News Article: Avs Won't Repeat Stastny Mistake - I.E. Why Terry Frei is the Avs Best Sports Writer.

[Balthazar]

I can't imagine us getting less for Stastny+PAP at the deadline than what Buffalo got for Miller+Ott. (If we really wanted rid off PAP so much)

Briere had negative value (4M cap hit and he wasn't going to make the club) AND we had to give PAP + a draft pick to get him. That says it all about PAP's value. It was heavily in the negative which is why Roy was unable to dump him last season or at the draft.

 

[AnimalMother73]

I read the article and even though its about Stastny I read far more into how the ROR situation might unfold and quickly. I think Stazz leaving just further re-enforces management's MO regarding structure and dedication to team. Would not be surprised at all if he's traded a day or so before the arbitration hearing gets scheduled.

 

[Balthazar]

I read the article and even though its about Stastny I read far more into how the ROR situation might unfold and quickly. I think Stazz leaving just further re-enforces management's MO regarding structure and dedication to team. Would not be surprised at all if he's traded a day or so before the arbitration hearing gets scheduled.

I don't think they are allowed by the NHL to trade him before arbitration. They could have already a deal in place though...maybe that would explain why they sign so many D-men, because they know that ROR and a couple of D's are going somewhere else.

 

[AnimalMother73]

Was kind of wondering that too, that he might actually get signed then shipped elsewhere quickly w/ some dead weight....hopefully a good return coming back. At this point I hope its an 8 year contract and he stays or good bye and good riddance, don't need the constant angst about his longevity as an Av due to how valuable ($$) he thinks he is relative to everyone else.

 

[ABasin]

I read it as Frei kissing the Avs behinds attempting to protect the front office from further criticism by upset fans.

He's clearly pandering Sakic and Roy here.

He did that for years with PL. He's definitely a kiss-ass. Though I didn't get that from the article in question.

 

[ABasin]

I meant trading Stastny at the trade deadline for a 1st/player/prospect, much like what Jagr and Iginla fetched at last year's trade deadline.

A late first, a roster player and a B prospect for Stastny at the deadline is better than 3 play-off wins.

Yes they could have, and they should have traded him. You have to leave the emotions out and think long term. It's not ridiculous by any stretch.

I agree with you, though I suspect not too many other people will.

Though the Stastny situation was tough for Colorado for several reasons. He was overpaid for years, but then in the last year of his contract was worth the money. So, Colorado would have had a hard time trading him last season due to his contract, and were stuck with trading him at this year's deadline. Or of course, not at all.

And I also agree that the 3 playoff wins are/were not worth the "loss" of a good draft pick or prospect or player.

They wouldn't have gotten anything close to that though.

Not sure what they would have received in return at the deadline. However, since Stastny was the single most sought after UFA (what - 15 teams contacted him?) and the single highest paid UFA - both last week - I find it impossible to believe that the Avs couldn't have received a reasonable compensation package in return for him just 90 days ago. I simply don't believe it.

t 2nd, a b/c prospect, and a low 2nd/3rd line player. Yep, totally worth it...

Asset management is possibly the most overrated term on this site.

I disagree. Poor asset management will ultimately catch up with a team. I believe it's kind of like drafting late in the 1st round year after year after year (or perhaps having no 1st round picks for several years, because you traded them for veteran players - that sort of thing). In any given year, it's probably not a huge deal. But after a number of years, that simply catches up with you.

Overpaying for players (with assets, not money) bleeds an organization over time. Asset management matters.

 

[ABasin]

Yeah I don't get the "second round pick > the experience of winning the division and playoff games". It's an assumption that those things would have happened anyway or come around all the time much like it's an assumption a pick is going to do anything for the franchise.

The Avs are trying to build a culture too. It matters to have a reputation that treats players with respect. Teams that sign players to 6 year deals and dump them a year or two into a contract get a reputation or ones that are constantly buying out, trading their players for scraps at the deadline. Those things matter too.

Why are trading a UFA-to-be and buying out a contract of an underperforming player signs of disrespect? By that token, any player who signs a contract for more than he's really worth, is a sign of disrespect towards an organization?

I get the 'culture' part of your post, but that only goes so far, IMO. Would it be OK if the Avs built a great 'culture' - players played hard for each other, everyone is happy with his contract, everyone loves the coach, etc. - let's say the best culture in the history of the NHL……..but they finished in last place every year?

The culture thing is an afterthought to winning hockey, like it or not. It's also an afterthought to getting paid as well as possible, like it or not. Yes, players probably want to have a reasonable amount of respect, but I'm pretty sure they're just fine with their team putting good players around them in a winning atmosphere where they get paid well also.

There's nothing on earth wrong with trading a UFA-to-be, if that UFA can't be signed by the team. Not one thing wrong with it.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I ve given up on what HF thinks a player can return, I mean look at Kesler. That was laughably waaay off what actually transpired.

Late first round pick, 3rd/2nd line tweener, and an underperforming former 1st round depth player

That's really not much different than what we were saying here. People here were throwing out things like the 1st + McGinn/PaP ( we severely overestimated him, but McGinn is close to Bonino) + Siemens/Elliott/Hishon (all guys who should be ready for a depth role, at least they are progressing into it though instead of regressing into that role like Sbisa).

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I agree with you, though I suspect not too many other people will.

Though the Stastny situation was tough for Colorado for several reasons. He was overpaid for years, but then in the last year of his contract was worth the money. So, Colorado would have had a hard time trading him last season due to his contract, and were stuck with trading him at this year's deadline. Or of course, not at all.

And I also agree that the 3 playoff wins are/were not worth the "loss" of a good draft pick or prospect or player.



Not sure what they would have received in return at the deadline. However, since Stastny was the single most sought after UFA (what - 15 teams contacted him?) and the single highest paid UFA - both last week - I find it impossible to believe that the Avs couldn't have received a reasonable compensation package in return for him just 90 days ago. I simply don't believe it.



I disagree. Poor asset management will ultimately catch up with a team. I believe it's kind of like drafting late in the 1st round year after year after year (or perhaps having no 1st round picks for several years, because you traded them for veteran players - that sort of thing). In any given year, it's probably not a huge deal. But after a number of years, that simply catches up with you.

Overpaying for players (with assets, not money) bleeds an organization over time. Asset management matters.

At the trade deadline Staz did not have that value. He wasn't thought of the top guy until the season was over and he had that playoff performance.

There was nothing we could have got for him after the season ended. Teams don't give good packages just for a players rights. At least at the deadline said player can help them win that year. You are not just trading for their rights but also for the chance for them to help you finish out the current season.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I understand it's just business, you gotta do what you gotta do. They bought out Zanon. My point is it's not their style to sell off players, obviously if it has to be done it will. It would be naive to think otherwise. It's also naive not to put big consideration into the perception and message it sends to the fanbase, one that expected to buy playoff tickets should they get there. Sakic and Roy get that part of it. It's a sport but it's all about marketing and selling the message.

And let's be honest here, even if they had received a second round pick in return for Stastny, they still would have used it to draft Kyle Wood.

 

[DRL]

I still look at it like a trade of stastny for iginla. You can't have both. So I don't see it like a wasted asset.

Moulson, gaborik and vanek went for peanuts at deadline. Stastny wasn't returning anything of value.

Duchene was hurt. You don't trade your next best center and longest serving team member when you got a legit shot at division and anything can happen in the playoffs.

My gut says Roy and joe wanted iginla over stastny once they started talking to jarome and didn't go all out for Paul to remain with the team.

If the team can lock up ror, I think he easily replaces Paul's role and Iggy slots in perfectly on the top 2 lines.

 

[MvpKinnon]

I understand it's just business, you gotta do what you gotta do. They bought out Zanon. My point is it's not their style to sell off players, obviously if it has to be done it will. It would be naive to think otherwise. It's also naive not to put big consideration into the perception and message it sends to the fanbase, one that expected to buy playoff tickets should they get there. Sakic and Roy get that part of it. It's a sport but it's all about marketing and selling the message.

And let's be honest here, even if they had received a second round pick in return for Stastny, they still would have used it to draft Kyle Wood.

Exactly. Getting the fans back is huge for Avs right now. They can't sell fan favorites right before the playoffs.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Exactly. Getting the fans back is huge for Avs right now. They can't sell fan favorites right before the playoffs.

Besides what playoff teams trades off UFA's to be right at the deadline? Rangers weren't going to trade Stralman, Boyle, etc. at the deadline. Maybe the should have traded Pouliot but whatever. Asset management has become an annoying buzzword.

 

[Freudian]

Besides what playoff teams trades off UFA's to be right at the deadline? Rangers weren't going to trade Stralman, Boyle, etc. at the deadline. Maybe the should have traded Pouliot but whatever. Asset management has become an annoying buzzword.

Rangers traded Callahan, their captain, because he wasn't going to re-sign.

 

[hockeyfish]

Rangers traded Callahan, their captain, because he wasn't going to re-sign.

But only because a future hall of famer decided to demand a trade to their team. It was a very unique trade, which was actually more of a buy move than a sell move.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Rangers traded Callahan, their captain, because he wasn't going to re-sign.

And look what they had to add in order to get something of value back. MSL is 39 years old, that's how low a UFA's value was at the deadline.

 

[ABasin]

At the trade deadline Staz did not have that value. He wasn't thought of the top guy until the season was over and he had that playoff performance.

I can't bring myself to believe that StL paid $7M per, due to 7 hockey games.

 

[ABasin]

And look what they had to add in order to get something of value back. MSL is 39 years old, that's how low a UFA's value was at the deadline.

Right. Callahan returned a guy who was the NHL's reigning scoring leader from the season before, was scoring at an almost 40 goal pace at the time of the trade, with a year left on his contract. A guy who, as an aside, was a big contributor to the Rangers going all the way to the Finals.

Yeah, no return there at all.

NY did exactly what a team is supposed to do with a valuable UFA who won't resign.

Stastny had value at the deadline, folks. Not minimal value either.

 

[hockeyfish]

Right. Callahan returned a guy who was the NHL's reigning scoring leader from the season before, was scoring at an almost 40 goal pace at the time of the trade, with a year left on his contract. A guy who, as an aside, was a big contributor to the Rangers going all the way to the Finals.

Yeah, no return there at all.

NY did exactly what a team is supposed to do with a valuable UFA who won't resign.

Stastny had value at the deadline, folks. Not minimal value either.

No, that is a much different situation. As you very much pointed out, it wasn't a "sell" move by NY, it was a "buy" move. I'm sure if the Avs had a trade for Stastny where they could actually get better for the playoffs, they would have done it. But, getting a ****ing pick ain't it.

 

[Taak19]

I still look at it like a trade of stastny for iginla. You can't have both. So I don't see it like a wasted asset.

Moulson, gaborik and vanek went for peanuts at deadline. Stastny wasn't returning anything of value.

Duchene was hurt. You don't trade your next best center and longest serving team member when you got a legit shot at division and anything can happen in the playoffs.

My gut says Roy and joe wanted iginla over stastny once they started talking to jarome and didn't go all out for Paul to remain with the team.

If the team can lock up ror, I think he easily replaces Paul's role and Iggy slots in perfectly on the top 2 lines.

Exactly. And in my opinion it is a trade that we won.

Sure the loss of Stastny hurts but with the amount of C in the organization and lack of scoring wingers, it was necessary.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Right. Callahan returned a guy who was the NHL's reigning scoring leader from the season before, was scoring at an almost 40 goal pace at the time of the trade, with a year left on his contract. A guy who, as an aside, was a big contributor to the Rangers going all the way to the Finals.

Yeah, no return there at all.

NY did exactly what a team is supposed to do with a valuable UFA who won't resign.

Stastny had value at the deadline, folks. Not minimal value either.

Callahan was a very unique situation, because St. Louis asked out and only wanted to go to New York. I don't think it's comparable at all to what Stastny would have returned.

Vanek got a 2nd and a decent prospect, that's the best comparable.

 

[Avs_19]

But only because a future hall of famer decided to demand a trade to their team. It was a very unique trade, which was actually more of a buy move than a sell move.

He was getting traded regardless, they just got lucky when the whole MSL situation went down. Both Callahan and Girardi were going to get traded unless they signed extensions.

I still think it's a different situation though. The Rangers can get away with that but the Avs probably thought they couldn't. It was the first season where they were actually relevant again so they probably felt they couldn't trade one of their better players for futures.

 

[Freudian]

Callahan was a very unique situation, because St. Louis asked out and only wanted to go to New York. I don't think it's comparable at all to what Stastny would have returned.

Vanek got a 2nd and a decent prospect, that's the best comparable.

The second rounder was conditional. But that trade was in the last 15 minutes before trade deadline so Snow had to deal from a position of extreme weakness. The Moulson/Gaborik trades are better comparisons if we want to limit it to last year.

 

[BB1133]

Trading Stastny at the deadline in a remarkable season would have been ripped as sending the "wrong" message. But I doubt Sakic and Roy will worry about that again.

Who would have ripped them if they traded him at the deadline? I understand that GMs were a lot more sensible when it came to trading for rentals this year, but it would have been nice if they explored the market to see what they could have got. Since the Avs weren't winning the cup this year anyways, they should have kept the big picture in mind and continued to acquire assets towards the long-term plan.

Stastny was the biggest FA of the offseason, so I have to think Sakic could have got a decent prospect in return.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I can't bring myself to believe that StL paid $7M per, due to 7 hockey games.

They paid 7 mil because they were desperate for a C and he was clearly the best one in FA. Overpaying a player by .5/1mil is a little different than taking a risk in trading for a potential rental.

What do you think they would have traded for him at the deadline? Certainly not anything that would make us a better team instantly. Especially since they were a cup front runner at the time and their only question mark was at goalie, which they tried to fix with Miller. Nobody was talking about their centers and how they were really lacking, just their average goalies. But after the season, their centers, specifically Backes, were getting tons of negative attention.

And all these other names being thrown out as comparisons are guys who were 100% going into FA. At the trade deadline Staz was 50/50 at worst.