Bad faith ... Wow

[CGG]

Did you even read the proposal?

They aren't banning hold-outs.

They are making it so that if you hold out, you miss an entire year. Both Kovalev and Peca did that under the old CBA.

Please point to the full year that Kovalev sat out.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=2803

But that's beside the point. Almost everyone is missing the big picture here. If the NHL really wants its salary cap, why bother with all this other hardline stance crap? Let the players hold out. Keep arbitration the same. If all of this jacks up salaries past the magical 55%, the league gets all their money back anyways.

The NHL is just being spiteful, vindictive, petty and childish asking for everything else ON TOP OF a salary cap.

 

[HockeyCritter]

OK fine then. I think if arbitration is a two-way street, then there also has to be a more balanced mechanism for walking away from arbitration rewards. For instance, when a team walks, the player becomes a UFA but the team can match any offer below 80% of the arbitration award. How about if a player doesn't like the offer, he can walk and become a UFA, but then the team can match any offer below 120% of the arbitration award? So if there isn't a team out there that thinks the player is worth significantly more than his arbitration award, his team has a chance to retain him. Either that, or make a free agency level between restricted and unrestricted, where the compensation for signing players is a lot less.

Those terms seem fair.

Why is it that a bunch of hockey fans can come up with creative equitable solutions but the ding-a-lings running the show can’t even agree on where to buy lunch?

 

[Ar-too]

The NHL is just being spiteful, vindictive, petty and childish asking for everything else ON TOP OF a salary cap.

That's true. If you think it's bad now, wait until after the season is canceled. The players will be begging for a hard cap and a 24 % rollback...

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Just playing Devils advocate. What of the league put thigns like the lack of holding out and the UFA age of 30 as items to negotiate?

That's fine.
But when the major issue is cost certainty, it seems silly to add things like this right now

 

[CGG]

Stop drinking so much koolaid

Can we please put a ban on any further use of phrases involving Kool-Aid? Come on, it was mildly funny some seven years ago when a New Jersey guy said it about Lou, but it is horribly overused and ineffective nowadays.

 

[kerrly]

THERE IS A SIMPLE REASON FOR THAT AND IT IS AS FOLLOWS:

Management ie the owners want tp break the union and replace it with a pro owner union .

Glen Healy, is that you?

 

[HockeyCritter]

THERE IS A SIMPLE REASON FOR THAT AND IT IS AS FOLLOWS:

Management ie the owners want tp break the union and replace it with a pro owner union .

That’s a rather slanted, overly simplistic view

Neither side had negotiated in good faith, neither side has been truthful, neither side is forthcoming with all the facts, neither side is willing to concede, neither side has made an honest effort, neither side is blameless, neither side has presented a solid, realistic framework for a new deal, and because of that the fans suffer.

 

[Rejean31]

i am still waiting for an example though of this is in reality. what players have sat out past training camp and deserved a lower contract ? presumably, if the player and team have agreed to a contract, both sides were satisfied with teh amount. so are there really any examples of players deserving less and getting more ? and if so, isnt that the fault of the stupid manager ?

dr

How about Mike Comrie???

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

How about Mike Comrie???

what about him ? he didnt want to play for EDM, isnt that his right ?

and he signed a contract for under 2m and multi years in PHX. seems to me the mechanism to lower contracts worked.

dr

 

[Sammy*]

what about him ? he didnt want to play for EDM, isnt that his right ?

and he signed a contract for under 2m and multi years in PHX. seems to me the mechanism to lower contracts worked.

dr

So the upshot is you didnt think such a guy like Mike Comrie existed & you were proven wrong again.
Next time you should do your own research.

 

[djhn579]

its not a hold out if he doesnt have a contract.
dr

Main Entry: hold out
Function: verb
intransitive senses
1 : to remain unsubdued or operative : continue to cope or function
2 : to refuse to go along with others in a concerted action or to come to an agreement <holding out for a shorter workweek>
transitive senses1 : to present as something realizable : PROFFER
2 : to represent to be
- hold out on : to withhold something (as information) from

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary


Phrasal Verb: hold out
To stand firm, especially resisting difficulties
Example: held out against the enemy.
To endure or last.
Phrasal Verb: hold out for something
To wait persistently for something one wants or has demanded.
Phrasal Verb: hold out on someone
To keep back money, information, etc from them.

http://www.allwords.com/query.php?SearchType=3&Keyword=hold out


hold·out [ hṓld òwt ] (plural hold·outs)


noun

1. refusal to agree: a refusal to agree or compromise in order to obtain better terms in any kind of settlement
The holdout lasted three weeks.


2. somebody who holds out: an individual or group that refuses to submit to or comply with a situation, trend, or order
a small group of holdouts who refuse to leave the building


http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/Holdout.html




I don't see anything saying that a hold out only involves people under contract...

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

So the upshot is you didnt think such a guy like Mike Comrie existed & you were proven wrong again.
Next time you should do your own research.

huh ?

how is Mike Comrie an example of a player who should have taken a pay cut but held out ?

DR

 

[me2]

1st off its not a hold out if he has completed his contract.

why shouldnt he be allowed to sit out until he has a contract offer that he agree's to ? is it not his human right to choose to not play hockey for less than 1billion dollars per shift ?

And he's free to do that under the NHLs proposal. If he doesn't like the offer he can reject it and wait until the next season.

 

[mackdogs*]

huh ?

how is Mike Comrie an example of a player who should have taken a pay cut but held out ?

DR

Not really sure how to answer that question other than to say he is an example.

He had a gun to Oilers owners heads in his initial contract due to the Van Ryn loophole, milked them for copious amounts of $$ (tons of bonuses) and refused a completely reasonable contract for what the Oil thought he was worth.

Mike Comrie is an example. If you want to know how, like Sammy said do some research.