Islanders Point Blank: Barclays Center paying Isles annually for relocating

Isles Fan

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Sep 12, 2006
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An ISLANDER CANNONBALL EXPRESS train -- westbound, 1/5 hours- 2 hours before every Isles game, on every westbound line. Having discounted tix, Icegirls throughout the car, onboard beer sales, and blowup Rangers dartboards, etc....

I don't expect to be going to many games i brooklyn if any however, that would be an AWESOME idea. Someone get on the horn ot the LIRR right aweay....lol!!!!!

Of course the Ranger fans would cry "where's ours?"
 

denis

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Feb 27, 2002
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The solution would be that the LIRR adds a couple of shuttle trains from Flatbush to Jamaica so people could have easier connections to the lines that operate out of Penn Station.
Ask and ye shall receive: the entire Brooklyn branch is being converted to a shuttle service (called the Cross-Borough Scoot) over the next several years. When done, everyone going to Brooklyn will need to change trains at Jamaica, but the shuttle will run between Atlantic terminal and Jamaica a lot more often -- every 7.5 minutes according to one article that I saw.
 

MJF

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Sep 6, 2003
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Ask and ye shall receive: the entire Brooklyn branch is being converted to a shuttle service (called the Cross-Borough Scoot) over the next several years. When done, everyone going to Brooklyn will need to change trains at Jamaica, but the shuttle will run between Atlantic terminal and Jamaica a lot more often -- every 7.5 minutes according to one article that I saw.

That initiative is in conjunction with the LIRR's East Side Access project, which is not supposed to be up and running until 2019. The main point of which is a dedicated platform to still be built at Jamaica for the Scoot. The 7 1/2 minute headway will be during rush hours. Off-peak headways will be 15 minutes midweek.

The initiation of Cross Borough Scoot service between Jamaica and Brooklyn
will coincide with the opening of East Side Access Service to Grand Central
Terminal, so it will not begin operating during the 2010-2014 Capital Program
time period. The Jamaica Capacity Improvements project will construct a
new platform at Jamaica Station, along with track, signal and switch
infrastructure, which will allow for dedicated Brooklyn to Jamaica train
routing. The LIRR Cross Borough Scoot will operate between Jamaica and
Flatbush Avenue, making all stops (Jamaica, East New York, Nostrand
Avenue, and Flatbush Avenue). LIRR multiple-unit electric cars (anticipated
to be six car consists) will be used for this service. All Brooklyn Flatbush
services will require a transfer at Jamaica to the new Cross Borough Scoot.
The fare for service between Jamaica and Brooklyn will remain the same
(Brooklyn stations in Zone 1 and Jamaica in Zone 3). Cross Borough Scoot
service frequencies between Jamaica and Brooklyn will be greatly increased
as compared with current levels of service:
• Peak-direction rush hour service would continue to operate every 7 ½
minutes
• Reverse-peak rush hour service would go from every 20 minutes today to
every 10 minutes
• Mid-day off-peak service would go from every 30 minutes today to every 15
minutes
• Late night (midnight to 6 AM) frequency would remain the same – every
30 minutes.
from the MTA 2010-2014 Capital Budget.

http://mta.info/mta/pdf/2010-14questions_and_answers_v2.pdf


In the meantime, the Isles and Barclays would be best served to pay for some extra service out of Flatbush on the LIRR. The Yankees and Mets pay for the extra subway service on the 4, D and 7 trains after games.
 

MJF

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Sep 6, 2003
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I don't expect to be going to many games i brooklyn if any however, that would be an AWESOME idea. Someone get on the horn ot the LIRR right aweay....lol!!!!!

Of course the Ranger fans would cry "where's ours?"

They don't need it. There's enough service out of Penn Station at 10PM on a weeknight.
 

denis

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In the meantime, the Isles and Barclays would be best served to pay for some extra service out of Flatbush on the LIRR. The Yankees and Mets pay for the extra subway service on the 4, D and 7 trains after games.

There is extra LIRR service -- four extra trains worth. It just wasn't executed very well for the exhibition game, being set up instead to serve the later times Nets games and concerts end:
http://www.mta.info/lirr/getaways/TrainToTheGame/images/barclayscenterschedule.pdf
 

MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
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There is extra LIRR service -- four extra trains worth. It just wasn't executed very well for the exhibition game, being set up instead to serve the later times Nets games and concerts end:
http://www.mta.info/lirr/getaways/TrainToTheGame/images/barclayscenterschedule.pdf

Actually, I'm not sure the LIRR could have scheduled the first extra train any earlier. The specials have to run in between the regularly scheduled service leaving Flatbush. There is a window between 9:45 and 10:22. The earlier regular train is 9:22. Not much of a window. Maybe the LIRR could find a window to run a train out of FLAT at 9:37. All this has to be accomplished without causing a logjam at Jamaica.
 

Steve55

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Aug 21, 2005
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http://islanderspointblank.com/excl...rena-deal-risk-isles-get-financial-certainty/

A Point Blank source has seconded the WSJ’s report that the team would receive a large annual payment from the Barclays Center and has provided further details.

The source added that the payment to the Islanders would increase at a single-digit percentage annually. There are also stipulations in the agreement that could cause the payment to be reduced but the exact details of such stipulations were not known.

In exchange for the large lump sum payment each season, the source tells Point Blank that the Barclays Center will receive the majority of team revenues. Those revenue streams include ticketing, merchandising, suite sales and other revenue sources that Islander games at the Barclays Center will produce.

In the deal, the Islanders also agree to play most of their regular season games at the facility as well as a guarantee of three pre-season games per year...


This sounds like Wang will get paid to recoup his losses and sell when he has recovered what he lost. It may be a decade or more of Wang's ownership while he is recouping his losses. So how much is Wang going to get over the first decade in Brooklyn? If he dies, who will receive the money? Wang will be 80 in 2024.
 

blitzkriegs

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http://islanderspointblank.com/excl...rena-deal-risk-isles-get-financial-certainty/

A Point Blank source has seconded the WSJ’s report that the team would receive a large annual payment from the Barclays Center and has provided further details.

The source added that the payment to the Islanders would increase at a single-digit percentage annually. There are also stipulations in the agreement that could cause the payment to be reduced but the exact details of such stipulations were not known.

In exchange for the large lump sum payment each season, the source tells Point Blank that the Barclays Center will receive the majority of team revenues. Those revenue streams include ticketing, merchandising, suite sales and other revenue sources that Islander games at the Barclays Center will produce.

In the deal, the Islanders also agree to play most of their regular season games at the facility as well as a guarantee of three pre-season games per year...


This sounds like Wang will get paid to recoup his losses and sell when he has recovered what he lost. It may be a decade or more of Wang's ownership while he is recouping his losses. So how much is Wang going to get over the first decade in Brooklyn? If he dies, who will receive the money? Wang will be 80 in 2024.

Wang just wants his money back overtime ... and ... wants to maintain ownership of the franchise so if it wins, he is the 'hero' 'savior' whatever for his legacy.

The deal is essentially a glorified license of NYI to BC. BC bears the risk, but now has a new anchor tenant to increase occupancy, cross-marketing, etc.
 

doublechili

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Apr 11, 2006
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Okay, so Wang gets a cash payment every year from Barclay's.

Barclay's runs the business side of the Isles.

I wonder who gets what from all the revenue streams?

The answer to that question tells you to what extent Wang and/or Barclays actually "owns" the Isles. It kind of sounds like there may be some kind of planned transition in place.

To follow up on my own post from page 1, now we find out that Barclays gets a large part of the revenue stream in exchange for a lump sum payment to the Isles. Is there any precedent anywhere in sports for this kind of arrangement? Very strange. This news makes me think even more that this may be part of a transition of ownership.
 

Isles Fan

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Sep 12, 2006
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You know what this deal tells me? It tells me that Charles Wang has zero intention of pouring any money back into this team. In essence Ratner is renting the team for "x" amout of dollars, so, hypothetically, if the Isles were to bring in merchadising reveue on par with the Yankees, none of it goes back into the team, rather it all goes into Ratner's pocket and the funds available to improve the team stay stagnet.

The New York Islanders available revenue to improve the team is now stagnet, let that sink in! And don't tell me about the measly single digit percentage increases amounts to anything because it doesn't. Further proof Wang doesnt care about building a winner here.

So you know the supposed $35 million in additional revenue, guess what, dosen't mean a thing because Wang will not get any of it.

I always knew the move to Brooklyn was bad for this team but this has gone to levels that I hadn't even thought about. Charles Wang, the savior who fought so hard to keep the NYI in NY just screwed over his new arena owners. His take will certinly be more than a half empty area full of fans watching a borderline team struggle to make the 8th seed each year will bring in consessions, tickets and merchandising. No wonder Wang was OK with shoe horning them into Barclay's and could give a crap about 34% of seats being obstrcuted. He dosen t care!!!! With this deal he would have put them into the ice rink at Newbridge Park.

I have said it before and I will say it again, nothing Chrles Wang does is clean in any way what so ever. Once word of this ass backwards situation gets out to the sports world the NYI will solidify their top spot as laughing stock of the NHL.

If there is a silver lining, it is two fold. One is that if a new owner comes on board, they do not have to abide by this horrible rental agreement and get the hell out of Brooklyn, second is that once Wang has decided his pockets are adequatly stuffed he will sell. A third could be Ratner gets tired of getting the short end of the stick after a year or two and bails on Wang.

"Hi Garth? JT here, GET ME THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!!!!!"
 
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stranger34

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Mar 6, 2007
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Nassau County
so this begs the question... is a low budget middling team in BK preferable to a low budget middling team in Nassau? this is starting to sound like wang cutting a deal to stop the bleeding and ratner filling dates to pump up revenue.

It's low risk and mutually beneficial to both parties.
 

SI90

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Jul 25, 2011
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basically sounds like Wang is the owner on paper and is just getting an annual allowance...

how long before the Barclays group actually purchases the team?

And what incentive do they have to put money back into the team? ie UFA's



sounds shady to me. I cant see Wang spending his "allowance" on top UFA's or UFA's in general...
 

CREW99AW

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Mar 12, 2002
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Can we get in off the ledge, with the conspiracy nonsense?


There is a stipulation in the Barclay lease, that Wang could see his payment amount reduced. Yormark, Ratner and Wang want the isles to copy the Net success. The Nets greatly increased payroll, added star power to their roster and pushed the rebranding of their team jersey.

Yormark has already tried rebranding the isles jersey.Only the pushback from fans stopped him.Instead he will have a third jersey, a Brooklyn-NYI jersey.

.http://islanderspointblank.com/excl...isk-isles-get-financial-certainty/#more-43438
The source added that the payment to the Islanders would increase at a single-digit percentage annually. There are also stipulations in the agreement that could cause the payment to be reduced but the exact details of such stipulations were not known.

http://nypost.com/2012/08/23/fuhgeddaboudit-nets-value-soars-in-brooklyn/
Nets owner has seen the value of his investment more than double since he bought the team two years ago, thanks to the move into the more financially friendly Barclays Center.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/08/s...ns-to-brooklyn-and-get-new-ones-too.html?_r=0
Wang says he knows star power will be necessary to compete with the Rangers
 

CREW99AW

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Mar 12, 2002
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How did Ratner and Yormark, make the Nets one of the most valuable franchises in the NBA?


http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20120805/MEDIA_ENTERTAINMENT/308059985
The Nets are also tapping into Mr. Prokhorov's wallet.

But the buzz surrounding the move to Brooklyn has led to soaring sponsorship deals and ticket sales. The Nets have sold nearly 10,000 full-season tickets,

"Nothing makes you grow faster than success on the field of play," said Chris Lencheski, president of Philadelphia-based Front Row Marketing Services.

"We've become relevant," Mr. Yormark said. "We need to sustain that. That, to me, is the goal."
 

A Pointed Stick

No Idea About The Future
Dec 23, 2010
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Can we get in off the ledge, with the conspiracy nonsense?


There is a stipulation in the Barclay lease, that Wang could see his payment amount reduced. Yormark, Ratner and Wang want the isles to copy the Net success. The Nets greatly increased payroll, added star power to their roster and pushed the rebranding of their team jersey.

Yormark has already tried rebranding the isles jersey.Only the pushback from fans stopped him.Instead he will have a third jersey, a Brooklyn-NYI jersey.

.http://islanderspointblank.com/excl...isk-isles-get-financial-certainty/#more-43438
The source added that the payment to the Islanders would increase at a single-digit percentage annually. There are also stipulations in the agreement that could cause the payment to be reduced but the exact details of such stipulations were not known.

http://nypost.com/2012/08/23/fuhgeddaboudit-nets-value-soars-in-brooklyn/
Nets owner has seen the value of his investment more than double since he bought the team two years ago, thanks to the move into the more financially friendly Barclays Center.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/08/s...ns-to-brooklyn-and-get-new-ones-too.html?_r=0
Wang says he knows star power will be necessary to compete with the Rangers

Crew - First off thanks for posting those articles. I read the last one and would like to clear something up though. Here is the entirety of what Wang says about "star power."
Wang says he knows star power will be necessary to compete with the Rangers.

“John buys into the program. or he wouldn’t have committed to this number of years,” Wang said.
I read the whole article, and my take on his quote about star power is solely about Tavares. There is no mention or even allusion to getting more stars, or even help for his star.

Along these lines I have been hunting for info about the revenue sharing check that Wang has by now received for last year. It's sole purpose is so that teams like Chucky Cheapsters will be compelled to spend more on their roster. There are actual penalties tied to receiving a check and hanging out at the bottom of the team salary club. They want to see the money reinvested in the roster.

I am looking for how much Wang received. I want to see if that just happens to be the exact amount we are above the floor by, or if the roster's value is less than the floor + his revenue sharing check. If that is the case, then that needs to be front page news.
 
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CREW99AW

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Mar 12, 2002
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Crfew - First off thanks for posting those articles. I read the last one and would like to clear something up though. here is the entirety of what Wang says about "star power."

I read the whole article, and my take on his quote about star power is solely about Tavares. There is no mention or even allusion to getting more stars, or even help for his star.

Along these lines I have been hunting for info about the revenue sharing check that Wang has by now received for last year. It's sole purpose is so that teams like Chucky Cheapsters will be compelled to spend more on their roster. There are actual penalties tied to receiving a check and hanging out at the bottom of the team salary club. They want to see the money reinvested in the roster.

I am looking for how much Wang received. I want to see if that just happens to be the exact amount we are above the floor by, or if the roster's value is less than the floor + his revenue sharing check. If that is the case, then that needs to be front page news.

I believe the Isles get half a share. I had read that several months ago.

As for Wang saying the isles need star power and mentioning Tavares has star power... we have to remember that Wang will be getting a pretty hefty check from Ratner's group and he now will have to answer to them. That stipulation about decreased payments is clearly a penalty.

Barclays will get tix and merchandise sales. The isles tix and merchandise sales will be a concern for Ratner+ Yormark. How did they double the Nets franchise value, in two yrs? It was not by spending at the cap floor.

Do you remember when the isles were in talks, to extend their cable deal? Dolan wanted to put in a performance clause. It is not such a stretch to think the high spending Barclays group, would be leery of Wang's spending habits.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/11/sports/tv-sports-rich-cable-deal-lessens-isles-misery.html
Charles F. Dolan, the chairman of Cablevision, said the company tries to negotiate for provisions that guarantee a team's good faith to field quality products, ''but it's difficult to get them.''

Dolan added: ''We are contractually committed to the Islanders and we're not looking to escape our contract. We are encouraging them to have a better team.''
 

potvins4cups

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Aug 23, 2007
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Can we get in off the ledge, with the conspiracy nonsense?


There is a stipulation in the Barclay lease, that Wang could see his payment amount reduced. Yormark, Ratner and Wang want the isles to copy the Net success. The Nets greatly increased payroll, added star power to their roster and pushed the rebranding of their team jersey.
O
Why let facts get in the way of rational thinking. Oh yeah, that's right, I forgot. Those who hate the move are looking to conjure up any theory to discredit the move. Making stories and theories up as they go along. Just to fuel their agenda.
 

A Pointed Stick

No Idea About The Future
Dec 23, 2010
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I believe the Isles get half a share. I had read that several months ago.
Yes, that's their amount. There are incentives though for more money than half and it is tied to intent and results.
As for Wang saying the isles need star power and mentioning Tavares has star power... we have to remember that Wang will be getting a pretty hefty check from Ratner's group and he now will have to answer to them. That stipulation about decreased payments is clearly a penalty.
I am glad you brought that up because I see four reads on this:
1) He should invest in the club before he moves to help generate more interest the day they do move. Clearly, Chucky doesn't subscribe to that line of thought.
2) He will open his pocketbook up the summer before the move, or during the 1st season because he wants the income guaranteed. Ok, maybe, but maybe not because the more I think about it, I think that:
3) Chuck waiting until the entire first season is played and he has all the money counted and banked from the previous year is when he might spend on the club. But, it might take longer than that because the books aren't balanced until well after the UFA period starts sooooooo.....
4) Waiting until the end of the second year of his occupancy at Barclays would underwrite additions.

IMO, the end of year 2 is when he might do it. Of course by then Tavares is what, 26? 32? 50? Then salary attrition might give him an argument that we need to stay fluid paying Okposo and Bailey the heftier portion of their back loaded contracts.

LOL. I don't trust Wang bud. If he was sincere about improving the on ice product for Barclays he'd have started this summer. He didn't. IMO, he is going to remain the cheapest owner in the league for as long as he can.

Barclays will get tix and merchandise sales. The isles tix and merchandise sales will be a concern for Ratner+ Yormark. How did they double the Nets franchise value, in two yrs? It was not by spending at the cap floor.

Do you remember when the isles were in talks, to extend their cable deal? Dolan wanted to put in a performance clause. It is not such a stretch to think the high spending Barclays group, would be leery of Wang's spending habits.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/11/sports/tv-sports-rich-cable-deal-lessens-isles-misery.html
Charles F. Dolan, the chairman of Cablevision, said the company tries to negotiate for provisions that guarantee a team's good faith to field quality products, ''but it's difficult to get them.''

Dolan added: ''We are contractually committed to the Islanders and we're not looking to escape our contract. We are encouraging them to have a better team.''

But it didn't happen, and I doubt Wang was sleeping at the wheel on this contract. Where's the league revenue sharing check increase in salary? We hired an injury plagued project and Frans' wimpier cousin. Some improvement.
 

A Pointed Stick

No Idea About The Future
Dec 23, 2010
16,105
333
O
Why let facts get in the way of rational thinking. Oh yeah, that's right, I forgot. Those who hate the move are looking to conjure up any theory to discredit the move. Making stories and theories up as they go along. Just to fuel their agenda.

I love the move and hate Nassau, so try again Sparky so I don't know why anyone would hate on Barclays. :P
 
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A Pointed Stick

No Idea About The Future
Dec 23, 2010
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My post had absolutely nothing to do with you or your post. i directed it towards some other individuals. But hey you want to get stupid with your snide remarks then go ahead.

My apologies P4C. Since I had just responded to Crew I assumed you pointed it right at me. May your beer glass overflow this weekend.
 

CREW99AW

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Mar 12, 2002
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LOL. I don't trust Wang bud. If he was sincere about improving the on ice product for Barclays he'd have started this summer. He didn't. IMO, he is going to remain the cheapest owner in the league for as long as he can.


But it didn't happen, and I doubt Wang was sleeping at the wheel on this contract. Where's the league revenue sharing check increase in salary? We hired an injury plagued project and Frans' wimpier cousin. Some improvement.

I don't think Wang was sleeping at the wheel. He seems pretty happy with his new lease.

I don't think Ratner/Yormark were sleeping at the wheel either.

I think Wang has the security of a big,yearly payment from Barclays to go along with the big,yearly payment from Dolan. In exchange, I think he probably agreed to keep his payroll at a certain level after moving to Brooklyn.

Would I be surprised if Wang keeps payroll near the cap floor, until he moves? Not really.
 

A Pointed Stick

No Idea About The Future
Dec 23, 2010
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I don't think Wang was sleeping at the wheel. He seems pretty happy with his new lease.

I don't think Ratner/Yormark were sleeping at the wheel either.

I think Wang has the security of a big,yearly payment from Barclays to go along with the big,yearly payment from Dolan. In exchange, I think he probably agreed to keep his payroll at a certain level after moving to Brooklyn.

Would I be surprised if Wang keeps payroll near the cap floor, until he moves? Not really.

Given my 4 options above, which do you think he will choose?
 

Steve55

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Aug 21, 2005
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Burnaby, BC, Canada
http://islanderspointblank.com/aren...-to-barclays-setup-why-coliseum-wouldnt-work/

Apparently it’s Barclays Center Week here at IPB. More info on the arena front from Barclays Center CEO Brett Yormark, who was on the Michael Kay Show earlier today discussing the Nets, Islanders and Coliseum renovations....

“For the most part, what the fans saw on the 21st is what they’ll see when the Islanders come here,†Yormark told Kay. “We are thinking about adding some premium seating, which I think will be great for that high-end premium buyer but other than that we’re ready to go....â€

Asked why, with his team renovating the Coliseum, it wasn’t possible for the Islanders to stay Yormark had the following to say:

I just don’t think you could have refurbished it in a way where it could truly accommodate a professional hockey team for 44 nights. There’s very little suite revenue coming out of that building. They don’t really have suites. I just think there’s a slew of reasons why it wouldn’t work. I just don’t think you could generate the revenue out of that building...
 

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