Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XXV|Landeskog: Maanmetsä???

[PAZ]

If Joe can pull off a Zucker for Jost trade that would be huge.

 

[Avsboy]

Honestly, the Kerfoot-Duchene-Yakupov line was a real success chemistry wise, at least for a little bit. Yak never played the same after Duchene left.

Their styles complement each other well. Duchene hogs the puck and attracts people, Yakupov can sneak into a scoring spot, and Kerfoot just has to bring the puck up the ice and stay out of the way in the offensive zone.

 

[Foppa2118]

The Avs' penalty problems are due more to Bednar and his system.

Kassian is not somebody I'd want. But Paquette isn't going to make it worse here. Either way, they are not the penalty problem and wouldn't be long-term. Bednar's system is the real problem there.

I bring this up all the time now, but Bednar's teams have almost always been middle of the pack in PIMs, except for one AHL year, and this season.

I'm not a big Bednar fan, but the penalty problems are specific to this team, not Bednar. Even more so than the slower team Bednar had play the same system in 2016-17.

2007-08 Stingrays - 21st in PIMS
2008-09 Stingrays - 15th in PIMS
2010-11 Rivermen - 3rd in PIMS
2011-12 Rivermen - 21st in PIMS
2014-15 Falcons - 12th in PIMS
2015-16 Monsters - 10th in PIMS
2016-17 Avalanche - 14th in PIMS
2017-18 Avalanche - 12th in PIMS
2018-19 Avalanche - 2nd in PIMS

Much of the change can be attributed to the addition of Cole. He's already got 113 PIMs with 7 major penalties. Mikko also has 20 more PIMs as well. Outside of that, there's small difference plus and minus.

In fact EJ has almost cut his PIMS/gm in half. MacKinnon has almost cut his in half as well. Zadorov has cut down his PIMS a fair bit also.

The difference is mostly the addition of Cole.

 

[dahrougem2]

**** Alexander Kerfoot

 

[DanglesFromDuchene]

I bring this up all the time now, but Bednar's teams have almost always been middle of the pack in PIMs, except for one AHL year, and this season.

I'm not a big Bednar fan, but the penalty problems are specific to this team, not Bednar. Even more so than the slower team Bednar had play the same system in 2016-17.

2007-08 Stingrays - 21st in PIMS
2008-09 Stingrays - 15th in PIMS
2010-11 Rivermen - 3rd in PIMS
2011-12 Rivermen - 21st in PIMS
2014-15 Falcons - 12th in PIMS
2015-16 Monsters - 10th in PIMS
2016-17 Avalanche - 14th in PIMS
2017-18 Avalanche - 12th in PIMS
2018-19 Avalanche - 2nd in PIMS

Much of the change can be attributed to the addition of Cole. He's already got 113 PIMs with 7 major penalties. Mikko also has 20 more PIMs as well. Outside of that, there's small difference plus and minus.

In fact EJ has almost cut his PIMS/gm in half. MacKinnon has almost cut his in half as well. Zadorov has cut down his PIMS a fair bit also.

The difference is mostly the addition of Cole.

I was curious at how many minor penalties we have been taking under Bednar so I looked:
2016-17: 11th
2017-18: 8th
2018-19: 4th

Johnson:
14-15: 9 in 47 GP (0.19)
15-16: 15 in 73 GP (0.20)
16-17: 2 in 46GP (0.04)
17-18: 19 in 62 GP (0.31)
18-19: 9 in 71 GP (0.13)

MacKinnon:
14-15: 12 in 54 GP (0.22)
15-16: 9 in 72 GP (0.12)
16-17: 8 in 82 GP (0.10)
17-18: 15 in 74 GP (0.20)
18-19: 15 in 73 GP (0.20)

Zadorov:
15-16: 6 in 22 GP (0.27)
16-17: 28 in 56 GP (0.50)
17-18: 39 in 77 GP (0.51)
18-19: 28 in 61 GP (0.46)

 

[Foppa2118]

I was curious at how many minor penalties we have been taking under Bednar so I looked:
2016-17: 11th
2017-18: 8th
2018-19: 4th

Johnson:
14-15: 9 in 47 GP (0.19)
15-16: 15 in 73 GP (0.20)
16-17: 2 in 46GP (0.04)
17-18: 19 in 62 GP (0.31)
18-19: 9 in 71 GP (0.13)

MacKinnon:
14-15: 12 in 54 GP (0.22)
15-16: 9 in 72 GP (0.12)
16-17: 8 in 82 GP (0.10)
17-18: 15 in 74 GP (0.20)
18-19: 15 in 73 GP (0.20)

Zadorov:
15-16: 6 in 22 GP (0.27)
16-17: 28 in 56 GP (0.50)
17-18: 39 in 77 GP (0.51)
18-19: 28 in 61 GP (0.46)

Nice, but that 2017-18 number is a little misleading. They're listed in 10th on NHL.com and tied with three other teams, as well as within one penalty of 11th. They're also in 5th this year, maybe that changed since you looked.

Nate had a couple fights and a game misconduct last year. That's the big difference with him.

Here's a further dive into minor penalties that will hopefully illustrate that the penalties this year are more of an isolated situation than a sign of Bednar's teams always having penalty troubles like it's been asserted.


2018-19
5th in total minor penalties - 3.589 PIMS/gm

2017-18
10th in total minor penalties (tied with 3 teams) - 3.536 PIMS/gm

2016-17
11th in total minor penalties (tied with one team) - 3.548 PIMS/gm


Now, just to put how small a change in total minors that is in perspective, here's the difference this year between the Avs at 5th in minors and NYR in 6th.


2018-19 Avs
5th in total minor penalties - 3.589 PIMS/gm

2018-19 Rangers
6th in total minor penalties - 3.465 PIMS/gm


The difference between the 5th place and 6th place teams in minor penalties is a fair bit larger than the difference between the Avs as a middle of the pack type team in minors, and this year. Or on the outskirts of the upper third in the league if you want to characterize it that way.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?repor...&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=penaltiesMinor

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Kerfoot - JTC and I believe Andrighetto was the 3rd member of that line caused havoc for the Preds in the playoffs last year.

I’m not positive if it was Ghetto or not but I just remember seeing the line on paper and expected them to get stomped but they continuously surprised me.

 

[Avs71]

Kerfoot wouldn’t be as much as a problem if the Avs didn’t also have Dries, Andrighetto, Compher, Jost, Nieto, Bourque, Agozzino, and now Brassard. That is just way too many undersized, underskilled forwards. If he was centering two big wingers it might be a different story, but he will always be behind Jost and Compher in value to the organization.

Just as a side remark, it is ridiculous that Jost is still 20. Kerfoot is 4 years older than him, and only marginally better right now.

 

[avsfan09]

If Joe can pull off a Zucker for Jost trade that would be huge.

I wish people would be a little more patient with Jost.

 

[Foppberg]

I wish people would be a little more patient with Jost.

Zucker is a level of player we wish Jost could become.

 

[ABasin]

I wish people would be a little more patient with Jost.

Me too. I believe Jost will become a solid NHL player. Perhaps not worthy of a #10 overall pick, but a good NHLer nonetheless.

That said, Zucker is far superior.

 

[avsfan09]

is a level of player we wish Jost could become.

He had one season over 50 points. He's a good player but I'm higher on Jost than most. I think alot of people just have written him off too soon.

 

[avsfan09]

Me too. I believe Jost will become a solid NHL player. Perhaps not worthy of a #10 overall pick, but a good NHLer nonetheless.

That said, Zucker is far superior.

At the moment yes. But I think we could get him for a much better deal. And if we can't I'd strongly prefer keeping Jost.

 

[Soedy]

I wish people would be a little more patient with Jost.

I wished our FO would have been more patient with him. Imagine, he would see NHL ice for the first time right now while developing in the AHL till now. Would be a better player I guess.

 

[mapletreemarty]

I was curious at how many minor penalties we have been taking under Bednar so I looked:
2016-17: 11th
2017-18: 8th
2018-19: 4th

Johnson:
14-15: 9 in 47 GP (0.19)
15-16: 15 in 73 GP (0.20)
16-17: 2 in 46GP (0.04)
17-18: 19 in 62 GP (0.31)
18-19: 9 in 71 GP (0.13)

MacKinnon:
14-15: 12 in 54 GP (0.22)
15-16: 9 in 72 GP (0.12)
16-17: 8 in 82 GP (0.10)
17-18: 15 in 74 GP (0.20)
18-19: 15 in 73 GP (0.20)

Zadorov:
15-16: 6 in 22 GP (0.27)
16-17: 28 in 56 GP (0.50)
17-18: 39 in 77 GP (0.51)
18-19: 28 in 61 GP (0.46)

Rantanen is really falling in line with the team trend ... 22, 34, 54 PIMs in 2016-17, 17-18, and this season respectively.

 

[AegonLeConqueror]

Rantanen is really falling in line with the team trend ... 22, 34, 54 PIMs in 2016-17, 17-18, and this season respectively.

Avs got a goon on their hands

 

[henchman21]

I was curious at how many minor penalties we have been taking under Bednar so I looked:

Go further back with Bednar's history too...

 

[mapletreemarty]

Me too. I believe Jost will become a solid NHL player. Perhaps not worthy of a #10 overall pick, but a good NHLer nonetheless.

That said, Zucker is far superior.

Zucker is 6 years older, Jost just turned 21. When Zucker was 20, turning 21 during the season he had 4 goals, 5 pts. in 20 games in the NHL, and 50 pts. in 55 games in the AHL. Followed that up with 4g, 1a in 21 gp in the NHL and 13 pts in 22gp in the AHL. He hit 20 goals in his 2014-15 season which he started at 22.75 yrs old. If you are looking at a similar path for Jost that would technically give him until the 2020-21 season to hit the same mark. The biggest f*** up with Jost is that he should have spent all of last year down in the A just like Rantanen did his first season.... 1 yr of college hockey at 18 years old does not equal 1 year of pro hockey at the AHL level.

Have the Avs hindered his development? Avsolutely, but is he a lost cause??? I don't think so.. he's shown some glimpses... it's like playing Cranium and if you get the first question right you get to go on the fast track as opposed to getting it wrong and having to take the slow track. Avs and Jost got it wrong so he's on the slow track but hopefully he still develops into a useful top 6 forward in the NHL.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Defensive Liability:

- Highest scoring Avalanche defenseman of all-time(299 points, Liles 2nd with 276)

- First Avalanche defenseman to have 5 seasons of 10 or more goals(Blake, Ozolinsh, Likes had 4)

- 1 goal away from tying Ozolinsh for career Avs goals by a defenseman(Ozo 72, DL 71)

- Since becoming an NHL regular in 2013/14, he ranks 9th in the league in defensemen points

- Since the lockout, DL ranks 5th in the league in defensemen points

So... hopefully, Sakic can avoid signing this liability to an extension and is able to return a forward that scores less than him. We can only hope there’s a sucker out there.

 

[milehigh11]

I would only trade Jost if he was part of a bigger package that was bringing back a top 6 young player with term that is younger than 25. other than that let the kid develop

 

[Meeqs]

If Ferland is a mini Landeskog why would we even want him? I've been told Landeskog is a terrible captain.

I'd want a mini Landeskog if he came with a Mini Landeskog Cap hit, but I've never been for paying the cost of a Tesla to get a Honda civic

 

[Meeqs]

If Joe can pull off a Zucker for Jost trade that would be huge.

I don't see Zucker being moved in the division but you never know. The rumored price at the TDL from CGY was Frolik +1st and the Avs don't really have similar pieces.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Zucker is 6 years older, Jost just turned 21. When Zucker was 20, turning 21 during the season he had 4 goals, 5 pts. in 20 games in the NHL, and 50 pts. in 55 games in the AHL. Followed that up with 4g, 1a in 21 gp in the NHL and 13 pts in 22gp in the AHL. He hit 20 goals in his 2014-15 season which he started at 22.75 yrs old. If you are looking at a similar path for Jost that would technically give him until the 2020-21 season to hit the same mark. The biggest **** up with Jost is that he should have spent all of last year down in the A just like Rantanen did his first season.... 1 yr of college hockey at 18 years old does not equal 1 year of pro hockey at the AHL level.

Have the Avs hindered his development? Avsolutely, but is he a lost cause??? I don't think so.. he's shown some glimpses... it's like playing Cranium and if you get the first question right you get to go on the fast track as opposed to getting it wrong and having to take the slow track. Avs and Jost got it wrong so he's on the slow track but hopefully he still develops into a useful top 6 forward in the NHL.

I think the issue everyone has is that Jost doesn’t have many skills conducive to being very effective NHL player. Or the skills he does have are therefore effected by his lack of skating ability and size.

 

[avsfan09]

I think the issue everyone has is that Jost doesn’t have many skills conducive to being very effective NHL player. Or the skills he does have are therefore effected by his lack of skating ability and size.

The only real knock I see is his acceleration. Him not having skills conducive to being a good NHL player is just flat out wrong IMO. I guess we'll see but I think it comes from too high of expectations being put on him.

 

[The Abusement Park]

The only real knock I see is his acceleration. Him not having skills conducive to being a good NHL player is just flat out wrong IMO. I guess we'll see but I think it comes from too high of expectations being put on him.

I mean he definitely has some. But most of his strengths are(as I said in my post) nullified by his lack of size and skating ability.