Backdoor Memorial Cup win vs OHL title
- Thread starter Snippit
- Start date
Great idea for a poll, gotta go with a win after four rounds as opposed to winning the tournament personally.
Well, about half the teams in the OHL have no shot of hosting to begin with and it depends. Eliminated in Round 1 and win the MC? No. I'll take an OHL title. Eliminated in Game 7 OT of the OHL Finals but beat the team that knocked you out in the MC Final, I'd be completely happy with. The farther away from those two extremes you go the less/more happy I'd be. I'd have to at least see my team in the OHL Final to pick the host/MC winner option I'd think.
Win an OHL title. I don't think that the Memorial Cup is a fair measure of how good a team my be.
bobber
Registered User
Winning an OHL Championship is a great accomplishment in anyone's eyes. It is something the winning team will always cherish. The thing is most teams are remembered by the number of Memorial Cup wins in their history. It's kind of the CHL version of the Stanley Cup but it's set up differently because the league wants that revenue and profit sharing. The way the CHL is set up now there has to be a host team. They are really few and far between because of the size of the venue and the cost of operating the tournament. It's odd when you consider some fans of the game feel the host team "choked" if they go all the way through the play offs to the tourney and fail to win. If the host team gets beat out in the first round of the play offs and loses in the Mem Cup fans just figure they were lucky to be playing. If they win fans think they don't deserve the accolades that come with winning. It is what it is and unless the powers that be change the tourney to what it use to be there is always a chance a well rested host will win. Not sure there is any way to change it these days.
Ward Cornell
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- Dec 22, 2007
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Hmmm....would I like to find a million dollars on the sidewalk or earn the million dollars?
Finding it is cool but you just have a million dollars with zero respect that you earned it.
While respect comes earning the money.
Kind of like the rich kid in high school driving dads Mercedes, while another kid is driving an "old beater" he bought himself flipping burgers.
I know which one I probably would hangout with! (unless that rich kid is a hot blonde female!
)
OHL Championship all the way....the other is just a roll of the dice!
I still say the way to go in this is having a host city with a possible different host team. The host team doesn't need to be from the host city. For instance, host city Hamilton, host team Guelph. There are enough large size OHL arenas with a smaller OHL team close by.
Finding it is cool but you just have a million dollars with zero respect that you earned it.
While respect comes earning the money.
Kind of like the rich kid in high school driving dads Mercedes, while another kid is driving an "old beater" he bought himself flipping burgers.
I know which one I probably would hangout with! (unless that rich kid is a hot blonde female!
)OHL Championship all the way....the other is just a roll of the dice!
I still say the way to go in this is having a host city with a possible different host team. The host team doesn't need to be from the host city. For instance, host city Hamilton, host team Guelph. There are enough large size OHL arenas with a smaller OHL team close by.
youngblood10
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- Jan 26, 2010
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Having witnessed the local franchise in Windsor do both scenarios, as a fan it was crushing in '88 when they dominated the playoffs with an undefeated run, actually didn't lose a game from Xmas until the Memorial Cup final. It was empty & incomplete, difficult pill to swallow. That team was one of the best in junior hockey of all time but that was all lost to the pages of history after one game.
Last season with no expectations after a controversial game 7 loss. Then running the table at the tournament on home ice was amazing & unexpected to see. Winning any championship is special. But I think for the kids who win that last game it makes the playoff disappointment go away real fast. It doesn't work the other way around unfortunately.
Last season with no expectations after a controversial game 7 loss. Then running the table at the tournament on home ice was amazing & unexpected to see. Winning any championship is special. But I think for the kids who win that last game it makes the playoff disappointment go away real fast. It doesn't work the other way around unfortunately.
Hammer9001
Registered User
I would say for the most part, the OHL title would win out in most circumstances for me. The Memorial is a championship of champions +1, there is little shame in losing some games to the best teams in the country or vs a well rested, less traveled host.
The only time I would say I would say otherwise, is when the Memorial is more of a case of redemption for the host. Like, for example having to eat an early playoff exit due to an injured starting goaltender or team star, or a bad reffing call ruining a game 7 and costing a series. Basically, that it was pretty clear you were a legitimate OHL Championship contender and something beyond your control hamstrung you before being able to make it.
sbpointer
Registered User
Personally I see more value in the OHL championship because it is a reflection of your teams effort over the entire season against it's regular competition. That said winning the Memorial Cup even as host is a unique accomplishment that should be celebrated. I guess my honest opinion is I'd be proud of both teams but for different reasons. The Robertson Cup is most reflective of the results of the season as a whole where the Memorial Cup is awarded to the team who had the best week that week.
Purple Phart
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- Apr 4, 2016
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What hasn't been mentioned is the mindset that a guaranteed berth fosters. Yes, the tournament is one of Champions + Host Team, but that host team has to at least make an effort to be somewhat on equal terms with the Champs. Tanking it at the earliest possible opportunity just doesn't seem to fulfil that obligation, but when one looks at that "big picture".....that one that provides that viewpoint that hey, we absolutely CAN do this, because it's within the rules ! A backdoor entry can be justified as being respectable. I'm older, and make no appology for my expecation of coming by achievements "honourably". I can remember not so long ago, that a bankruptcy or a divorce had a certain stigma attached to them. Not so much these days, so a less -than-honourable achievement has been elevated in stature, in some people's eyes. Apparently a trophy with a slight bit of tarnish on it, is quite acceptable, and so is the cash generated by this tournament.
OHLTG
Registered User
If one of the options was winning the OHL title AND the Memorial Cup, I'd be okay with that. However, winning the OHL and then losing in the Memorial Cup would be heartwrenching. A bunch of us saw Windsor nearly lose in Rimouski in 2009 and I KNOW people would have been upset by it.
Of course winning the Memorial Cup after losing in the playoffs is a weird way to go, but if I had a choice out of these two, I'd still take it.
Of course winning the Memorial Cup after losing in the playoffs is a weird way to go, but if I had a choice out of these two, I'd still take it.
battfan888
Podcaster
Winning the OHL title is the way to go but it doesn't make that Memorial Cup loss suck any less.
Being a Storm fan that 2014 team was amazing and I think everybody can agree they would have been a very worthy champion had they beat Edmonton but on the day they fell flat. Regardless of how great the rest of that season was there is still a hole there and it bothers me still 4 years down the line.
That said the organization still hasn't won a Memorial Cup and I would rather at the very least that first one comes by running the gauntlet. I don't think it matters as much to a team like Windsor for example who has done it a couple times through the front door so winning the way they did last year probably wasn't a big deal to the fans of the Spits.
I think of a team like Shawinigan, they have won a Memorial Cup but never a QMJHL title, that just sounds awkward to me.
Hopefully one of these days the Storm get it done.
Being a Storm fan that 2014 team was amazing and I think everybody can agree they would have been a very worthy champion had they beat Edmonton but on the day they fell flat. Regardless of how great the rest of that season was there is still a hole there and it bothers me still 4 years down the line.
That said the organization still hasn't won a Memorial Cup and I would rather at the very least that first one comes by running the gauntlet. I don't think it matters as much to a team like Windsor for example who has done it a couple times through the front door so winning the way they did last year probably wasn't a big deal to the fans of the Spits.
I think of a team like Shawinigan, they have won a Memorial Cup but never a QMJHL title, that just sounds awkward to me.
Hopefully one of these days the Storm get it done.
Ever since the tourney format changed from a tournament of champions to a tournament of champions plus one both a league title and a Memorial Cup title need to be looked at as completely separate entities/accomplishments.
As a Windsor fan I was extremely disappointed to see Windsor enter the tournament strictly as hosts, we all want to see our teams win their way in so that diminishes the achievement of making it into the tournament simply because you're the host.
If the host does win their way in though there will still be a fourth team who did not win their way in. They may have lost in their league final but are they legitimately anymore qualified or deserving of being there based on the premise that they didn't win their way in regardless of how far they went in the playoffs?
Now the tourney itself, regardless of how a team gets there, as long as its within the rules becomes a separate entity. I would no longer consider it a true national championship since the various format changes. Going beyond that thought winning the tournament itself is not tarnished as the games themselves must be played and won.
A free opportunity for the host or runner up is one thing but what is done with the opportunity is something else.
When a favourite to win the league title loses do we diminish the eventual winner because the favourite was prematurely beaten? No. The final victor, in any scenario is who wins the final game based on the rules provided.
I have been one of Windsor's harsher critics about their playoff performance.
I also give full credit for what they did in the tourney looking at things as two separate entities.
They earned the win in the tourney. Being in the tourney under the rules provided.
Had the OHL final last year been a Windsor/Missy final with Windsor winning and hosting giving Missy a free berth would a Missy Memorial Cup win have been tarnished?
As a Windsor fan I was extremely disappointed to see Windsor enter the tournament strictly as hosts, we all want to see our teams win their way in so that diminishes the achievement of making it into the tournament simply because you're the host.
If the host does win their way in though there will still be a fourth team who did not win their way in. They may have lost in their league final but are they legitimately anymore qualified or deserving of being there based on the premise that they didn't win their way in regardless of how far they went in the playoffs?
Now the tourney itself, regardless of how a team gets there, as long as its within the rules becomes a separate entity. I would no longer consider it a true national championship since the various format changes. Going beyond that thought winning the tournament itself is not tarnished as the games themselves must be played and won.
A free opportunity for the host or runner up is one thing but what is done with the opportunity is something else.
When a favourite to win the league title loses do we diminish the eventual winner because the favourite was prematurely beaten? No. The final victor, in any scenario is who wins the final game based on the rules provided.
I have been one of Windsor's harsher critics about their playoff performance.
I also give full credit for what they did in the tourney looking at things as two separate entities.
They earned the win in the tourney. Being in the tourney under the rules provided.
Had the OHL final last year been a Windsor/Missy final with Windsor winning and hosting giving Missy a free berth would a Missy Memorial Cup win have been tarnished?
Missy fan here, I never consider a host MC tarnished, but I consider a Robertson and a MC a two different deals no matter who wins. A tourny is a different kettle of fish from league playoffs even back when only the champs got a berth. My opinion only.
The format is what it is.
The format is what it is.
Good topic!
Personally out of the 2 options the OHL Championship is the one I want first. Not knocking any Mem Cup win but the grind of a full playoff run winning the OHL Championship is harder. You are going 4 rounds of a best of 7 and battling it out. For the Mem Cup, it could be won in as little as 4 games.
For the record, I would be curious to see people's responses with more options to choose from.
Personally out of the 2 options the OHL Championship is the one I want first. Not knocking any Mem Cup win but the grind of a full playoff run winning the OHL Championship is harder. You are going 4 rounds of a best of 7 and battling it out. For the Mem Cup, it could be won in as little as 4 games.
For the record, I would be curious to see people's responses with more options to choose from.
fishfan51
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Spirit of 67
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Spirit of 67
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tony d
Registered User
Option A for me. Not to derail the thread or anything but this host team getting a spot in the Memorial Cup has got to go. Maybe have a 2nd 4 team round robin before the actual Memorial Cup. This would include the host city, and the 3 league runner ups. The winner of that tourney would be put in the Memorial Cup.
staubitz
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- Apr 30, 2015
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For me, I would for sure prefer the first option - OHL title
A) Win an OHL title and fall short in the Memorial Cup
That being said, I'm a Greyhounds fan who is very proud of the Hounds' Memorial Cup victory in 1993 when they were not the OHL champions. However, that year the Soo did progress to the OHL finals against Petorborough, so it's not like they bowed out of the playoffs early. More significantly, however, SSM beat Peterborough in the Super Series and therefore EARNED the opportunity to host the tournament and to be entered in the tournament. Under the current system, I would opt for the OHL title (not that SSM will be able to host ever again...)
I agree - if the league insists on only awarding hosting duties to large centers that will generate the most revenue, I think the idea of host teams getting to participate in the tournament is extremely unfair.
A) Win an OHL title and fall short in the Memorial Cup
That being said, I'm a Greyhounds fan who is very proud of the Hounds' Memorial Cup victory in 1993 when they were not the OHL champions. However, that year the Soo did progress to the OHL finals against Petorborough, so it's not like they bowed out of the playoffs early. More significantly, however, SSM beat Peterborough in the Super Series and therefore EARNED the opportunity to host the tournament and to be entered in the tournament. Under the current system, I would opt for the OHL title (not that SSM will be able to host ever again...)
I agree - if the league insists on only awarding hosting duties to large centers that will generate the most revenue, I think the idea of host teams getting to participate in the tournament is extremely unfair.
PensFan101
Forever Champions.
It's definitely the OHL for me. The Attack winning in 2011 was something I never thought was possible, and winning the OHL was all that mattered. Once the Memorial Cup started it felt like the bonus round, and I didn't care if the boys went all the way. There's so much luck involved in winning the Memorial Cup after such a long season (and Attack fans will remember we lost our two best players in the Round Robin, one a near career-ending injury).
I also don't care whether my team beats Quebec or Acadie-Bathurst, Kelowna or Kootenay. I DO care a great deal about whether we beat London, Kitchener, the Soo, or Mississauga. I know the OHL teams, their histories, and their players year to year. They come into our barn at least once a year. The Q and Dub teams hold no such allure.
The Memorial Cup might be promoted as a true national championship but in my eyes success and failure will only be measured by OHL titles. The Mem Cup is just the cherry on top of a delicious sundae.
I also don't care whether my team beats Quebec or Acadie-Bathurst, Kelowna or Kootenay. I DO care a great deal about whether we beat London, Kitchener, the Soo, or Mississauga. I know the OHL teams, their histories, and their players year to year. They come into our barn at least once a year. The Q and Dub teams hold no such allure.
The Memorial Cup might be promoted as a true national championship but in my eyes success and failure will only be measured by OHL titles. The Mem Cup is just the cherry on top of a delicious sundae.
Otto
Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
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