Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XXXIV|Pokecheque Liked The Other Title Better Ed.

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Damn...

Barrie + 4 for Horvat + 10 is getting well received even by Nucks fans. Well except for that one guy who suggested Makar + Jost at minimum...


But yeah that's a really fair trade and it addresses both teams needs quite well, at least to an extent. Would hurt like hell to lose TBoobs but man I would be thrilled to have Horvat behind Mack making a combined 12M for the next 4 years. Macks comparables in the league are making that kind of money alone now.



So let's say HF actually predicts this trade... what do we do next.


We'd then be looking at something along the lines of...

Landy - Mack - Mikko
??? - Horvat - ???
Nieto - Soda - Calvert
JTC - Kerfoot - Jost

Girard - EJ
Zadorov - Makar
Cole - ???


Do we perhaps bring back Nemeth to form a heavy defensive, shut down pairing with Cole?

We'd also still have a tonne of cap space since we'd add no salary in this trade so we could be aggressive to add 2 guys in free agency to really fill out the Top 6 winger spots.

And with picks #10 and #16 maybe target the falling forward at #10(Likely Cozens, Podkolzin, Krebs, Boldy, or Newhook) and then take a Dman or Knight at 16?


All I'll say is if something like that trade happens tonight/tomorrow ot would be a massive trade and the first real stick your nose out risk deal for Sakic yet.

 

[Balthazar]

Having an emotional attachment doesn't have to bleed into your analysis...like it does for some of you...

It usually does, even when in disguise. Remember when that Tampa troll on the main board had a bunch of advanced stats to prove that Rants wasn't a top 150 player in the NHL? Confirmation biais is strong and stats are to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

 

[S3rkie]

It's working with Cole.

Is it though? A lot of people here wanted to jetisan him into the sun for the majority of they year.

 

[sethro109]

How can it be a position of power if it becomes a position of weakness with his removal

Weakness? With EJ and Makar on the right side on I don't understand how it will be a weakness. Our point production from the blue line will go down, but we still have a 2 budding offensive defense men in Girard and Makar that are younger and currently cost controlled. Having Barrie for a cup run would be nice, but I doubt we have a cup run with MacK, Landy, and Rants being our only real top 6 players. Most of the big name FA's are already gone. Bread man looks Florida bound and I honestly doubt Duchene is willing to come back here (And if he was that's a whole 'nother can of worms). Just look what Kevin freakin one time 50 point getter Hayes got before he even got on the open market. We need good cost controlled players. Barrie will be a good point producer, but he wont be cost controlled for very long.

 

[cgf]

It's working with Cole.

On the third pairing...

It worked with Hejda for a little bit too before overplaying him ran through what little he had left in his tank ASAP...and it worked with Beauch for 3/4ths of a season...

Replacing our best blueliner with a third pairing guy isn't the way to keep the first advantage we've held on the blueline since Ray, Blake & Footer where anchoring that b****

 

[Foppberg]

Man, this Barrie talk has completely destroyed my productivity.
I can't wait to not be productive tomorrow too.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Man, this Barrie talk has completely destroyed my productivity.
I can't wait to not be productive tomorrow too.

Tomorrow is gonna drag on like crazy. Already gonna be a slow day at work for me plus waiting for the draft and all these Barrie rumors.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Man, this Barrie talk has completely destroyed my productivity.
I can't wait to not be productive tomorrow too.

Ugh man am I ever regretting not taking tomorrow off.

 

[Foppberg]

Ugh man am I ever regretting not taking tomorrow off.

I might end up blocking HF from all my browsers + phone until like an hour before the draft

 

[cgf]

It usually does, even when in disguise. Remember when that Tampa troll on the main board had a bunch of advanced stats to prove that Rants wasn't a top 150 player in the NHL? Confirmation biais is strong and stats are to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

That's why you've gotta be conscious of your own biases & what's most tripped you up in the past...aka the whole reason we have a draft thread to discuss what we're seeing differently from others to try & identify where we're missing something or where we're spotting something that others are missing.

It's like sexing chicks, the only way to learn is to keep doing it & recording your results until you're accurate enough to go pro.


PS - That kid was just a kid who didn't yet know what his own blindspots were...he's on a similar crusade atm, with Svech's unreal xG #s; which is pretty funny even though I did/do adore Svech.

 

[Balthazar]

I might end up blocking HF from all my browsers + phone until like an hour before the draft

You probably won't have to as it will be down as usual.

 

[UncleRisto]

I think we lose on value with the pick swap. Contract status be damned.

Why? I think #10 falls out of a tier.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

That first sip of beer tomorrow evening after work and before the draft is going to be amazing wow.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

On the third pairing...

It worked with Hejda for a little bit too before overplaying him ran through what little he had left in his tank ASAP...and it worked with Beauch for 3/4ths of a season...

Replacing our best blueliner with a third pairing guy isn't the way to keep the first advantage we've held on the blueline since Ray, Blake & Footer where anchoring that b****

You're misunderstanding my overall point. Makar would be the one to step into Barrie's role. Cole is on the books for two more years, it's not crippling by any means.

Of course, our defence would be worse without Barrie, but I don't think it would destroy it to the point where you don't consider adding an excellent number 2 centre in Horvat.

 

[cgf]

Weakness? With EJ and Makar on the right side on I don't understand how it will be a weakness. Our point production from the blue line will go down, but we still have a 2 budding offensive defense men in Girard and Makar that are younger and currently cost controlled. Having Barrie for a cup run would be nice, but I doubt we have a cup run with MacK, Landy, and Rants being our only real top 6 players. Most of the big name FA's are already gone. Bread man looks Florida bound and I honestly doubt Duchene is willing to come back here (And if he was that's a whole 'nother can of worms). Just look what Kevin freakin one time 50 point getter Hayes got before he even got on the open market. We need good cost controlled players. Barrie will be a good point producer, but he wont be cost controlled for very long.

We just don't see the game the same way if you're content with banking on a rookie & this version of EJ to anchor a contending top 4.

If you want to go into greater depth, I can do so after my test that starts in 3 hours.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Damn...

Barrie + 4 for Horvat + 10 is getting well received even by Nucks fans. Well except for that one guy who suggested Makar + Jost at minimum...


But yeah that's a really fair trade and it addresses both teams needs quite well, at least to an extent. Would hurt like hell to lose TBoobs but man I would be thrilled to have Horvat behind Mack making a combined 12M for the next 4 years. Macks comparables in the league are making that kind of money alone now.



So let's say HF actually predicts this trade... what do we do next.


We'd then be looking at something along the lines of...

Landy - Mack - Mikko
??? - Horvat - ???
Nieto - Soda - Calvert
JTC - Kerfoot - Jost

Girard - EJ
Zadorov - Makar
Cole - ???


Do we perhaps bring back Nemeth to form a heavy defensive, shut down pairing with Cole?

We'd also still have a tonne of cap space since we'd add no salary in this trade so we could be aggressive to add 2 guys in free agency to really fill out the Top 6 winger spots.

And with picks #10 and #16 maybe target the falling forward at #10(Likely Cozens, Podkolzin, Krebs, Boldy, or Newhook) and then take a Dman or Knight at 16?


All I'll say is if something like that trade happens tonight/tomorrow ot would be a massive trade and the first real stick your nose out risk deal for Sakic yet.

I’d be hoping Cozens dropped to 10 so bad in this scenario. Leaving the draft with Horvat, Cozens, Seider/Soderstrom/Knight would be incredible.

 

[UncleRisto]

That first sip of beer tomorrow evening after work and before the draft is going to be amazing wow.

I wish it wasn't 3 AM.

 

[Vaslof]

We can't afford to lose both Barrie and #4. No to the pick swap from me.

 

[chet1926]

The only way Barrie gets moved is it we take Byram at 4.

We won't be packaging 4+Barrie to get Horvat and 10.

Any deal of Barrie is contingent on us nabbing Byram.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I wish it wasn't 3 AM.

Yeah, the last sip of beer probably wouldn't have the same effect as the first sip

 

[Balthazar]

Do we perhaps bring back Nemeth to form a heavy defensive, shut down pairing with Cole?

I think there's a chance we end up with Zaitsev as a cap dump in another Toronto trade.

In your scenario it's reasonable to believe that the production loss from Barrie would be outweighted by the addition of Makar on the blue line + Horvat replacing whoever as our 2C.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Not a chance Sakic is trading down from 4 in a Barrie trade.

 

[cgf]

You're misunderstanding my overall point. Makar would be the one to step into Barrie's role. Cole is on the books for two more years, it's not crippling by any means.

Of course, our defence would be worse without Barrie, but I don't think it would destroy it to the point where you don't consider adding an excellent number 2 centre in Horvat.

But our blueline only became an advantage with Barrie + Makar. So you're expecting 1 offseason to make Cale capable of not just replicating his own strong start, even after teams start to adapt to him, but also taking over the responsibilities of our #1 blueliner. I dunno if even prime-Cale will be a safe bet to give us what we got out of him+Barrie this postseason...much less rookie-Cale...

Nevermind how increasing EJ's workload would only increase the chances of last season's cliff-dive to accelerate. I was nervous enough with EJ PK-specialist'ing it up with Cole on the third pairing.

Whereas turning our forward core into an advantage only requires a capable 2nd line that can just hold par against other 2nd lines. Our top line gives us an advantage in every match and if Jost / Soda / Jimmothy / etc. where in the bottom 6...where they belong...our bottom 6 would give us an advantage as well.

So moving our best blueliner to fill a hole that we just need patched adequately, while taking away the advantage we currently enjoy on the blueline, makes little sense to me.

 

[BrickNHL]

Re-sign Patrik Nemeth ASAP if they're trading Barrie.

@21

 

[TheForsbergShow]

Man now you guys have me worrying that when its our turn to pick at #4 we will have Gary come up and announce that we have a trade.