Barrie Colts 2019-20 Season Thread

[Jolting Joe]

Ownership is asking the season ticket holders for another rebuild be patient. How many times is this 3 times in the last 5 years??

 

[Fischhaber]

You value picks way too much lol.

I'd much rather Punnett ('03 1st round pick)+Cardwell(stud '02)+2 2nds+2 3rds than all lotto tickets.


You're not getting 1st round picks, you're getting 2nd round picks. The odds a 2nd round pick turns into a top 5/10 OHL scorer, 2 years in a row like Tomasino will be, is very, very, very low.

The odds a 2nd round pick even turns into a top 6 OHLer isn't above 50%, let alone he becomes a star

If Punnett and Cardwell were obvious star players then it would be a different story, but they are not.

Punnett was a very late first rounder who hasn't done much. That's no knock against his upside, but he's already less valuable than guys taken in later rounds like Chase Stillman, Ethan Burroughs, Paul Christopoulos, Marc Boudreau, and Tucker Robertson.

Cardwell looks like a decent young player, but we've seen better players like Billy Constantinou not even go for a 2nd rounder pretty recently.

We also can't discount the value of the other players that Barrie sent in the trade. All in all, this looks to be close to half of the value that Tomasino got and I reiterate that it should have been closer for Barrie.

 

[Generalsupdates]

If Punnett and Cardwell were obvious star players then it would be a different story, but they are not.

Punnett was a very late first rounder who hasn't done much. That's no knock against his upside, but he's already less valuable than guys taken in later rounds like Chase Stillman, Ethan Burroughs, Paul Christopoulos, Marc Boudreau, and Tucker Robertson.

Cardwell looks like a decent young player, but we've seen better players like Billy Constantinou not even go for a 2nd rounder pretty recently.

We also can't discount the value of the other players that Barrie sent in the trade. All in all, this looks to be close to half of the value that Tomasino got and I reiterate that it should have been closer for Barrie.

I strongly disagree.

The odds the 2nd round picks that NIA gets become as good of a goal scorer as Cardwell are very low.

Go back and look at previous drafts and how many 2nd round picks turn into stars in the OHL? Its below 20%. Draft picks value are in trading them for better players, not for keeping them to actually draft. If you could trade 1st round picks then that's a different story. But 2nd round picks in the OHL statistically don't turn out star players in a consistent manner. NIA would be extremely lucky if 1 of the picks they got turns into an "all-star" level player through the draft

Picks are magic beans. Cardwell+Punnett are already OHLers and Cardwell will be a star goal scorer I bet

 

[Millpond]

I'm

Ownership is asking the season ticket holders for another rebuild be patient. How many times is this 3 times in the last 5 years??

I really thought the Colts would build around Ryan Suzuki.

 

[Fischhaber]

I strongly disagree.

The odds the 2nd round picks that NIA gets become as good of a goal scorer as Cardwell are very low.

Go back and look at previous drafts and how many 2nd round picks turn into stars in the OHL? Its below 20%. Draft picks value are in trading them for better players, not for keeping them to actually draft. If you could trade 1st round picks then that's a different story. But 2nd round picks in the OHL statistically don't turn out star players in a consistent manner. NIA would be extremely lucky if 1 of the picks they got turns into an "all-star" level player through the draft

Picks are magic beans. Cardwell+Punnett are already OHLers and Cardwell will be a star goal scorer I bet

You can't assume that these young players are already stars when evaluating a trade. They may be, but their statistics do not lend creedence to that viewpoint. Obviously that's what Barrie did, but you are very wrong from an objective standpoint.

 

[mouse29]

Ownership is asking the season ticket holders for another rebuild be patient. How many times is this 3 times in the last 5 years??

This is not something new with Barrie. For years now ownership has been content to trade the farm just to get to the second round and grab those two extra gate receipts, and in the off chance they progress to the conference final. Their asset management has been piss poor for years now, and they have continually over-evaluated the talent on this team.

As a fan I suppose it is better than most teams but never really satisfy's. Keep remembering the early days of the Massey ownership, and the days of Marty and early DH as the head coach. I will never forget that loss to London with less than 1 sec left to play, or the win that took us to the Memorial cup.

OH how that seems so far away.

I for one like what they have done at this trade deadline, and might go so far as to say that I may consider renewing my seasons tickets for next year.

 

[mouse29]

I'm

I really thought the Colts would build around Ryan Suzuki.

I believe and certainly have no inside info but believe the Colts are looking @ 2022 for their run. Or at least I hope so. Suzucki did not fit into those plans.

 

[Bag O Pucks]

If Punnett and Cardwell were obvious star players then it would be a different story, but they are not.

Punnett was a very late first rounder who hasn't done much. That's no knock against his upside, but he's already less valuable than guys taken in later rounds like Chase Stillman, Ethan Burroughs, Paul Christopoulos, Marc Boudreau, and Tucker Robertson.

Cardwell looks like a decent young player, but we've seen better players like Billy Constantinou not even go for a 2nd rounder pretty recently.

We also can't discount the value of the other players that Barrie sent in the trade. All in all, this looks to be close to half of the value that Tomasino got and I reiterate that it should have been closer for Barrie.

I would disagree with this. Punnett has no numbers because he was a healthy scratch most nights. He is going to grow into a talented gritty D-man. Easily one of the toughest guys on the Spirit roster in his limited outings. Also, with the right wingers Cardwell is going to be a scoring machine. This works well if Barrie can develop them properly.

 

[Jolting Joe]

They need to tank now. Kids will get reamed by Rychel for doing what the GM wants...lose. Sad.

 

[From Up Top]

I'm

I really thought the Colts would build around Ryan Suzuki.

Suzuki hasn't looked that interested of late in Barrie, and has been floating of late... He's always struggled with the physical side of the game and avoids the dirty areas like the plague... Suzuki has great vision and amazing hands and I hope he is able to pick up his game in Saginaw.

 

[mouse29]

Suzuki hasn't looked that interested of late in Barrie, and has been floating of late... He's always struggled with the physical side of the game and avoids the dirty areas like the plague... Suzuki has great vision and amazing hands and I hope he is able to pick up his game in Saginaw.

agree 100%

 

[JetsColts13]

Quite the deadline for the Colts. Surprised they moved Suzuki, but that's a solid return coming back. I see some comments saying they have done this before, but they really haven't to this extent. The returns they got were unlike previous years and the draft pick cupboard hasn't likely ever been this full. Looking forward to seeing this young group develop.

 

[bcspragu]

You guys will love Cardwell and Punnett. Cardwell has speed to burn and has a good shot. Punnett is struggling a bit as a 16 year old, but has all the traits of a young gritty dman. Think 16 year old Justin Murray.

 

[Petes25]

What's everyone's thoughts on York? Just curious to what we are getting!

 

[Kingpin794]

I strongly disagree.

The odds the 2nd round picks that NIA gets become as good of a goal scorer as Cardwell are very low.

Go back and look at previous drafts and how many 2nd round picks turn into stars in the OHL? Its below 20%. Draft picks value are in trading them for better players, not for keeping them to actually draft. If you could trade 1st round picks then that's a different story. But 2nd round picks in the OHL statistically don't turn out star players in a consistent manner. NIA would be extremely lucky if 1 of the picks they got turns into an "all-star" level player through the draft

Picks are magic beans. Cardwell+Punnett are already OHLers and Cardwell will be a star goal scorer I bet

Cardwell is gonna be a PPG player next season. A guy like Suzuki or Kaliyev we're the only guys worth giving him up for.

 

[mouse29]

I see some comments saying they have done this before, but they really haven't to this extent.

Not sure what you mean LC, these seem to come to mind. But I am old and tend to forget things

1. Strome
2. Perlinni
3. Tucker
4. Piercy
5. Kreis

 

[JetsColts13]

What's everyone's thoughts on York? Just curious to what we are getting!

Great skater and puck mover. Rocket shot. Lacks a bit of consistency in his own end at times, but definitely capable. Nice add by the Petes.

 

[JetsColts13]

Not sure what you mean LC, these seem to come to mind. But I am old and tend to forget things

1. Strome
2. Perlinni
3. Tucker
4. Piercy
5. Kreis

In the case of Strome and Perlini it was a case of buying for a run. Kreis unfortunately was a bust. Tucker is selling to get future assets in a player who will be going pro. Piercey is an interesting one, but bringing Vierling back it is a change of scenery move.

What I'm alluding to overall is that in years of buying or selling, they haven't done it to this extent since 2010.

 

[dirty12]

You can't assume that these young players are already stars when evaluating a trade. They may be, but their statistics do not lend creedence to that viewpoint. Obviously that's what Barrie did, but you are very wrong from an objective standpoint.

maybe a little less wrong than your view of Cardwell vs Constantinou and your value put on an ‘03 - 1st.
No player other than Suzuki this deadline returned an ‘03-1st & a good ‘02 - 2nd round selected player & picks. Maybe, no team has re-tooled as well as fast as Barrie (Porco, Vierling, Punnett, Cardwell) while adding picks in a while

 

[Fischhaber]

maybe a little less wrong than your view of Cardwell vs Constantinou and your value put on an ‘03 - 1st.
No player other than Suzuki this deadline returned an ‘03-1st & a good ‘02 - 2nd round selected player & picks. Maybe, no team has re-tooled as well as fast as Barrie (Porco, Vierling, Punnett, Cardwell) while adding picks in a while

Your trolling is just too much. The guy is the top defenseman in his age group and is probably around for 3 years. No disrespect to Cardwell, but he isn't even top 10.

As for Barrie retooling quickly, that's expected when you have a lot of good players, including a first overall, and a lot of picks. The future looks good for the team since they draft quite well.

 

[dirty12]

Your trolling is just too much. The guy is the top defenseman in his age group and is probably around for 3 years. No disrespect to Cardwell, but he isn't even top 10.

As for Barrie retooling quickly, that's expected when you have a lot of good players, including a first overall, and a lot of picks. The future looks good for the team since they draft quite well.

constatinou is an excellent PP QB, not so good Defenceman. Certainly not the top D in Harley’s age group, not even close.

 

[Fischhaber]

constatinou is an excellent PP QB, not so good Defenceman. Certainly not the top D in Harley’s age group, not even close.

I won't convince someone with such a deep seated hatred for a team as you have, but he's been about average defensively since the trade. You are correct about Harley, I didn't get down to him while scanning the leaderboards.

The point here is that if a top 3 defenseman in his draft class can't get a 2nd round pick then a guy like Cardwell, who is 30th for points in his draft class, certainly isn't worth multiple 2nds. He profiles as a good bottom 6 guy or maybe top 6 as an OA.

 

[Savard18]

constatinou is an excellent PP QB, not so good Defenceman. Certainly not the top D in Harley’s age group, not even close.

Vukojevic? Kolyachonok?

 

[dirty12]

Vukojevic? Kolyachonok?

between us, if willing to take the time, we could probably come up with 15-25 2001 born D arguably better than Constantinou.

 

[HockeyPops]

between us, if willing to take the time, we could probably come up with 15-25 2001 born D arguably better than Constantinou.

I like Billy a lot, but there are other good D his age too. He had an off year his draft year, so has some catching up to do.

Maybe start with last year's NHL draft list.
25 OHL Players Selected in 2019 NHL Draft – Ontario Hockey League
Harley
Okhotyuk - import
Kolyachonok - import
Millman
Vukojevic - import
LeGuerrier (2000)
Murray
Hill

Not sure if any late birthdays belong in this conversation, if so add them to the list. Probably remove LeGuerrier since he is a late birthday.