, they show highlights of the guy for years and he looks pretty great with that skating. You get the guy and then it's sort of mistake after mistake, some nice skating and for this year, not really anything special in the way of production. I don't know what more to say other than I wouldn't pay 8m for that EVER.

I am thinking trade bait asset retention. Lilly is already better defensively and was last cut likely because the team likes him and wanted to let him know he is close. Dump Ceci too and call up Sandin to play with Lilly as third pair.

I am really starting to question some of these summer decisions. Dubas is showing some rush in his plan I’m starting to think. He shouldn’t.

trade bait sounds good to me

 

[thewave]

I am thinking trade bait asset retention. Lilly is already better defensively and was last cut likely because the team likes him and wanted to let him know he is close. Dump Ceci too and call up Sandin to play with Lilly as third pair.

I am really starting to question some of these summer decisions. Dubas is showing some rush in his plan I’m starting to think. He shouldn’t.

trade bait sounds good to me

There are certainly some tweaks that cane be made... The way the current guys are playing Miky and Moore are better than AJ and Kappy. Barrie is an absolute adventure right now and I wouldn't want to take this into the PO at all.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

There are certainly some tweaks that cane be made... The way the current guys are playing Miky and Moore are better than AJ and Kappy. Barrie is an absolute adventure right now and I wouldn't want to take this into the PO at all.

I wouldn't either. Loose team defense again

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Barrie now has a 8 game streak with ZERO points. I feel bad for him not mad at him. I think dubas should trade him

 

[francis246]

They need to get Barrie on the top Power Play, then throw out Muzzin and Rielly for the second unit

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Barrie now has a 8 game streak with ZERO points. I feel bad for him not mad at him. I think dubas should trade him

Why on earth would you trade a player when he's at his lowest he'll ever be lol.

I've liked his play, with or without points. Obviously would like the points to be there too though.

 

[biotk]

Barrie now has a 8 game streak with ZERO points. I feel bad for him not mad at him. I think dubas should trade him

Longest pointless streak for Barrie since the fall of 2013 as far as I know.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Dude’s been underwhelming after he kicked ass in game one. It’s odd that he’s been so invisible while his partner Muzzin has been excelling.

 

[TopCheese]

he has been the biggest disappointment on the team this year IMO. I was expecting a puck rushing, high end offensive dman similar to reilly but he has barely been noticeable at all. I wouldn't even want to sign him at 6 mil the way hes playing

 

[thewave]

he has been the biggest disappointment on the team this year IMO. I was expecting a puck rushing, high end offensive dman similar to reilly but he has barely been noticeable at all. I wouldn't even want to sign him at 6 mil the way hes playing

He has been awful. For a guy that says he wants 8m lol, nobody looking at this is touching that.

 

[Hustlr]

Barrie the right shot bust.

Not looking like a **** spouting his mouth anymore eh? I’ll just say it again... 8x8

If this guy was actually eating 5.5 of our cap it would be a much different story.

 

[Hustlr]

Dude’s been underwhelming after he kicked ass in game one. It’s odd that he’s been so invisible while his partner Muzzin has been excelling.

He had a bad game 1. He made a bloody spin move and a flubbed pass that Mikey capitalized on(watch the closeup replay). His shot has been a muffin. Albeit he did let a couple slappers off in games 1/2/3. One in the 9 games since.