Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XXXIV|Pokecheque Liked The Other Title Better Ed.

[RockyMtnRedhawk]

I'm not one of the "trade Barrie" folks, but if we can get Horvat in the deal, sign me up.

 

[Balthazar]

Then say that. Don’t make up motivations for them that happen to let you ignore their perspective without blinking an eye

I'll not argue with someone who's emotionally involved, that's all. That doesn't mean that they are wrong or that I'm better, it's just that I know in advance that I can't win.
I'm old enough to pick my battles.

 

[sethro109]

If we'd have to add to Tyson to get a worse C than he is a blueliner; then the decision to not trade him unless he wants out, should be clear.

Trading from a position of power for one of need is a perfectly acceptable reason to trade him. Not to mention the extra cap space could be used to even the value.

 

[Foppberg]

Not that I agree with calling Barrie a mid-pairing defender, but Balthazar is correct when he says that Tyson is a specialized defender who needs high PP time and offencive zone starts majority of the time. I am also curious and wonder how many of you lot will join Brick as Canuck fans if we trade Barrie to them.

Saying anything negative about Barrie is considered such a sin on this board, it's actually more funny to read than irritating.

Part of me thinks guys like Patagonia etc that are on the 'trade Barrie' train just say that stuff because of how easily a lot of people here lose their shit over it

 

[Echo Roku]

I'll not argue with someone who's emotionally involved, that's all. That doesn't mean that they are wrong or that I'm better, it's just that I know in advance that I can't win.
I'm old enough to pick my battles.

Yeah, that’s making up motivations for others to dismiss opinions you don’t agree with

If you don’t believe the argument will go anywhere, then just say that. Everything extra just sounds like it’s for your own sake, imo

 

[Balthazar]

Yeah, that’s making up motivations for others to dismiss opinions you don’t agree with

"Making up motivations"
Newsflash: Sports fans (including me) are biased.

 

[AvsGuy]

Barrie is like Zadorov in the sense that he is flawed but adds a dynamic ability from the backend. Barrie is a clutch scorer and offense generator - I’ll take his brain farts because he is by far a net positive player.

 

[flyfysher]

Part of me thinks guys like Patagonia etc that are on the 'trade Barrie' train just say that stuff because of how easily a lot of people here lose their **** over it

People ******* about how Duchene reacted to being the subject of trade talk. Mini-Duchene clones. Shouldn't be talking about trading their man, Barrie!

 

[S E P H]

Part of me thinks guys like Patagonia etc that are on the 'trade Barrie' train just say that stuff because of how easily a lot of people here lose their **** over it

Well, I do believe that some of the anti-Barrie brigade truly believe what they write such as Owen Nolan and Patagonia, but since it is such a predictable cycle on repeat that eventually the same blokes could potentially use it as a troll weapon.

I just didn't know that Bunker Barrie was such a strategic location. I mean he's damn good, but to call him top-pairing, risk-free (paraphrasing), or top OFD (paraphrasing) is sort of bizarre that I find myself agreeing more with the anti-crowd than the pro-crowd sadly. He's as good as his pros are outweighing his cons type of player in the entire NHL for me personally - and that weight bar cycles with his form.

 

[CoachBadkitten]

Yeah, that end of season stretch was some of the best hockey Barrie has ever played. Him and Grubauer the two main reasons we bounced back and made the playoffs. Risking losing that is dangerous, even if you're really worried about re-signing him. Gotta be a hockey trade.

 

[lonelybadger]

Maybe Makar told Sakic he is only signing for the playoffs if he gets PP1 all year long.....

 

[UncleRisto]

I don't know if some people realize that Barrie's offensive numbers don't just come from usage. His contribution will be sorely missed and it won't be replaced by just Makar, because the team needs to move forward and add to what we have, not just replace players.

Now, that said, if Sakic is actually able to make a move for that elusive high level 2C and not get hosed in the process it's another glaring need filled, but then I don't think he can stand pat with the defense. At least if a full year of Makar is the only addition.

The defensive group with Barrie out doesn't really look that impressive and trusting Zadorov and Girard to again take "next steps" is asking for trouble, even if you do trust Makar to have a big role early.

Now, I'm not saying Barrie is irreplaceable just that if we were first looking for forward help, get that forward and trade a top-4 defenseman in the process, well now we need a top-4 defenseman. And I don't mean from within.

 

[Ivan13]

I'll not argue with someone who's emotionally involved, that's all. That doesn't mean that they are wrong or that I'm better, it's just that I know in advance that I can't win.
I'm old enough to pick my battles.

I love how people who post actual data (Henchy, CE and I) are emotionally involved yet you who posted absolutely nothing but your own opinion act all high and mighty. Yes I like Barrie because I see a good player and I want the Avalanche to keep its beat players for once. But me holding him in high regard is backed up by countless data driven examples I posted over the years here.

But do carry on with the high horse spiel.

 

[AvsRobin]

This is a tough situation. I hate the idea of going into the season with TB unsigned.

I get that it's something to think of with Makar on the rise and EJ signed for life. I would love to have all three. Barrie is our best one. But he turns 28 in july and an extension could be 6-8 years. Now we have no idea what he would demand, so that makes it even harder from our standpoint.

I don't think the Trouba trade helped us. Barrie might have a longer list of teams he is willing to sign for, but I don't think any GM is going to pay double what his GM-buddy paid for Trouba. Makes them feel scammed.

A few people have told me that Sakic has shown before he will wait untill he gets the right deal bla bla, but the clock is ticking on this one in another way than it did with Duchene who had two years left.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Well, I do believe that some of the anti-Barrie brigade truly believe what they write such as Owen Nolan and Patagonia, but since it is such a predictable cycle on repeat that eventually the same blokes could potentially use it as a troll weapon.

I just didn't know that Bunker Barrie was such a strategic location. I mean he's damn good, but to call him top-pairing, risk-free (paraphrasing), or top OFD (paraphrasing) is sort of bizarre that I find myself agreeing more with the anti-crowd than the pro-crowd sadly. He's as good as his pros are outweighing his cons type of player in the entire NHL for me personally - and that weight bar cycles with his form.

Risk-free(paraphrased)?

We’re gonna start making things up now?
Where on earth have you seen a pro-Barrie guy say risk-free(paraphrased)? Honestly.

Pretty much every argument about his risk is that yes, he’s risky, but his positive risk outweighs his negative risk.

 

[cgf]

You can debate the value of Tyson Barrie, but what it comes down to, is are the Avalanche better with Barrie or Horvat?

To me, that answer is clear.

If you need to send a pick, and a prospect back to Vancouver to get it done, I would do it. As long as it's not 4th overall.

Agreed...

 

[Echo Roku]

"Making up motivations"
Newsflash: Sports fans (including me) are biased.

So you’re claiming you yourself to be too emotionally invested to be reasoned with about anything to do with the team?

Of course you’re not.

It’s just them that’s the problem. They have [insert motivation that makes them just ignore the facts you think makes your take better or objective]. You [insert arbitrary reason you can assume it for them but not yourself].

That’s the point. You said you were old enough to pick your battles. I shouldn’t have to explain this.

As you’ve actively demonstrated interest in just doubling down on doing that, I’m going to go ahead and walk away.

 

[cgf]

Trading from a position of power for one of need is a perfectly acceptable reason to trade him. Not to mention the extra cap space could be used to even the value.

How can it be a position of power if it becomes a position of weakness with his removal

 

[Foppberg]

I love how people who post actual data (Henchy, CE and I) are emotionally involved yet you who posted absolutely nothing but your own opinion act all high and mighty. Yes I like Barrie because I see a good player and I want the Avalanche to keep its beat players for once. But me holding him in high regard is backed up by countless data driven examples I posted over the years here.

But do carry on with the high horse spiel.

How is that high and mighty? The guy just said it's not worth debating about for him, which it isn't. The people that are pro Barrie/anti Barrie haven't changed any opinions, everyone just digs their heels in deeper and deeper.

 

[lonelybadger]

Agreed...

BUT WHAT IS THE ANSWER!!!!

 

[S E P H]

I don't know if some people realize that Barrie's offensive numbers don't just come from usage. His contribution will be sorely missed and it won't be replaced by just Makar, because the team needs to move forward and add to what we have, not just replace players.

Now, that said, if Sakic is actually able to make a move for that elusive high level 2C and not get hosed in the process it's another glaring need filled, but then I don't think he can't stand pat with the defense. At least if a full year of Makar is the only addition.

The defensive group with Barrie out doesn't really look that impressive and trusting Zadorov and Girard to again take "next steps" is asking for trouble, even if you do trust Makar to have a big role early.

Now, I'm not saying Barrie is irreplaceable just that if we were first looking for forward help, get that forward and trade a top-4 defenseman in the process, well now we need a top-4 defenseman. And I don't mean from within.

This might all be true, but Sakic might also be thinking ahead and realising that Barrie will demand 8 or so million and might realistically get that with a potential NTC built in as well. This could potentially affect the expansion draft and our teams' cap structure in the future as Kento says we're as good as MacKinnon is still on his 6 million dollar paywage. If we're talking about our core; which would include MacK, Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar, and Barrie who is the most likely to be traded from that? Of course Avs can conduct smarter moves like getting rid of EJ, but I highly doubt they will ask him for his list of teams this offseason. They see him as commodity since they have him for next handful of years on a cost-controlled contract. Barrie is a wildcard, the pro-Barrie's hate to hear that, but he demanded arbitration with the Avs and that is the history we have of him.

But you also gotta remember that if they trade Barrie, it is because they drafted Byram. Now I highly doubt that Byram will ever be as good as Barrie is producing secondary assists , but you can do a lot worse when it comes to drafting defenders. Byram will definitely develop into a better two-way lad compared to Barrie who I still consider a specialized offencive-defender. Sure not all his points came from PP time and offencive zone starts, but a good deal have.

 

[milehigh11]

Barrie is like Zadorov in the sense that he is flawed but adds a dynamic ability from the backend. Barrie is a clutch scorer and offense generator - I’ll take his brain farts because he is by far a net positive player.

We saw him go for 8 points in 4 games in the playoffs then 0 points in the other 8 games. Clutch no. Streaky yes. So "clutch" he went pointless our last 5 playoff games

 

[Balthazar]

So you’re claiming you yourself to be too emotionally invested to be reasoned with about anything to do with the team?

Of course you’re not..

If you want to argue about Mack then yeah, I am. To me he's the 2nd best player in the world and even if you bring hand picked stats to prove me wrong I'll still be right.

Want to argue about Draisaitl with @cgf ? Good luck.

It's everyone. Stop it.

 

[UncleRisto]

This might all be true, but Sakic might also be thinking ahead and realising that Barrie will demand 8 or so million and might realistically get that with a potential NTC built in as well. This could potentially affect the expansion draft and our teams' cap structure in the future as Kento says we're as good as MacKinnon is still on his 6 million dollar paywage. If we're talking about our core; which would include MacK, Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar, and Barrie who is the most likely to be traded from that? Of course Avs can conduct smarter moves like getting rid of EJ, but I highly doubt they will ask him for his list of teams this offseason. They see him as commodity since they have him for next handful of years on a cost-controlled contract. Barrie is a wildcard, the pro-Barrie's hate to hear that, but he demanded arbitration with the Avs and that is the history we have of him.

But you also gotta remember that if they trade Barrie, it is because they drafted Byram. Now I highly doubt that Byram will ever be as good as Barrie is producing secondary assists , but you can do a lot worse when it comes to drafting defenders. Byram will definitely develop into a better two-way lad compared to Barrie who I still consider a specialized offencive-defender.

Well my whole point wasn't that you have to keep Barrie, it's that you can't open a hole on a team hoping to compete, if you do that.

 

[lonelybadger]

If you want to argue about Mack then yeah, I am.

Want to argue about Draisaitl with @cgf ? Good luck.

It's everyone. Stop it.

Want to argue with me about the joy trades? LETS DO THIS!

I have contribute literally nothing of value on these boards for about 2 years now.....