Ansar Khan: Babcock to Weiss: Do it Right or You'll Hate the Coach

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SoupNazi

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Feb 6, 2010
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That's not how the world works.
I'd say guys like Crawford, Quick and Rask have a much better chance than Howard -- if for no other reason than the team they play for. But also, because two of the goalies have done it before. And one just came fairly close

My point remains and is quite valid, Bob. ANY team can win the Cup. Howard has as good a chance as anyone.
 

ricky0034

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Jun 8, 2010
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That's not how the world works.
I'd say guys like Crawford, Quick and Rask have a much better chance than Howard -- if for no other reason than the team they play for. But also, because two of the goalies have done it before. And one just came fairly close

a different starting Goalie has won the cup every single year for the past 12 seasons now

you have this sentiment that just because they've done it before it's somehow measurably more likely that they will do it again and that's cool and all but there's no actual data that supports that in recent years
 

Heaton

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Feb 13, 2004
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a different starting Goalie has won the cup every single year for the past 12 seasons now

you have this sentiment that just because they've done it before it's somehow measurably more likely that they will do it again and that's cool and all but there's no actual data that supports that in recent years

Not to mention there's less than 4(3?) teams who have won back-to-back playoff rounds the last few years. Let alone multiple cups.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

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to be fair, I appreciate your posts alot but I havent(at least much of late) seen you talk about the players and decisions that you do in fact like or are excited to see play, its mostly just negatives.
 

RedWingsNow*

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a different starting Goalie has won the cup every single year for the past 12 seasons now

you have this sentiment that just because they've done it before it's somehow measurably more likely that they will do it again and that's cool and all but there's no actual data that supports that in recent years

While that's true -- it think most (maybe not in here) would that Chicago and Boston and LA are better suited to win the cup than Detroit.

Who are their goalies?
 

RedWingsNow*

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My point remains and is quite valid, Bob. ANY team can win the Cup. Howard has as good a chance as anyone.

No your point is not valid.
It has no validity whatsoever.

Howard has a better chance at winning the cup than Florida's goalie.
He has a worse chance at winning the cup than Rask.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

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While that's true -- it think most (maybe not in here) would that Chicago and Boston and LA are better suited to win the cup than Detroit.

Who are their goalies?

not sure i would put crawford in the same class as quick and rask anymore then i would put lucic in the same class as zetterberg

(each with one cup ring)
 

RedWingsNow*

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The Wings were 1 goal away from eliminating the eventual Stanley Cup champs.
If that's not a contender, I don't know what is???

The Wings were also 1 game from losing in round 1 and a few regular season wins from not making the playoffs.

If they aren't a contender for a lottery pick, I don't know what is!;)
 

Chance on Chance

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Jul 15, 2009
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This is Murica, comrad. Support the war or get out:help:

The Red Wings are my team, whether I happen to like the current bunch a whole lot or not much.

Over the last few years, I've seen a lot of players come in that I don't really like and seen players I like go.

There are some people who love every inch of "their team." I'm not of that mind.

All I see from you is negativity and look at Flips stats per 5 on 5 ice time, if we gave him a chance he's so much better then everyone else. We need a better goalie then howard but shouldnt make more then 4 million.

What would have had the wings do instead of singing howard? Trade for Bernier? Whos even less proven then Howard and hasnt won a cup so is no good.
 

ArGarBarGar

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Sep 8, 2008
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Thanks
I just read it the Crawford thread.
It's a refreshing board.

Opinions are all over the map.

They don't seem as willing to put players up on silly pedestals like they do here.

Reading the Crawford thread, it's not really at odds with what I believe, as I believe both Howard and Crawford are overpaid.

I guess I don't see the point in spending $5 to $6M on a goalie -- long term, when capable goalies are fairly easy to pick up on the cheap. Unless a goalie is out-of-this-world good...

And neither Howard or Crawford are "out of this world."

Such as who? The only player put on a pedestal here is Datsyuk. Maybe Zetterberg. Howard has enough critiques against him to keep him from looking like a god on these boards, he is just getting defended a lot because (despite you agreeing they are similar goaltenders) they are arguing with you about how important Crawford is to a cup win in comparison.
 

RedWingsNow*

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Such as who? The only player put on a pedestal here is Datsyuk. Maybe Zetterberg. Howard has enough critiques against him to keep him from looking like a god on these boards, he is just getting defended a lot because (despite you agreeing they are similar goaltenders) they are arguing with you about how important Crawford is to a cup win in comparison.

Disagree.
Howie -- is extremely overrated on this board. Next to Dekeyser, he's probably the most overrated Red Wing.
 

Boomhower

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Aside from the graet goaltending debate currently going on....

I just hope the last couple years in Florida haven't ruined Weiss. He was such a great two way talent and smart player. I don't think doing things the right way will be a problem for him! My confidence in this signing remains very high!
 

Heaton

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Aside from the graet goaltending debate currently going on....

I just hope the last couple years in Florida haven't ruined Weiss. He was such a great two way talent and smart player. I don't think doing things the right way will be a problem for him! My confidence in this signing remains very high!

I heard the same thing about Horton when he was leaving Florida, that he just didn't care anymore. Amazing what winning does for someone eh? I guess Horton decided he wanted to be miserable again with a wagon full of cash, though.
 

ArGarBarGar

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Disagree.
Howie -- is extremely overrated on this board. Next to Dekeyser, he's probably the most overrated Red Wing.

People have high hopes for Dekeyser for what he did as a guy coming into the league so late. I think people are excited for what they haven't seen yet (similarly to how you view Brunner strangely enough), but nobody is saying he will be the next Lidstrom or the top defenseman on our squad.

With Howard, I don't know much about what people are saying, but I haven't seen all that much. Right now this is the most I've seen people defend his play.

I think you are off base.
 

RedWingsNow*

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All I see from you is negativity and look at Flips stats per 5 on 5 ice time, if we gave him a chance he's so much better then everyone else. We need a better goalie then howard but shouldnt make more then 4 million.

What would have had the wings do instead of singing howard? Trade for Bernier? Whos even less proven then Howard and hasnt won a cup so is no good.

Dude if you to make it a personal criticism -- fine.
Just be right about it.
I don't sit here and question your credentials as a fan. It's the lowest form of arguing on a sports message board. It's the equivalent of the Hitler comparison argument.
So if you're going to do it, be right.

I never said we need a better goalie than Howard. I said Crawford has done something that Howard hasn't, and should be credited for it.

I continually say Howard is a good goalie. I continually say he could be a cup winner.
But I have questions about his maturity and mindset -- and I'll continue to have those questions until I don't.

The points about Filppula are not about how great Filppula is. But all of the sudden, now that he's gone -- all the fans who said he was great now he was inadequate.

Don't lecture me because I don't change my opinion of players the second Kenny Holland makes a transaction.

Pavel Datsyuk is my favorite player. Favorite since Yzerman/Fedorov.
But people freak out when I point out that the best centers in NHL history have not been high producers at 37-38 years old, and that Pavel won't be worth it at 38.

So here's where I am....
In April when the season over and Weiss doesn't have 22 goals and 60 points -- I'm not going to be surprised.

In 2016, when Datsyuk, when Datsyuk scores 40 points for $7,5M, I'm not going to be surprised.

These are conclusions that anyone could reach if they looked at the facts.

It's like when I got sick of the roster Holland put together in 2007. I hated Lang, Schneider and Williams. They had to go. Fans here said they were great. Some people here actually argued Schneider was better than Lidstrom.

We get rid of them and we win the next year.

Clear-eyed opinions don't always go over well at the local circlejerk. It's like Democrats who are anti-war until Obama orders airstrikes. Or Republicans who don't trust government regulation of environmental polluters but have no problem supporting the death penalty.

But I don't care. I can have good conversation with other people who, like me, try to have a clear-eyed opinion.
I just have to put up with the silly credential checks from people like you from time to time.
 

Boomhower

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I heard the same thing about Horton when he was leaving Florida, that he just didn't care anymore. Amazing what winning does for someone eh? I guess Horton decided he wanted to be miserable again with a wagon full of cash, though.

Yes, a Wagon full of cash trumps a lot of things.
They are no Boston, but I do see some promise with CBJ this year.
 

InjuredChoker

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Dec 25, 2011
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No. Of course they do.
And if I was a Habs fan, I'd be arguing with the Habs fans who overrate Price.:laugh:

Little ot but the Price threads on Habs boards make a good read.

Ofc with big fanbase you get wildly varying opinions - some say he is top 4 goalie at least and some say he wouldn't make it as a starter in their beer league

but the most level headed and smartest part of the fanbase seem to think that he has bad year last year, is extremely talented, calm, technical (maybe the most technical goalie), might be little lazy on work ethic side, got big contract and needs to prove he is worth it and rather soon, may have only year or so to do so until the bottle starts boiling and is around top 10 in goalies, maybe just outside.

I think he is going to have big year.. thought so before Habs hired Waite.
 

SoupNazi

Serenity now. Insanity later.
Feb 6, 2010
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No your point is not valid.
It has no validity whatsoever.

Howard has a better chance at winning the cup than Florida's goalie.
He has a worse chance at winning the cup than Rask.

Um, not on paper he doesn't. As I said, each team to begin the season has a 1/30 chance of winning the Cup. You can't dispute that. Thirty teams in the league. Only one Stanley Cup.
 

RedWingsNow*

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Um, not on paper he doesn't. As I said, each team to begin the season has a 1/30 chance of winning the Cup. You can't dispute that. Thirty teams in the league. Only one Stanley Cup.

I'll dispute that all day everyday.
I can't even believe you'd make such a point
 
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