Confirmed with Link: Avs sign Peyton Jones to ELC

[Cousin Eddie]

You can waive on the same day and be in compliance, so they could have waived Cole the same day right after claiming and it would have been fine. I’m not speaking to Dell in general, but that the Avs could have claimed a goalie. The larger mistake was not getting a guy this off-season. The Frank deal in general from last season is looking more and more questionable too

You really don’t think Sakic has a plan for this? I think it’s pretty clear he’ll be adding a good goalie once enough cap has been banked. He’s smarter than every single one of us. I think it’s crazy that people think he’s going to go into playoffs with Grubauer-Francouz-Miska. Like I’m not even slightly concerned over it.

 

[Balthazar]

You really don’t think Sakic has a plan for this? I think it’s pretty clear he’ll be adding a good goalie once enough cap has been banked. He’s smarter than every single one of us. I think it’s crazy that people think he’s going to go into playoffs with Grubauer-Francouz-Miska. Like I’m not even slightly concerned over it.

I'm not as confident as you are. He had all the time, all the reasons and plenty of opportunities to make changes in the offseason and he didn't.

Goalies take time to adjust to a new team, a new system and a new defense. Waiting at the deadline is risky.

 

[Islay1989]

Joe gonna Jedi mind trick Murray into letting Gibson leave with us on the bus.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I'm not as confident as you are. He had all the time, all the reasons and plenty of opportunities to make changes in the offseason and he didn't.

Goalies take time to adjust to a new team, a new system and a new defense. Waiting at the deadline is risky.

He had all the time, reasons and opportunities but never once had the cap space. This team couldn’t even have a 23 man roster until two days ago.

 

[Balthazar]

He had all the time, reasons and opportunities but never once had the cap space. This team couldn’t even have a 23 man roster until two days ago.

Saad costs 5M.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Saad costs 5M.

But they were never going to carry 3 goalies on their active roster for a full season. They were never going to waive Frankie either.

The fact that you mentioned Saad taking away space from acquiring a goalie leads me to believe that you think they should add a legit top goalie and not just another third string. I’m actually with you on that. But there’s no way they carry 3 goalies all year. Plus they always get hurt and that’s what f***s Colorado over. Now they have a few months before the deadline to watch goalies around the league, pick one out and target them at the deadline. It’s not as big a deal to carry 3 goalies for just a few months. AND they get to have Brandon Saad. It gives them most of the season to assess their own internal goaltending situation and also assess it around the league.

 

[henchman21]

You really don’t think Sakic has a plan for this? I think it’s pretty clear he’ll be adding a good goalie once enough cap has been banked. He’s smarter than every single one of us. I think it’s crazy that people think he’s going to go into playoffs with Grubauer-Francouz-Miska. Like I’m not even slightly concerned over it.

I think Sakic had a plan, and that plan was give Grubs and Frank another shot. That last year's health was a fluke and they could count on them. If they couldn't then make a bigger move at the deadline. My problems with that, and I stated it a couple weeks ago, are it kicks the can down the road (again) and it puts a risk of Miska running 8-10 games during the season where the Avs could very easily lose home ice during the playoffs.

I support solving the issue long-term, however that has to happen. IMO if the Avs were going to go with Grubs/Frank, then they should have paid through the nose to get a high end young goalie with a waiver exemption.

 

[Balthazar]

The fact that you mentioned Saad taking away space from acquiring a goalie leads me to believe that you think they should add a legit top goalie and not just another third string

I've been saying that since the 3rd game of the Dallas series.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I think Sakic had a plan, and that plan was give Grubs and Frank another shot. That last year's health was a fluke and they could count on them. If they couldn't then make a bigger move at the deadline. My problems with that, and I stated it a couple weeks ago, are it kicks the can down the road (again) and it puts a risk of Miska running 8-10 games during the season where the Avs could very easily lose home ice during the playoffs.

I support solving the issue long-term, however that has to happen. IMO if the Avs were going to go with Grubs/Frank, then they should have paid through the nose to get a high end young goalie with a waiver exemption.

I get that, but I think Sakic is smart enough to not go through 8-10 losses with Miska before addressing that in your hypothetical situation lol. Kuemper and Raanta are both in the division even. If Sakic needs to make a move suddenly he can but he doesn’t even have to begin to consider that until there’s signs of incompetence.

Everubody gets mad at Sakic for not making certain moves at the exact time they would yet here he goes making the team substantially better year after year as all the people in the hockey world way smarter than us fans compliment how amazing he is. He’s thinking a step ahead of me and you believe it or not.

 

[henchman21]

I get that, but I think Sakic is smart enough to not go through 8-10 losses with Miska before addressing that in your hypothetical situation lol. Kuemper has Raanta are both in the division even. If Sakic needs to make a move suddenly he can but he doesn’t even have to begin to consider that until there’s signs of incompetence.

Everubody gets mad at Sakic for not making certain moves at the exact time they would yet her he goes making the team substantially better year after year as all the people in the hockey world way smarter than us fans compliment how amazing he is. He’s thinking a step ahead of me and you believe it or not.

I'm not denying Sakic is smarter than me at this. That is very clear, but this is the 3rd or 4th year in a row where the Avs have had injury prone goalies and had to rely on their #3. I said 8-10 games too, not losses. That translates to about 4 losses and could easily make the difference between finishing ahead of Vegas or behind them. The #3G issue is clearly an issue with this team. Just like the #3C spot is clearly an issue with this team. There is a cap and Sakic went after other holes/changes while taking a calculated risk. All GMs against the cap (internal or just in general) make these types of decisions. I would argue up and down that the problem should have really been solved by finding a completely reliable starter, but not having insurance for Frank/Grubs was a risk and it could easily bite the Avs here.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I'm not denying Sakic is smarter than me at this. That is very clear, but this is the 3rd or 4th year in a row where the Avs have had injury prone goalies and had to rely on their #3. I said 8-10 games too, not losses. That translates to about 4 losses and could easily make the difference between finishing ahead of Vegas or behind them. The #3G issue is clearly an issue with this team. Just like the #3C spot is clearly an issue with this team. There is a cap and Sakic went after other holes/changes while taking a calculated risk. All GMs against the cap (internal or just in general) make these types of decisions. I would argue up and down that the problem should have really been solved by finding a completely reliable starter, but not having insurance for Frank/Grubs was a risk and it could easily bite the Avs here.

Things take time dude. Yes it’s been a problem for 3-4 years but not as big as other issues which Sakic has addressed. 4 years ago they had one of the worst defenses in the league. Now it’s the best. Then the Avs were a one line team and he addressed that. Then he was set to go into this season with Joonas Donskoi in their top 6. He addressed that.

It’s unreasonable to expect perfection but it seems like you do. I agree with the holes on the team that you see right now, but to expect him to solve absolutely everything in one offseason is just silly talk. Especially with the cap crunch and unprecedented times. And if he did address goaltending and the 3C position, fans would just find whatever their weakest point is and complain that he didn’t address that.

I get the concerns, but they’re just silly hypotheticals at this point. He has a full year to bank cap space and address those positions of need that he didn’t have the cap space to successfully solve during the offseason. If he doesn’t address them and the Avs fail, complain then. But to complain about these areas after everything he’s addressed and with zero cap flexibility is just expecting too much. Tampa Bay never had Goodrow, Coleman or Bogo on their roster opening week last year either.

 

[Richard88]

I think Sakic had a plan, and that plan was give Grubs and Frank another shot. That last year's health was a fluke and they could count on them. If they couldn't then make a bigger move at the deadline. My problems with that, and I stated it a couple weeks ago, are it kicks the can down the road (again) and it puts a risk of Miska running 8-10 games during the season where the Avs could very easily lose home ice during the playoffs.

I support solving the issue long-term, however that has to happen. IMO if the Avs were going to go with Grubs/Frank, then they should have paid through the nose to get a high end young goalie with a waiver exemption.

Such as which goalie(s)?

 

[tigervixxxen]

They have avoided the concept of a real third goalie ever since the Leafs had two taken on the same day, now for some reason the Avs try to get by getting cute with it. I don’t buy at all this is a coincidence Jones signed when Frank is hurt. They may rather have Jones on the taxi squad than Werner, which I get but the taxi squad is one step to the show.

I don’t understand they won’t just sign a proper third and try to get him through waivers, if he doesn’t pass then you are no worse off then you are now. But so many people are convinced it doesn’t matter who your third is and that they all pretty much suck so fine go about it this way then.

I would have claimed and carried a third or signed a third in the summer I’ve been saying since before the bubble that the play was going to be to carry 3 goalies in this season. But that ship and the cap space sailed so I’m sure they’ll burn more assets to bring in a replacement level third at some point like they always do.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Such as which goalie(s)?

Yeah I also disagree with that part too. Paying through the nose for a 3rd string goalie certainly isn’t a recipe for success. If they want to upgrade goaltending they should actually upgrade their current goaltending. Not get a guy who might win an extra game or two over the course of the entire season IF both current goalies go down. At the end of the day we aren’t winning in the playoffs with a third string caliber goalie anyway. Get another starter or don’t worry about it.

 

[JoeSakic13]

You know your team is doing ok when the fanbase argues over an AHL backup signing.

 

[tigervixxxen]

You know your team is doing ok when the fanbase argues over an AHL backup signing.

You mean the guy starting tonight?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

You mean the guy starting tonight?

So you wouldn’t be upset if we got a more third string goalie, Miska moved to AHL starter and Werner was the AHL backup? Isn’t veteran fringe NHL depth that blocks our youth the thing you hate most about this franchise?

If Miska starts a bunch of NHL games and struggles why don’t we complain then.

 

[henchman21]

Things take time dude. Yes it’s been a problem for 3-4 years but not as big as other issues which Sakic has addressed. 4 years ago they had one of the worst defenses in the league. Now it’s the best. Then the Avs were a one line team and he addressed that. Then he was set to go into this season with Joonas Donskoi in their top 6. He addressed that.

It’s unreasonable to expect perfection but it seems like you do. I agree with the holes on the team that you see right now, but to expect him to solve absolutely everything in one offseason is just silly talk. Especially with the cap crunch and unprecedented times. And if he did address goaltending and the 3C position, fans would just find whatever their weakest point is and complain that he didn’t address that.

I get the concerns, but they’re just silly hypotheticals at this point. He has a full year to bank cap space and address those positions of need that he didn’t have the cap space to successfully solve during the offseason. If he doesn’t address them and the Avs fail, complain then. But to complain about these areas after everything he’s addressed and with zero cap flexibility is just expecting too much. Tampa Bay never had Goodrow, Coleman or Bogo on their roster opening week last year either.

I understand it takes time and he's trying to build as complete of roster as he can. I just don't buy this #3G as an issue that couldn't have been easily mitigated. The #3C spot is becoming an increasingly expensive spot to fix. I give more leeway there as long as he ends up fixing it prior to the deadline this year. If he doesn't do that would be multiple seasons in a row that it was a significant issue and a valid criticism. Every team has weaknesses and the GMs job is to continue to address them to improve the team.

You mention Tampa and how they didn't have 3 key pieces. JBB made a calculated move to not address their grit/defense problem a couple seasons ago. He thought the team was good enough to win, and if things fell right, they could have been. But the next season, he made a few moves to solidify the weaknesses on the team. He improved the backup goalie to help Vasi more. He 'overpaid' to secure two third line players who were gritty and played good defense. Then he addressed the defensive depth issue by getting Shatty and Bogo. He looked at the weaknesses of the team and why they lost to Columbus, and fixed those issues.

I think Sakic should continually evaluate his team and mitigate their weaknesses the best he can, and that isn't too much to ask of a GM. When you look back at what hurt the Avs in the playoffs last season, what were the three main causes? Goaltending health, defensive health and lack of a #3C. On the defensive side, they didn't add depth, but added Toews and Byram/Timmins should add a bit more depth. Easily check that one off. But the other two haven't been addressed at all. As I stated earlier, I get the #3C spot as it can be expensive to fix and the Avs were cap limited (though I'd argue Saad money would have been better spent at 3C). It is already showing to be an issue this season too. If it continues, Sakic needs to address it before the deadline. The 3G spot isn't expensive or difficult to fill for a player that is an improvement on Miska (or maybe even Frank).

 

[henchman21]

Such as which goalie(s)?

Oettinger, Ingram, Merzlikins, Primeau. They'd be expensive, especially Merzlikins.

 

[Richard88]

We're gonna have enough capspace at the deadline to acquire Kuemper and run with 3 goalies and keep everyone here happy. If Kuemper does well, keep him and let Grubauer walk. If Kuemper doesn't do well, resign Grubauer and trade Kuemper in the offseason.

 

[tigervixxxen]

So you wouldn’t be upset if we got a more third string goalie, Miska moved to AHL starter and Werner was the AHL backup? Isn’t veteran fringe NHL depth that blocks our youth the thing you hate most about this franchise?

If Miska starts a bunch of NHL games and struggles why don’t we complain then.

Not sure I quite follow. I hate burning assets to get something they could have had for free or planned for, which is the path they are going down again. If I was at all concerned about Werner the big question is why isn’t he starting tonight. Two guys start in the AHL because of all the back to backs so whoever they get to be on the taxi squad is of no consequence to playing Werner in the AHL.

This Jones thing is not just about the AHL backup, he already was that without the contract lol. These things don’t matter until they do and suddenly Jones has to play a NHL game.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I understand it takes time and he's trying to build as complete of roster as he can. I just don't buy this #3G as an issue that couldn't have been easily mitigated. The #3C spot is becoming an increasingly expensive spot to fix. I give more leeway there as long as he ends up fixing it prior to the deadline this year. If he doesn't do that would be multiple seasons in a row that it was a significant issue and a valid criticism. Every team has weaknesses and the GMs job is to continue to address them to improve the team.

You mention Tampa and how they didn't have 3 key pieces. JBB made a calculated move to not address their grit/defense problem a couple seasons ago. He thought the team was good enough to win, and if things fell right, they could have been. But the next season, he made a few moves to solidify the weaknesses on the team. He improved the backup goalie to help Vasi more. He 'overpaid' to secure two third line players who were gritty and played good defense. Then he addressed the defensive depth issue by getting Shatty and Bogo. He looked at the weaknesses of the team and why they lost to Columbus, and fixed those issues.

I think Sakic should continually evaluate his team and mitigate their weaknesses the best he can, and that isn't too much to ask of a GM. When you look back at what hurt the Avs in the playoffs last season, what were the three main causes? Goaltending health, defensive health and lack of a #3C. On the defensive side, they didn't add depth, but added Toews and Byram/Timmins should add a bit more depth. Easily check that one off. But the other two haven't been addressed at all. As I stated earlier, I get the #3C spot as it can be expensive to fix and the Avs were cap limited (though I'd argue Saad money would have been better spent at 3C). It is already showing to be an issue this season too. If it continues, Sakic needs to address it before the deadline. The 3G spot isn't expensive or difficult to fill for a player that is an improvement on Miska (or maybe even Frank).

But the 3G spot doesn’t impact their ability to compete for a Stanley Cup. It does block prospects though. Sakic’s plan for Annunen is to come over and play AHL games to end this year. Werner is there. Miska is there. They aren’t adding another NHL/AHL tweener unless it’s completely necessary.

 

[The Kingslayer]

#BringBackBernier?

You joke but I would.

 

[Richard88]

Oettinger, Ingram, Merzlikins, Primeau. They'd be expensive, especially Merzlikins.

Ah of course, Merzlikins. For some reason I forgot that he was expansion exempt. That would indeed be a shrewd acquisition. Expensive though no doubt.

Maybe if Byram makes an impact Timmins or Graves can be used in a goalie trade. After all out D group would still be pretty solid even losing one of them, question is only if it's worth weakening the defensive depth to make changes in net.

Toews --- Makar
Girard --- Johnson
Byram --- Graves/Timmins

 

[henchman21]

But the 3G spot doesn’t impact their ability to compete for a Stanley Cup. It does block prospects though. Sakic’s plan for Annunen is to come over and play AHL games to end this year. Werner is there. Miska is there. They aren’t adding another NHL/AHL tweener unless it’s completely necessary.

Falling behind Vegas and St Louis so they have home ice in the playoffs (or others on the re-seeding) can hurt their chances at the Cup.