Confirmed with Link: Avs Sign Byram to ELC

[The Kingslayer]

Kakko is winning the Calder anyway. And Hughes plays in the East.

So Makar will probably finish 3rd or 4th in voting.

Kakko and Panarin are going to be magic if they play together next season.

 

[cgf]

quite confident that Mack resigning alone will eat EJ's contract. just hope we don't need that cap space before that.

...and that's if the cap doesn't rise. MacK's salary is more likely to triple than just double...though I don't think it'll get quite that high.

I'm definitely in the minority here, but I want him to get his 9 games then go back to junior. He's still a teenager, and the last thing I would want to do is screw up his development (see: Jost, Tyson) by having him play in the NHL then watch his performance fall off a cliff midway through the season. It's happened many times before, and when you don't have the AHL as an option it really handcuffs you. Let him go play with Trent Miner and dominate in Vancouver, then step into the NHL next year 100% ready both mentally and physically.

Honestly the only way I keep him up is if he's hands-down our best defenseman in those first 9 games and basically forces the team's hand. Even then I'd be carefully eyeing that 40 game mark as well.

All prospects are unique. Jost was rushed, but that doesn't mean that other guys weren't hurt by letting them stagnate at a level that they were too good for instead of challenging them at a higher level. And I'm unsure of how much more Byram can learn in the WHL that'll actually help him at the next level.

Now if he's just not ready for the NHL and keeping him up would only rattle his confidence then send him the f*** back down before any damage is done...but with how physically developed he is for his age, his game and his confidence, I'm not exactly expecting that to be the case.

Each case is different and for many other kids I'd rather they get the extra PT to work on their game and keep their confidence high...like with Cale, I was on board with him spending 2 years in college to polish his game at a level he could dominate when we drafted him; despite how high I was on him...but with Byram I'm much more worried about challenging him than rushing him given how polished and NHL-ready his body & game already are.

 

[Patagonia]

I'm definitely in the minority here, but I want him to get his 9 games then go back to junior. He's still a teenager, and the last thing I would want to do is screw up his development (see: Jost, Tyson) by having him play in the NHL then watch his performance fall off a cliff midway through the season. It's happened many times before, and when you don't have the AHL as an option it really handcuffs you. Let him go play with Trent Miner and dominate in Vancouver, then step into the NHL next year 100% ready both mentally and physically.

Honestly the only way I keep him up is if he's hands-down our best defenseman in those first 9 games and basically forces the team's hand. Even then I'd be carefully eyeing that 40 game mark as well.

I don’t believe you’re in the minority.

AVs are well stocked with LHD and should be fine this season. If he does reach the team, it’ll likely be 3rd line duties and for DMen, they should get lots of ice time to refine their game.

Send him back after giving him an NHL taste with a few games. He is only getting better and if he continues to dominate, he’ll reach the NHL more confident and better player.

 

[flyfysher]

I don’t believe you’re in the minority.

AVs are well stocked with LHD and should be fine this season. If he does reach the team, it’ll likely be 3rd line duties and for DMen, they should get lots of ice time to refine their game.

Send him back after giving him an NHL taste with a few games. He is only getting better and if he continues to dominate, he’ll reach the NHL more confident and better player.

I just want what is best for Byram and his long-term development and the staff has earned my trust so far overall.

 

[cgf]

I just want what is best for Byram and his long-term development and the staff has earned my trust so far overall.

That's fair. In general, I tend to like to over-cook prospects more than they do so I'm not as confident in them, but Byram falls into that too-good for the CHL but not eligible for the AHL range where I think they'll hope he's ready for some NHL action; even if he eventually needs to get sent back before banking a season towards UFA.

 

[MarkT]

...and that's if the cap doesn't rise. MacK's salary is more likely to triple than just double...though I don't think it'll get quite that high.


All prospects are unique. Jost was rushed, but that doesn't mean that other guys weren't hurt by letting them stagnate at a level that they were too good for instead of challenging them at a higher level. And I'm unsure of how much more Byram can learn in the WHL that'll actually help him at the next level.

Now if he's just not ready for the NHL and keeping him up would only rattle his confidence then send him the **** back down before any damage is done...but with how physically developed he is for his age, his game and his confidence, I'm not exactly expecting that to be the case.

Each case is different and for many other kids I'd rather they get the extra PT to work on their game and keep their confidence high...like with Cale, I was on board with him spending 2 years in college to polish his game at a level he could dominate when we drafted him; despite how high I was on him...but with Byram I'm much more worried about challenging him than rushing him given how polished and NHL-ready his body & game already are.

I just think it's extremely rare to find a teenage player who wouldn't benefit at least a bit from an extra year in junior. To me, if he's going to play all year in Colorado as a 3rd pair guy who likely hits a wall at some point like so many rookies do, I'd send him down. Yeah, but after a 9 game taste he'll have a better idea of exactly what he needs to work on, and he can spend the year doing that. He'll also have the world juniors to look forward to.

That being said, if he comes in and is instantly (and consistently) one of our three best defensemen, then you keep him up and deal with the consequences later.

 

[cgf]

I just think it's extremely rare to find a teenage player who wouldn't benefit at least a bit from an extra year in junior. To me, if he's going to play all year in Colorado as a 3rd pair guy who likely hits a wall at some point like so many rookies do, I'd send him down. Yeah, but after a 9 game taste he'll have a better idea of exactly what he needs to work on, and he can spend the year doing that. He'll also have the world juniors to look forward to.

That being said, if he comes in and is instantly (and consistently) one of our three best defensemen, then you keep him up and deal with the consequences later.

It may be rare, but it's not unheard of...and top 4 prospects tend to be rare-cases more often than the average bear...especially with the dub being weak atm.

So if he's just able to hold his own as the third pairing PMD to start the season, I'm down with platooning him & Graves/Rosen next to Connauton until we hit that 40 game mark when we'd need to decide if he had progressed enough to start his UFA clock or if he should be sent back down.

And just because he's on the Avs doesn't mean he can't still go the WJC...especially if he's only platooning on that third pairing spot instead of owning it, as going to the WJC would let us stretch out the 40 games that he can be on the roster for.

 

[Perratrooper]

IF Byram does make the jump this year, I would expect a semi-similar season to Noah Hanifin's rookie season adjusted for the higher scoring

 

[CalderKing21]

...and that's if the cap doesn't rise. MacK's salary is more likely to triple than just double...though I don't think it'll get quite that high.


All prospects are unique. Jost was rushed, but that doesn't mean that other guys weren't hurt by letting them stagnate at a level that they were too good for instead of challenging them at a higher level. And I'm unsure of how much more Byram can learn in the WHL that'll actually help him at the next level.

Now if he's just not ready for the NHL and keeping him up would only rattle his confidence then send him the **** back down before any damage is done...but with how physically developed he is for his age, his game and his confidence, I'm not exactly expecting that to be the case.

Each case is different and for many other kids I'd rather they get the extra PT to work on their game and keep their confidence high...like with Cale, I was on board with him spending 2 years in college to polish his game at a level he could dominate when we drafted him; despite how high I was on him...but with Byram I'm much more worried about challenging him than rushing him given how polished and NHL-ready his body & game already are.

I wouldn't even say he was rushed. Avs tend to start their tippy top guys out high rather than let them simmer. Unless they are just super raw.

 

[cgf]

I wouldn't even say he was rushed. Avs tend to start their tippy top guys out high rather than let them simmer. Unless they are just super raw.

Jost was rushed, and I'm not just saying that in hindsight, I was saying the same thing on here when it happened. We rush a lot of high picks, but we're still rushing them.

 

[Belgican]

Jost was rushed, and I'm not just saying that in hindsight, I was saying the same thing on here when it happened. We rush a lot of high picks, but we're still rushing them.

Jost wasn’t rushed, he wasn’t ready at all. Is Byram ready ? We’ll judge after his 9 games.

 

[cgf]

Jost wasn’t rushed, he wasn’t ready at all. Is Byram ready ? We’ll judge after his 9 games.

? Isn't that what being rushed means?

 

[Belgican]

? Isn't that what being rushed means?

Well I meant you can rush someone showing signs he is ready, but Jost was far from that, I would say it was a casting error.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Jost was rushed, and I'm not just saying that in hindsight, I was saying the same thing on here when it happened. We rush a lot of high picks, but we're still rushing them.

I think Jost being rushed was because of Jost wanting/demanding it. I was at UND at the time, it was a given that he was leaving after one season. It seemed like Jost forced the issue. I can't imagine anyone watching Jost at UND and thinking he should not do one or two more seasons in college.

 

[flyfysher]

I think Jost being rushed was because of Jost wanting/demanding it. I was at UND at the time, it was a given that he was leaving after one season. It seemed like Jost forced the issue. I can't imagine anyone watching Jost at UND and thinking he should not do one or two more seasons in college.

Do you think he is a bona-fide NHL'er that the Avs should keep and why or why not? Other posters have prematurely written him off but he certainly would have benefitted with one more year at UND.

 

[The Kingslayer]

At the very least Jost should been in the A a yr. No point now. Its up to Jost to prove his draft position

 

[Tweaky]

Even in a 3rd pairing role, I think it would be beneficial for Byram to play in the NHL over the WHL next year. The level of confidence he has shown tells me that he does not need that part of what a season dominating juniors would provide. And as far as the skill/physical development: even if he gets 15min a game (which would put him lower TOI/GM than all of Nemeth/Zad/Cole/Barrie/EJ/Girard last year....only Graves and Lindholm were below that line), it would put his total TOI not far behind what he would get in a shorter season in the WHL. Plus he would be working out with, practicing with, and learning from NHL teammates and NHL coaches, and playing against NHL competition. His psyche seems to be able to handle it, and the skill and physical improvements would be an order of magnitude better in the NHL.

But given the rest of the moves this offseason, it appears that Sakic is planning on having him play for the Giants again.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Do you think he is a bona-fide NHL'er that the Avs should keep and why or why not? Other posters have prematurely written him off but he certainly would have benefitted with one more year at UND.

Could go either way still. He won't fetch what he COULD be worth in a trade, so at this point hold onto him and see if he can become what we saw flashes of in the playoffs.

Ultimately though, I kinda feel like he is a TJ Oshie type player at his high end. He will never drive a line, but could make a useful part on a good team. Probably a player who will always think he is better than he is.

 

[flyfysher]

Could go either way still. He won't fetch what he COULD be worth in a trade, so at this point hold onto him and see if he can become what we saw flashes of in the playoffs.

Ultimately though, I kinda feel like he is a TJ Oshie type player at his high end. He will never drive a line, but could make a useful part on a good team. Probably a player who will always think he is better than he is.

I view Jost as having the ability to get to the right spots on the ice both offensively and defensively. He's got a quick stick and uses it to strip opponents and gain possession. Smart at reading plays and sneaky with his play. There's always a role for a player like that on a team. He's not particularly physically strong and initially I think he bulked up as conventional wisdom would dictate. Then I read he actually wanted to shed some weight this offseason presumably because it detracted from his game. Because his elevated play in the latter part of the season and the fact that he seemed to be reacting more quickly (adjusting to NHL speed especially in the POs) are very promising indicators, Sakic and JB should give him full opportunity to grab one of the second line positions including 2C at least PT. I'm one of Jost's defenders but he is due for a breakout this coming season.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

I view Jost as having the ability to get to the right spots on the ice both offensively and defensively. He's got a quick stick and uses it to strip opponents and gain possession. Smart at reading plays and sneaky with his play. There's always a role for a player like that on a team. He's not particularly physically strong and initially I think he bulked up as conventional wisdom would dictate. Then I read he actually wanted to shed some weight this offseason presumably because it detracted from his game. Because his elevated play in the latter part of the season and the fact that he seemed to be reacting more quickly (adjusting to NHL speed especially in the POs) are very promising indicators, Sakic and JB should give him full opportunity to grab one of the second line positions including 2C at least PT. I'm one of Jost's defenders but he is due for a breakout this coming season.

I really think it comes down to experience with Jost. His season at UND you saw the raw talent, but he lacked knowledge of the game to know where to go on the ice at times and it impacted his confidence.

IMO, I think he could hugely benefit from playing with a player like Kadri, someone who has his back on the ice -- both in terms of defensive positioning and the physical aspect of the game. Jost, in a good and bad way, has been so focused on not making mistakes that it has hurt his game. Having a guy like Kadri on his line will help tons.

I hope the addition of Kadri and Bellemare take some of the defensive self-pressure off of Jost and allow him to open his game up.

The top 3 lines will likely get juggled a ton to start the season, but IMO I would put Jost with Kadri on the 2nd line to see how they play off each other to start at the least.

 

[MarkT]

It may be rare, but it's not unheard of...and top 4 prospects tend to be rare-cases more often than the average bear...especially with the dub being weak atm.

So if he's just able to hold his own as the third pairing PMD to start the season, I'm down with platooning him & Graves/Rosen next to Connauton until we hit that 40 game mark when we'd need to decide if he had progressed enough to start his UFA clock or if he should be sent back down.

And just because he's on the Avs doesn't mean he can't still go the WJC...especially if he's only platooning on that third pairing spot instead of owning it, as going to the WJC would let us stretch out the 40 games that he can be on the roster for.

I think it really comes down to whether 3rd pairing minutes in the NHL or top guy minutes in the WHL would help his development more. The other factor is which scenario carries the most risk.

The more I've thought about it the more I think the way to go is to play it by ear, and never hand him a spot. If he plays it's because he's better right now than Connauton, Graves, Barberio etc... If he's not, then you send him down. And once Cole is healthy, he may be sent down regardless because there might not be a spot for him - again unless he's earned one by outplaying someone else on the team. Basically we're actually set up quite well for this year to make him completely earn his spot on the team. That way we're guaranteed to not be rushing him, which usually is a result of a player being gifted a spot/role they simply haven't earned yet. Jost was a prime example of this, and continued to be that until the end of last season.

 

[Thepoolmaster]

I really think it comes down to experience with Jost. His season at UND you saw the raw talent, but he lacked knowledge of the game to know where to go on the ice at times and it impacted his confidence.

IMO, I think he could hugely benefit from playing with a player like Kadri, someone who has his back on the ice -- both in terms of defensive positioning and the physical aspect of the game. Jost, in a good and bad way, has been so focused on not making mistakes that it has hurt his game. Having a guy like Kadri on his line will help tons.

I hope the addition of Kadri and Bellemare take some of the defensive self-pressure off of Jost and allow him to open his game up.

The top 3 lines will likely get juggled a ton to start the season, but IMO I would put Jost with Kadri on the 2nd line to see how they play off each other to start at the least.

Agreed.

Jost had his best spurts during the season playing with Landy (who wouldn't), but it really helps his game out having someone else on his line that is good defensively that frees him up to be a bit more creative in the offensive zone. I would like to see him with Kadri and Rants personally with Burakovsky starting the season with Landy and Mack

On Byram, I just have this feeling the Avs are going to start him in the NHL and he's going to stick. I just don't think Bednar will trust Barbs/Graves more than Byram by Game 9 of the regular season. I wouldn't even be surprised to see him up with EJ on the second pairing pretty quickly given Zadorov is a pretty slow starter (if I am remembering correctly). Though I think EJ would be better served with Zadorov than Byram from a playstyle perspective.

Girard Makar
Byram EJ
Z - Connauton

 

[flyfysher]

Agreed.

Jost had his best spurts during the season playing with Landy (who wouldn't), but it really helps his game out having someone else on his line that is good defensively that frees him up to be a bit more creative in the offensive zone. I would like to see him with Kadri and Rants personally with Burakovsky starting the season with Landy and Mack

On Byram, I just have this feeling the Avs are going to start him in the NHL and he's going to stick. I just don't think Bednar will trust Barbs/Graves more than Byram by Game 9 of the regular season. I wouldn't even be surprised to see him up with EJ on the second pairing pretty quickly given Zadorov is a pretty slow starter (if I am remembering correctly). Though I think EJ would be better served with Zadorov than Byram from a playstyle perspective.

Girard Makar
Byram EJ
Z - Connauton

Zadorov-Johnson would be very tough pairing for opposing lines to face though. Just going to have to wait and see what Byram brings to the table before making any judgments. Having seen videos of Byram, I could envision Johnson being freed to be the puck mover and bringing it into the zone swiftly down the right side and Byram sweeping in from the blue line to take the cross-ice pass at the top of the left circle and snipe top shelf in the corner!

 

[cgf]

I think it really comes down to whether 3rd pairing minutes in the NHL or top guy minutes in the WHL would help his development more. The other factor is which scenario carries the most risk.

The more I've thought about it the more I think the way to go is to play it by ear, and never hand him a spot. If he plays it's because he's better right now than Connauton, Graves, Barberio etc... If he's not, then you send him down. And once Cole is healthy, he may be sent down regardless because there might not be a spot for him - again unless he's earned one by outplaying someone else on the team. Basically we're actually set up quite well for this year to make him completely earn his spot on the team. That way we're guaranteed to not be rushing him, which usually is a result of a player being gifted a spot/role they simply haven't earned yet. Jost was a prime example of this, and continued to be that until the end of last season.

I generally agree; although I'd give him the rotational spot if he's as good as Graves / Barbie / Rosen, not just if he clearly beats them...even if that means rotating him with one of those other puck-movers.

 

[flyfysher]

I generally agree; although I'd give him the rotational spot if he's as good as Graves / Barbie / Rosen, not just if he clearly beats them...even if that means rotating him with one of those other puck-movers.

I know Byram wasn't your first draft choice cgf but JB has to give the kid enough minutes to develop and fully realize his abilities. Sakic didn't merely draft the kid to be a third-liner.