Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XXIV|Planning for MacK Leaving

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Pokecheque

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This team has had rampant goaltending issues, horrid depth, key defensemen who have struggled for a very large chunk of the season, injuries to some key personnel, special teams failures, and taken too many penalties, but yes, let's talk about the guy who blew his career totals out of the water and despite missing the final stretch of the season still sits tied for 1st in the league with game-winning goals.

Yeah...HE'S the problem.
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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Yeah, but they’re right there on the bubble.

See, I don’t really believe there’s all that much difference between missing the playoffs by a few points and squeaking in. I know there are some strong feelings regarding this in here, and I’ve purposefully stayed out of that debate, and don’t wish to restart it here. Suffice it to say, the team is pretty mediocre either way, IMO. Making the playoffs this season should not be the single barometer, because it can very easily be a smokescreen.

They made the playoffs in 2010, a lot of good that did them for the three years following.

They made the playoffs in 2014, a lot of good that did them for the three years following.

They made the playoffs last year, a lot of good that did them this year.

Again, I believe Bednar has his faults. But that’s secondary to the elephant in the room: the team does not have enough talented hockey players on it. That’s the big problem, not the coach. And that’s due to the years of s****y drafting.

I actually totally agree. There's really not that much that separates most of the bubble teams. That's kinda what I've been getting at.

The difference is the enthusiasm to win. To find ways to play well consistently. Find ways to come back, or find ways to win in OT, or find ways to not give up leads and points. Arizona has found those ways and Chicago has been as well. The Avs have been finding ways to lose.

If they don't make the playoffs, it will be for lots of reasons (goaltending, coaching, depth at forward, young D men, Landy's injury) but they still could have made the playoffs despite all of that. The reason they'll miss is because they found ways to lose down the stretch instead of finding ways to win.
 

cgf

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I'd run those pairings too, but Z's inconsistency isn't ever going to give a coach enough confidence to roll with that all the time and that will keep him down the lineup until the team needs him more. Coaches are naturally conservative and would rather know what they are getting game to game and shift to shift at the expense of a bit more talent. That is why you see the Coles and Calverts of the world consistently overplayed. Coaches know what they are getting.

I hate NHL coaches so much, so conservative & so bad at trying to pound round pegs into square holes. The obvious solution to that problem is to roll with those pairings as our base & slide Zads down when he's out of it...but no, god forbid an NHL coach think about the way he's using his inconsistent players to get the most out of them. You play it safe & make sure that they are squandered!
 
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AegonLeConqueror

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This team has had rampant goaltending issues, horrid depth, key defensemen who have struggled for a very large chunk of the season, injuries to some key personnel, special teams failures, and taken too many penalties, but yes, let's talk about the guy who blew his career totals out of the water and despite missing the final stretch of the season still sits tied for 1st in the league with game-winning goals.

Yeah...HE'S the problem.
Well duh...Landeskog doesn't play goalie, can't play 60 mins/game, didn't trade our AHL-caliber players, and isn't Wayne Gretzky therefore his leadership qualities are garbage and he needs to be traded before this team learns what it means to be captained by a winner.
 

henchman21

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I hate NHL coaches so much, so conservative & so bad at trying to pound round pegs into square holes. The obvious solution to that problem is to roll with those pairings as our base & slide Zads down when he's out of it...but no, god forbid an NHL coach think about the way he's using his inconsistent players to get the most out of them. You play it safe & make sure that they are squandered!

Not going to disagree with your mindset, since I share it... it is just the reality of it.
 

Pokecheque

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I personally think they'd learn more by making the postseason than they would by not making it.

What kills me is that they KNOW they're a bubble team. They KNOW every little thing could make a difference as to whether they make it or not, and they know they were starting to right the ship right before the deadline, and made a move to try and bolster the offense...but then they proceeded to take away some of that depth and send it back down to the farm club. And what do you know...they started losing again. Whatever obligation or underwritten promises they made to Eagles ownership may very well cost them a playoff berth, and to me that's unacceptable. They could've fulfilled both obligations if they had just used a little more imagination.
 
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cgf

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Not going to disagree with your mindset, since I share it... it is just the reality of it.

I hate being reminded of how small & insular the NHL is. It's so much nicer to pretend that it's like world football, where innovation & new solutions are pursued, not actively discouraged...*sigh*
 
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cgf

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I personally think they'd learn more by making the postseason than they would by not making it.

What kills me is that they KNOW they're a bubble team. They KNOW every little thing could make a difference as to whether they make it or not, and they know they were starting to right the ship right before the deadline, and made a move to try and bolster the offense...but then they proceeded to take away some of that depth and send it back down to the farm club. And what do you know...they started losing again. Whatever obligation or underwritten promises they made to Eagles ownership may very well cost them a playoff berth, and to me that's unacceptable. They could've fulfilled both obligations if they had just used a little more imagination.

...or shown any foresight & proactivity by doing something to bolster the second line before the season...
 

Bubba Thudd

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I personally think they'd learn more by making the postseason than they would by not making it.

What kills me is that they KNOW they're a bubble team. They KNOW every little thing could make a difference as to whether they make it or not, and they know they were starting to right the ship right before the deadline, and made a move to try and bolster the offense...but then they proceeded to take away some of that depth and send it back down to the farm club. And what do you know...they started losing again. Whatever obligation or underwritten promises they made to Eagles ownership may very well cost them a playoff berth, and to me that's unacceptable. They could've fulfilled both obligations if they had just used a little more imagination.

Our players just aren't creative enough to be more than a bubble team.
Nor is management and coaching.
 
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avsfan09

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You're right no single player has won a cup on their own. But the fact that he was the captain of 2 cup winning teams does earn him the right to say whatever cliche he wants to say. Because he has backed those words up.

When you are using cliches like Landy does and you've never won anything, they are meaningless words unless it changes what is going on, on the ice. But his cliches just lead to the same uninspired losing hockey.
What do you expect Landy to do? Go back in time, take over Gm'ing and build a better squad?
 
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Avalanche

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So if I'm understanding that properly all teams that haven't done much for the last while should change their captain...Barkov, Weber, Giroux, Ovechkin (before last year), Getzlaf, Oh and McDavid, etc...

Got it!!!!! What a bunch of losers!!!! Trade them all.

Take all the captains that haven't won jack lately, put their names in a hat and have teams pick out their new captain.

Hold it at the awards show, like the expansion draft.

On another note, and this not at all related to what I just said, but I nominate Gork as our new captain
 

AllAboutAvs

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Take all the captains that haven't won jack lately, put their names in a hat and have teams pick out their new captain.

Hold it at the awards show, like the expansion draft.

On another note, and this not at all related to what I just said, but I nominate Gork as our new captain
But why would I want my team to pick a new captain from one of those guys? We have been told they are not captain material and with them your team will go nowhere.
 

drhiii

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Come on let's be real Landy is the definition of company man. Every loss it the same old same old, cliche responses. Never said he didn't answer questions after a loss, just said that he gives standard we didn't play well enough to win answers.

I'm not worried about Landeskog's stats, you're right, statistically he has done well this year. But I could give two ****s about his stats. I care about wins and losses. And here we are at the end of another Landeskog captained year where we miss the playoffs. Because let's be real playoffs are going to be dumb luck at this point if we happen to qualify.

Do you really think a team captained by Crosby or Toews for example would have gone through a basically 2 month losing streak? Absolutely not, something would have been said and done by those guys to right the ship. Instead we have company man Landy, who looks pretty, is good role model on how to conduct yourself off ice, puts on a good face and can say the right things, but then nothing changes on ice.

I just don't understand the majority of this fan base. Aren't you guys sick and tired of watching the same losing season play out every single year with the same leadership core guys. For me it's getting tiresome watching the same core guys lose every year. At some point, something has to give. Eventually you have to point the finger at the players. Maybe Landy is a good leader, on paper it doesn't look that way since all we do is miss the playoffs, but maybe it's his leadership style that doesn't fit well here. I don't know. All I know is that in his time as captain we have yet to even win one playoff series. Not a single one.

What I said, emphasized. That was my first post in this thread. Watched the Hawks play, and lose last eve. Watched Toews post game. Completely different presentation than anything seen after an Avs loss. Wuz that mean?

Will refer to what chet1926 posted... "Do you really think a team captained by Crosby or Toews for example would have gone through a basically 2 month losing streak?"

And will answer with chet1926 words... "..something would have been said and done by those guys to right the ship. Instead we have company man Landy, who looks pretty, is good role model on how to conduct yourself off ice, puts on a good face and can say the right things, but then nothing changes on ice"

Have to say I agree with just about the entire quote. Hey, a lot of things have been exposed about the Avs this year. A lot of sore subject things. The function of leadership got misconstrued from the get go. No worries. There are a couple folks who got the import. And by the bye.. my OP was hoping Mac could go to a team where he would be exposed to the culture of leadership. Never suggesting anyone was bad by stating that. Mac, and others, are missing not just a culture of wining, but advancing in a culture of strong leadership. I think that is a REAL drag for Mac, and others. Primarily stated what was missing. Management on down. Toews responses to the post game loss spoke volumes. Volumes..
 

drhiii

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It's like the five stages of grief of a non-contending hockey team

1) Our coach is terrible
2) Our captain doesn't have leadership
3) Our GM is trash
4) Lineup decisions are horrendous
5) Acceptance.

Mostly yup. It is not all 100% in 1 thru 5.
I would submit there is a predominance of mediocrity in 1 thru 5.
And when you add it together, it is a pretty dismal result.
 

Pierce Hawthorne

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Will refer to what chet1926 posted... "Do you really think a team captained by Crosby or Toews for example would have gone through a basically 2 month losing streak?"


I mean... Chicago literally went 3-17-3 from October 27th until December 12th. And Pittbsurgh went 2-7-3 from October 30th until November 24th.



Wanna try that again? :facepalm:
 

Foppberg

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Of all the issues plaguing Colorado (drafting, development, the front office’s lack of commitment & direction in those areas, poor free agency signings, unwillingness to sign a successful, experienced coaching staff etc, etc) Landeskogs’ captaincy isn’t a blip on my radar.
Yup.. Only a moron would lay the blame at Landys feet. How about all the other things that we severely lack in? Both on and off the ice? He's part of the solution, not the problem. Isn't his fault that everything else has been shit.
 

Avalanche

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And by the bye.. my OP was hoping Mac could go to a team where he would be exposed to the culture of leadership. Never suggesting anyone was bad by stating that. Mac, and others, are missing not just a culture of wining, but advancing in a culture of strong leadership. I think that is a REAL drag for Mac, and others.

Will you just give us your crappy Chicago trade offer for Mack so we can turn it down and you can mosey on back to the Blackhawks board
 

AllAboutAvs

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Yup.. Only a moron would lay the blame at Landys feet. How about all the other things that we severely lack in? Both on and off the ice? He's part of the solution, not the problem. Isn't his fault that everything else has been ****.
Well he was completely invisible tonight in a must-win game so...I'd say trade him?
 
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