Backstrom + Kuznetsov vs. Tavares + Matthews

[Nizdizzle]

I’ll take the Cup winners over the guy who’s game gets worse in the playoffs.

Very ironic, seeing as this asinine playoff criticism was used against AO every year until this one.

 

[um]

Very ironic, seeing as this asinine playoff criticism was used against AO every year until this one.

It's more ironic when the cristism was actually valid against Kuznetsov and Backstrom.

But playoff play is relevant, can't ignore it.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Very ironic, seeing as this asinine playoff criticism was used against AO every year until this one.

Yeah, get 10 cracks at the can and great players will eventually win. It’s easy for a player in his prime with 10 or 12 cracks at the can to have a better playoff performance than a rookie/sophomore with 2 cracks at the can.

By year 10, Matthews will have a much better playoff record than any of the Capitals.

 

[authentic]

Backstrom is so criminally underrated. In no way is Matthews better than Backstrom

Yeah, he's a better goal scorer and even strength player, and I would go as far as to say both of those are not close enough that they're even debatable. If you conclude from that he's not the better player then there's not much else we can do to help you.

 

[authentic]

Matthews is good at defense, but his defensive game is getting overrated. He is not better defensively than Backstrom.

It doesn't matter if he was ppg this year. Backstrom is a shade under ppg in over 800games, ie - his career. Matthews has more potential, 100%. That being said, as of right now, he is not better.

Some of these posters saying Matthews and Tavares >> Kuznetsov and Backstrom are fools. That's just blind homerism.....

Not really. Imagine Tavares and Matthews played on the same team with Ovechkin, and Kuznetsov and Backstrom took their places on the Leafs and Islanders the past few seasons, this poll would very possibly not be close. They are elite playmakers with the best goal scorer to set up. What elite playmakers were setting up Matthews and Tavares? Also Matthews is better defensively than Backstrom and Tavares is better defensively than Kuznetsov. And you're here trying to tell me with a straight face that taking Matthews and Tavares over them is just blind homerism...

 

[Revelation]

Not really. Imagine Tavares and Matthews played on the same team with Ovechkin, and Kuznetsov and Backstrom took their places on the Leafs and Islanders the past few seasons, this poll would very possibly not be close.

On the team with Kadri, Marner, Nylander, Marleau and JVR? Yeah I have no idea how they'd manage lol

 

[Revelation]

Yeah, get 10 cracks at the can and great players will eventually win. It’s easy for a player in his prime with 10 or 12 cracks at the can to have a better playoff performance than a rookie/sophomore with 2 cracks at the can.

By year 10, Matthews will have a much better playoff record than any of the Capitals.

By year 10 Matthews will be out of the league

 

[authentic]

On the team with Kadri, Marner, Nylander, Marleau and JVR? Yeah I have no idea how they'd manage lol

They will manage, my point was with Ovechkin it wouldn't be close, lol. Heck they already have managed to be the better players anyway.

 

[Revelation]

They will manage, my point was with Ovechkin it wouldn't be close, lol. Heck they already have managed to be the better players anyway.

Doubt it, they'd have more high end supporting wingers to work with instead of just one.

 

[authentic]

Doubt it, they'd have more high end supporting wingers to work with instead of just one.

Lol, they would not score the same without Ovechkin I think that's pretty clear.

 

[Revelation]

Lol, they would not score the same without Ovechkin I think that's pretty clear.

They'd score more with JVR/Marner/Nylander/Kadri than with Oshie/Wilson/Vrana/Eller

 

[WetcoastOrca]

It’s a coin flip. And the results show that.

 

[authentic]

They'd score more with JVR/Marner/Nylander/Kadri than with Oshie/Wilson/Vrana/Eller

Matthews didn't play with Marner or JVR or Kadri. Kuznetsov and Backstrom played with Ovechkin a ton who are you kidding?

 

[North Cole]

Not really. Imagine Tavares and Matthews played on the same team with Ovechkin, and Kuznetsov and Backstrom took their places on the Leafs and Islanders the past few seasons, this poll would very possibly not be close. They are elite playmakers with the best goal scorer to set up. What elite playmakers were setting up Matthews and Tavares? Also Matthews is better defensively than Backstrom and Tavares is better defensively than Kuznetsov. And you're here trying to tell me with a straight face that taking Matthews and Tavares over them is just blind homerism...

I don't give a shit if people take the leafs duo. I never said that. When people start adding ">>>", then its blind homerism. Idk what planet those people live on, but on Earth, Matthews is not >>/>>> then a guy who has ~800 pts in ~820 games, whom also happens to be better at defense. Tavares played in a system for weight where they just focused on scoring goals, it's not as though Lee is some bum. Can't think of too many elite playmaker's that play wing, so I'm not sure by what you mean about players setting up matthews and tavares?

That was also an aside on my reply which is why I put it as a separate paragraph. I didn't accuse you of saying it wasn't close, I said some people.

 

[authentic]

I don't give a **** if people take the leafs duo. I never said that. When people start adding ">>>", then its blind homerism. Idk what planet those people live on, but on Earth, Matthews is not >>/>>> then a guy who has ~800 pts in ~820 games, whom also happens to be better at defense. Tavares played in a system for weight where they just focused on scoring goals, it's not as though Lee is some bum. Can't think of too many elite playmaker's that play wing, so I'm not sure by what you mean about players setting up matthews and tavares?

That was also an aside on my reply which is why I put it as a separate paragraph. I didn't accuse you of saying it wasn't close, I said some people.

Tavares mailed it in halfway through the season according to Islanders fans, and will now be playing with Marner who will be an elite playmaking winger, but I also don't think they're easily better though anyway so sorry to rustle your feathers.

 

[North Cole]

Tavares mailed it in halfway through the season according to Islanders fans, and will now be playing with Marner who will be an elite playmaking winger, but I also don't think they're easily better though anyway so sorry to rustle your feathers.

No, it's totally okay dude. I think I worded my initial response poorly and should have mentioned that the back half was not aimed at you. It's my bad, not yours. I don't blame Tavares if true, that teams management was a dumpster fire, which I'm well attuned to spotting as an Oilers fan.... :sigh:

I wouldn't put too much stock in the guy saying Matthews will be out of the League in 10 years. That's nonsense. There is biased fans on both sides of every fence, just need to sift through them. True about the winger thing, Marner and Gaudreau were the ones I was leaning towards.

 

[Peggy]

Matthews>Backstrom>Tavares>Kuznetsov

wtf
Matthew's is better than tavares?
just because you believe they "will" be better does not mean they are better

you Matthew's gotta lay off the crack

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

wtf
Matthew's is better than tavares?
just because you believe they "will" be better does not mean they are better

you Matthew's gotta lay off the crack

Matthews currently is better than Tavares, and will be going forward

 

[Peggy]

Matthews currently is better than Tavares, and will be going forward

in what way? let me guess es points, but never total points because total points dont count right?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

in what way? let me guess es points, but never total points because total points dont count right?

I mean, Matthews scored at pretty much an identical overall pace to Tavares the last two years. but yes, Tavares getting way more powerplay time is a pretty big advantage for raw production and Matthews is a better goal scorer and much better 5v5 player. Matthews also has a stronger defensive impact

 

[Peggy]

I mean, Matthews scored at pretty much an identical overall pace to Tavares the last two years. but yes, Tavares getting way more powerplay time is a pretty big advantage for raw production and Matthews is a better goal scorer and much better 5v5 player. Matthews also has a stronger defensive impact

doesnt matter about stats that ignore all things
at the end of the day tavares puts more numbers on the scoreboard and until Matthew's accomplishes that he isn't better

reality > hypotheticals
every time

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

doesnt matter about stats that ignore all things
at the end of the day tavares puts more numbers on the scoreboard and until Matthew's accomplishes that he isn't better

reality > hypotheticals
every time

context is a pretty big part of reality. you can't always take things at face value

 

[Peggy]

context is a pretty big part of reality. you can't always take things at face value

"context"
here's the context
tavares ended up with 84 points. Matthew's has yet to break 70

talk to me when matthews breaks 70
until then tavares has been better in the last 2 seasons

Matthew's fans suck on hypotheticals too much and not enough real life results

ifs and buts is your argument

 

[Castle8130]

Kuzy pretty much dominated every team he faced in the playoffs and carried his other lines when they weren't pulling through. I would say he was the best player in all of the 2018 playoffs (most important part of the year). Better than Matthews for sure and I would say his play throughout the whole year bests tavares as well. Backstrom on the other hand had a not so great playoff performance. He really didn't show up until the last two series imo. He had a good amount of points, but he didn't seem very dominant. You can judge him by his point totals if you want, but I'd say Kuznetsov was the real mvp. I'd rate them rn:

Not saying Backstrom isn't an elite nhl center, just saying I thought he took a step back when Kuzy and Ovi stepped up this season.

Kuznetsov > Tavares > Matthews > Backstrom

 

[Midnight Judges]

He had a good amount of points, but he didn't seem very dominant.

Backstrom is ultra stealth like that. I've come to really respect it.

He skates slow, stick handles slow, and then quick as a snake he dishes the puck without even looking. His flash is so flashy you don't even see it.

He is a sneaky player.