Boston Herald B’s Have Plenty on Non-Tuukka Problems

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BruinsFanSince94

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This board should have the Barzal Rule. You bring him up to support a dumb take you are immediately locked.

I'm all for this rule. Type to stop these repetitive eggheads from breaking the rules over and over and over. There is a thread to bitch and whine about this stuff. This isn't it. Neither is the prospect thread, the GDT, the trade thread, the Player X, Y, Z thread. Get the f*** out of here with this shit.
 

JOKER 192

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I take it the party is over? :laugh:

I hate to break this to you, but you can go to any draft in any sport and find teams that whiffed on prospects and passed on guys who later became stars.

Instead of crying like a baby over spilled milk, why not worry about the team the B’s actually have and how they can improve it?

So much wasted energy.

You don't actually have breaking news here. Yes you can go over any draft and then say should have taken this guy instead of that guy but in this here case they really pulled a few picks out of their asses. Barzal and Connor were the consensus picks. If you think your smarter than everyone else and go off the board the way they did you better be right. In this case clearly they were not. Not even close. Did you notice how quickly the Islanders traded to get the Barzal pick after seeing the Bruins were stupid enough to let him drop? Did you notice who went right after Barzal. This is not hindsight everyone knew it was a mistake that day. Your favorite poster WTP never stopped telling everyone what they already knew , what a mistake it was. If I was doing what your accusing me of I would be bitching about Chabot and Svechnikov or White but those were not the consensus picks so that would be hindsight.But in the case of Barzal and Connor it is not.

You call it crying I call it bitching, whatever. I didn't realize it was up to me to worry about and then improve the team. What are they paying Cam and Don for then.

Speaking of wasted energy do you realize you spend much more time and energy than I do defending dumb ass moves management makes.
 

RedeyeRocketeer

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Jan 11, 2012
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This board should have the Barzal Rule. You bring him up to support a dumb take you are immediately locked.

It doesn't even have to be Barzal honestly. In a generational draft he whiffed on way more than just Barzal.

What is beyond obvious is this:

Sweeney has an eye for defensemen. He's extraordinary at spotting defensive talent, or at the very least way above average. In turn he's abysmal at doing the same for forwards. To me it means he's probably better suited as a career assistant GM where he'd be relied upon to bring a voice in the room about D.

But his pro level scouting, asset management, and decisions at forward are so putrid that he more or less breaks even in the end. His savvy contracts for Marchy and Pasta were lit on fire by mistakes that 4/5's of the league knew when he made them. If you guys didn't read other team threads the day of the Backes signing, you should have. Everyone knew it was bad except most of this board. The league has obviously been moving towards fast skilled forwards, and most of our mistakes came from totally ignoring that.

Talking about that doesn't make you a bad fan nor does it mean you root against the team. But a lot of people in 2015-2016 hated the decisions they took, and now we're trying to fix those problems on the fly. Easier said then done.
 

Fenian24

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Jun 14, 2010
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When I was a teen I watched the Bruins impatiently dump future 50 and 60 goal scorers like Reggie Leach, Al Secord, and Rick McLeish for short term gain - core guys like Geoff Courtnall, Brad McCrimmon, Ivan Boldeliev, Jimmy Lorentz and another very good group as add ins and poor returns

Just like our children some develop sooner than others and I see promise and big upside in all these guys

Just curios don Godfather you are an in the moment screw the future guy I have deduced ? Any kids ?
Bruins won 72 cup by moving Leach, Vadnais was the best player on the Seals and they were not letting him go for less than a ton of prospects, I can't remember off the top of my head who else was involved in that deal but Vadnais. they needed to get Orr some help on D and did in that trade.

Courtnall was Harry being cheap. The Secord deal made me vomit, I hated Mike O'Connell from day one here and he was a disaster on the ice and as GM. In some ways it was worse than the Seguin trade.

Prospects are fine and you need them in a cap league, you also need prospects who will contribute, not seeing that from the dynamic duo of Donato and Hienen and JFK at best is a fourth line non physical center in a few years. By which time Bergeron and Chara will be gone and they may not have quality centers on the top two lines.

They are a tweener team, I know you think they win it next year, I don't think they do relying on Donato, Hienen and Bjork.

Core is aging quickly, Rask has always been shaky in pressure situations and I think Sweeney is in over his head. They need to decide if the are going to rebuild, if that is the case move Chara, Rask, Krejci and Bergeron, enter the Hughes sweepstakes and build your future core around McAvoy, Pastrnak, Carlo and DeBrusk or move some of the prospects to fill the glaring holes and make a run over the next couple years.
 
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Dicky113

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For two years, I have said that this fan base is overvaluing the bulk of our prospects. I keep reading that the future is bright etc, but objectively just don’t see any top 6 forward depth in this long list of “can’t misses”. It is not their fault, too much is being asked of them given their skill set. DeBrusk has a good chance, I don’t think any of the others (Heinen, Bjork, Donato, JFK, Studnika, etc etc etc) are going to pan out as anything more than role players at best.

I do think it’s fair to bring up the 2015 draft, because it was so obvious then that we could have rebuilt our core in about 30 minutes if we had a management team that didn’t have their heads up theirs asses. This isn’t hindsight, this played out in real-time. Until Neely and Sweeney apologists admit that this was a disaster and disgrace, they should be prepared to listen to those of us that called it then and are calling it now. I think that draft is grounds for this management group to be fired. I don’t have any faith after watching that fiasco that they will ever get it, and the sooner we deal with that the better.

To argue “yeah but that happened 3 years ago so we just need to forget about it and move on” is irritating. To hear “yeah but there are draft misses every year in hindsight” is infuriating.

That is my view, this is a message board and I have the right to express it (as do others), so I welcome your criticism but preemptively disagree with it.
 

Seidenbergy

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Nov 2, 2012
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Core is aging quickly, Rask has always been shaky in pressure situations

This myth has been debunked here 724 times.

Rask career regular season numbers: 2.27 gaa and .922 save %
Rask career playoff numbers: 2.25 gaa and .924 save %

Statistically throughout his regular season career, his worst month is October (least pressure month) and he shines in March and April (highest pressure months). If anything, the opposite of what you posted is true.
 

TheReal13Linseman

Now accepting BitCoin
Oct 26, 2005
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It’s October

They have a deep talented defense/goalie group and the best 200 foot line in hockey.

I admit I was brainwashed by my father to be patient and positive and not over react. He told me he did this on purpose because he said he knew it would serve me well.

I’m just going to watch this unfold like I did in 2011

I been on HF over 20 years and March 2011 was the most chaotic and entertaining melt down I ever saw- if Vancouver riots could translate to a message board it was that month on this board

The Bruins in March 2011 went 0-6-2 I believe over 8 games and the threads were

Thomas is not a number 1 goalie and never won a big game

Julien should be fired

Ryder & Boychuk were healthy scratches during that streak and Boychuk hockey IQ took a beating and Chiarelli eviscerated for signing Ryder.

I started a thread on the overreaction and 2 months later they were having a parade

I did pick Vancouver in 5 though in full disclosure

Bottom line is this team and organization is in a very good spot the problem Bruins fans want the Cup in October with 4 lines 3 defense and 2 goalies in place who will get names engraved

They will get 105 points and come out of East

Check back in May because now it’s My opinion against yours and as Dave Mason sung We Just Disagree

Dave Mason, We Just Disagree???!!!

Thanks a lot, DKH! Just when I've reached a point in my life where 1970's gushy love songs have almost permanently faded from the deepest regions of my mind...YOU BRING 'EM BACK!!!

Oh, the humanity...
 

ON3M4N

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If they had picked right in 2015 we wouldn't have the problems we have today (1 line offense ) is my point. We wouldn't need any of the the prospects we're trying to squeeze some talent out of. It matters little when the prospects were drafted . We see all kinds posters clamoring for this guy or that guy to get a chance, in the end, none are getting done.

Maybe not, but then that 2015 draft maybe puts us in a spot where we don't have the chance to draft McAvoy the following year, or Frederic...basically everyone drafted by the B's post 2015 could not be part of this organization right now by changing your 2015 draft picks. Now IDK about you, but it its a hell of a lot harder to find a 20yr old top pairing RHD than it is some scoring forwards.
 

DKH

The Bergeron of HF
Feb 27, 2002
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Dave Mason, We Just Disagree???!!!

Thanks a lot, DKH! Just when I've reached a point in my life where 1970's gushy love songs have almost permanently faded from the deepest regions of my mind...YOU BRING 'EM BACK!!!

Oh, the humanity...
I was Feelin’ Alright when I typed this

I wore out my Traffic 8 Track in dad’s 1975 Impala
 

GloryDaze4877

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Jun 27, 2006
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You don't actually have breaking news here. Yes you can go over any draft and then say should have taken this guy instead of that guy but in this here case they really pulled a few picks out of their asses. Barzal and Connor were the consensus picks. If you think your smarter than everyone else and go off the board the way they did you better be right. In this case clearly they were not. Not even close. Did you notice how quickly the Islanders traded to get the Barzal pick after seeing the Bruins were stupid enough to let him drop? Did you notice who went right after Barzal. This is not hindsight everyone knew it was a mistake that day. Your favorite poster WTP never stopped telling everyone what they already knew , what a mistake it was. If I was doing what your accusing me of I would be *****ing about Chabot and Svechnikov or White but those were not the consensus picks so that would be hindsight.But in the case of Barzal and Connor it is not.

You call it crying I call it *****ing, whatever. I didn't realize it was up to me to worry about and then improve the team. What are they paying Cam and Don for then.

Speaking of wasted energy do you realize you spend much more time and energy than I do defending dumb ass moves management makes.

I’m not defending management. They should have drafted Barzal and Connor in hindsight (I would have preferred Konecny to Connor, who I have not been a fan of since watching him at Michigan).

I’m just saying it’s pointless for yourself and others to constantly bit** about not drafting them at this point.

Whoa, wasted a lot of energy there.

I would waste even less if people stopped bringing it up 25 times a day. Move on, isn’t there someone in the 16/17/18 drafts you can complain that the B’s didn’t take?

DeBrincat over Fredric?
 
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Chief Nine

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This myth has been debunked here 724 times.

Rask career regular season numbers: 2.27 gaa and .922 save %
Rask career playoff numbers: 2.25 gaa and .924 save %

Statistically throughout his regular season career, his worst month is October (least pressure month) and he shines in March and April (highest pressure months). If anything, the opposite of what you posted is true.

Won't matter to him. He'll just ignore you and post it again and again
 
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ON3M4N

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This team has to address the bottom six. Especially the 3rd line scoring or lack thereof. We need to make a move for a scorer to put on the second line, move Heinen to the third line.

Honestly they have some solid wings, it's just finding that center. Nothing against Nords, hes done a solid job....at the end of the day though he's not the answer at #3C
 
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WhalerTurnedBruin55

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This myth has been debunked here 724 times.

Rask career regular season numbers: 2.27 gaa and .922 save %
Rask career playoff numbers: 2.25 gaa and .924 save %

Statistically throughout his regular season career, his worst month is October (least pressure month) and he shines in March and April (highest pressure months). If anything, the opposite of what you posted is true.
Statistically Tuukka Rask is amazing.

Still not sure he'll lead the team to the cup himself, it is a team game after all. But stopping 1 or 2 more in crucial games 5 years ago would have made him a legend here. Goalies that make those saves that they shouldn't at the right times are the ones that become heroes.

Until then, he's on par to have a Lundqvist-esque career, which isn't too shabby. But maybe we just want more.
 
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Seidenbergy

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Nov 2, 2012
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Statistically Tuukka Rask is amazing.

Still not sure he'll lead the team to the cup himself, it is a team game after all. But stopping 1 or 2 more in crucial games 5 years ago would have made him a legend here. Goalies that make those saves that they shouldn't at the right times are the ones that become heroes.

Until then, he's on par to have a Lundqvist-esque career, which isn't too shabby. But maybe we just want more.

That's fine......just a different argument than I was responding to.
 

RedeyeRocketeer

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For two years, I have said that this fan base is overvaluing the bulk of our prospects. I keep reading that the future is bright etc, but objectively just don’t see any top 6 forward depth in this long list of “can’t misses”. It is not their fault, too much is being asked of them given their skill set. DeBrusk has a good chance, I don’t think any of the others (Heinen, Bjork, Donato, JFK, Studnika, etc etc etc) are going to pan out as anything more than role players at best.

I do think it’s fair to bring up the 2015 draft, because it was so obvious then that we could have rebuilt our core in about 30 minutes if we had a management team that didn’t have their heads up theirs asses. This isn’t hindsight, this played out in real-time. Until Neely and Sweeney apologists admit that this was a disaster and disgrace, they should be prepared to listen to those of us that called it then and are calling it now. I think that draft is grounds for this management group to be fired. I don’t have any faith after watching that fiasco that they will ever get it, and the sooner we deal with that the better.

To argue “yeah but that happened 3 years ago so we just need to forget about it and move on” is irritating. To hear “yeah but there are draft misses every year in hindsight” is infuriating.

That is my view, this is a message board and I have the right to express it (as do others), so I welcome your criticism but preemptively disagree with it.


Good post. So let me put it this way:

-Will people keep calling Charlie a good draft pick long after the draft is done?
-Will people keep calling the Pasta contract great long after it's been signed?
-Will people keep calling the Cassidy switch great years later?

If the answer to that is yes, as it should be, then there's no artificial rule saying we can't talk about the past mistakes. Past mistakes have a direct correlation to future ones based on human error and skillsets. The blind spots that Sweeneely have are pretty glaring, and there's literally nothing wrong with understand how we got here, and how we'll get out.

I took 2 years of abuse in the Backes thread when I was one of maybe 5 people who *really* hated the deal in our section. It was the same in the Beleskey thread. This place has a tendency to take the majority view point, and mock anyone who doesn't have it. Won't change things for me, I wasn't going to change my tune just because I wasn't one of the popular kids. So I encourage you all to allow different view points on this team, because maybe just maybe, that view point turns out to be right.

One really interesting thing to consider now is what to do with Bergy's prime. Based on the current management of assets, I see no evidence that Sweeneely have any idea what they're doing about that. They're still half in, half out. And that's been my main complaint for 3 years. The plan doesn't really make total sense if the goal is a cup during Bergy's career, in a speedy skilled nhl.
 

GoBs

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I know this is a Rask thread but Krecji and his $7,250,000 per has never scored more than 20 goals twice in his career doesn't help
 
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veganbruin

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Sep 20, 2013
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Love how passionate this fan base is and I’m the first one to call out mistakes but come in, it’s so early. The team hasn’t fallen behind the 8 ball yet. Just some inconsistency that will probably be fixed when the D is healthy and they have played together for another 5-10 more games. Talk to me after thanksgiving and I’ll panic with you guys. Life’s too short.
 

JOKER 192

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I know this is a Rask thread but Krecji and his $7,250,000 per has never scored more than 20 goals twice in his career doesn't help

How is this a Tuukka tread? It's name B's have plenty of NON- TUUKKA problems. As in, problems that don't involve Tuukka.
 

Dicky113

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Oct 30, 2007
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Good post. So let me put it this way:

-Will people keep calling Charlie a good draft pick long after the draft is done?
-Will people keep calling the Pasta contract great long after it's been signed?
-Will people keep calling the Cassidy switch great years later?

If the answer to that is yes, as it should be, then there's no artificial rule saying we can't talk about the past mistakes. Past mistakes have a direct correlation to future ones based on human error and skillsets. The blind spots that Sweeneely have are pretty glaring, and there's literally nothing wrong with understand how we got here, and how we'll get out.

I took 2 years of abuse in the Backes thread when I was one of maybe 5 people who *really* hated the deal in our section. It was the same in the Beleskey thread. This place has a tendency to take the majority view point, and mock anyone who doesn't have it. Won't change things for me, I wasn't going to change my tune just because I wasn't one of the popular kids. So I encourage you all to allow different view points on this team, because maybe just maybe, that view point turns out to be right.

One really interesting thing to consider now is what to do with Bergy's prime. Based on the current management of assets, I see no evidence that Sweeneely have any idea what they're doing about that. They're still half in, half out. And that's been my main complaint for 3 years. The plan doesn't really make total sense if the goal is a cup during Bergy's career, in a speedy skilled nhl.

Can’t like this post enough.

Some confuse being a fan with having to blindly follow and defend every decision, player and action made by the team, and crucify those that don’t.
 

GloryDaze4877

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Can’t like this post enough.

Some confuse being a fan with having to blindly follow and defend every decision, player and action made by the team, and crucify those that don’t.

There is a huge difference between constructive criticism (which I have zero problem with) and bringing up passing on Barzal every 5 minutes.

The other difference is that things like drafting McAvoy, signing Pasta, and hiring Cassidy are all things that actually happened to the B's. So was signing Backes. If you want to discuss the impact that has had on the team, do it until the cows come home.

The B's didn't draft Barzal, so anything after that is pure speculation. While it's likely he would have been successful in Boston, there is no way to tell that for sure because of the players (specifically centers) the B's already had. If people want to bitch about it, great, but keep it to a single thread instead of having it permeate nearly every thread on the f***ing board.
 

Dicky113

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Oct 30, 2007
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There is a huge difference between constructive criticism (which I have zero problem with) and bringing up passing on Barzal every 5 minutes.

The other difference is that things like drafting McAvoy, signing Pasta, and hiring Cassidy are all things that actually happened to the B's. So was signing Backes. If you want to discuss the impact that has had on the team, do it until the cows come home.

The B's didn't draft Barzal, so anything after that is pure speculation. While it's likely he would have been successful in Boston, there is no way to tell that for sure because of the players (specifically centers) the B's already had. If people want to ***** about it, great, but keep it to a single thread instead of having it permeate nearly every thread on the ****ing board.

To me, this attitude only spurs further comments about it. You can’t say something unreasonable like: “hey, we didn’t pick the guy when he was gifted to us so please don’t mention him when discussing our lack of high end forward prospects”, and expect people aren’t going to say “but but but, that was a collosal mistake!”

Saying “maybe Barzal wouldn’t even have been a star in Boston” is just silly.

And don’t get me started on Backes...
 
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Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
Nov 26, 2006
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I’ll say what I said last November they are deep on D and have elite forward skill

I’m figuring from around November 5 to April 5 they have a top 5 record in the league

That’s 5 months

I’ll bring this back April 5 to see how I did

I’m more worried Tampa lost 7-1 to Arizona

They got serious issues. Not


realistically what are some problems of the team and what aren't problems?

relying on too many kid scorers... has always been a potential problem for any team. the number of teams where the young guys struggle far exceeds the number of teams where the young guys band together like the 1981 oilers. if we expect marchand/Bergeron/pastrnak/krecji to be enough scoring at playoff time... we will need to get very very lucky to have success. it might work for us, but smart money says we need backes to get healthy... and probably need to add a guy like rick nash… and even then we are very dependent on unproven kids for our depth

but... that said... we haven't had torey krug in the lineup for a single game yet. McAvoy was shook up against Edmonton I guess and has mostly missed 3 of our last 4 games we didn't win. that's our 2 best offensive dmen out of the lineup... and yes backes was out too. that's a lot of our vetern scoring depth. our 3rd/4th lines are pretty scary when backes is out of the lineup.

in goal... rask has not been as good the last few years as he was the first few years. hes still better than average, but better than average isn't really good enough. success at playoff time requires a goalie stealing games for you. we haven't seen rask stealing games. maybe hes just a big talented goalie that doesn't have that X factor mentally?

but... now our backup is as good as hes been since the days of moog/lemilen. and if the team performs well in front of rask… gets him a lead... shuts down the defense... weve seen rask post up results better than any goalie in history. rask wont cost us a chance to win. the biggest complaint is he cant carry a team that needs to be carried. hes a bit too expensive for what he gives us. could we finally be at a point we should trade him for a better money goalie? can an older goalie with winning pedigree be good enough to team with halak and give us good enough goaltending until the kids are ready? we have options here.

are we too small a team? are we too slow? speed is more about pace... playing fast hockey is more important than skating fast. the Bergeron/marchand line has eyes on the back of their head. they are clearly fast enough. I think the kids will be faster as they get confidence. we got talent on the blueline. we will be fast enough... but are we too small? do we disappear when the heavy play starts? guys like Bergeron and marchand cant be intimidated but having a lot of kids might make us vulnerable. I do think we could use a couple vets with decent size and team compete levels to help with the size

are we cup favorites if the kids don't come through for us? not a chance... we aren't nearly perfect enough to win without the kids finding their mojo

but are we close enough to make a couple upgrades and become a cup favorite if the kids do find their voice?

what im hoping for at this point...

solve calgarys goaltending woes by dealing rask to them for smith/bennett. bennett joins backes/Heinen on a 3rd line and we get a good upgrade there. meanwhile smith might have the hot streak in him that would do well at playoffs... and even if he doesn't, halak is a competent goalie that would give us competent goaltending if hes not overused. a tandem of smith/halak would be fine as we wait for vlader to hopefully upgrade the net in a couple years.

and then im hoping rick nash does sign on before December 1. let him join krecji/debrusk for a third line... but debrusk doesn't automatically get the spot. let Bjork/donato push him for the spot

a top12 forward group of
pastrnak/Bergeron/marchand
nash/krecji/debrusk {pushed by Bjork and donato}
backes/bennett/Heinen
wagner/kuraly/Nordstrom

would be a deep deep lineup for playoffs

and a defense of
McAvoy/moore
carlo/chara
miller/krug
with grez as the 7th is a deep deep defense

we aren't so far away from making this a reality and this would be a very strong playoff contender
 
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