Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XXIV|Planning for MacK Leaving

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[Cousin Eddie]

Barrie and Girard play togheter when the team is all-in for a goal. That's why they have stats like that.

For the same reason Avs often have better advanced stats when they lose games...they are chasing and the other team is defending.

Barrie and Girard have a CF% of 51.02 with the lead despite that Avs as a team have a CF% of 43.72 with the lead.

Barrie away from Girard with the lead is at 45.58.

Girard away from Barrie with the lead is at 42.54

They are significantly better with each other regardless of the score.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Icing a Girard-Barrie pairing regularly in the playoffs is asking for trouble.

You can be damn sure the opposing coaches would target that pairing. Everytime they hit the ice the opponent would try to send out their big boys with the intention of roughing them up. The playoffs are more physical, teams crash the net all the time and the refs usually swallow their whistles. Teams just don't have pairings that have two smurfs on it, for good reason.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Icing a Girard-Barrie pairing regularly in the playoffs is asking for trouble.

You can be damn sure the opposing coaches would target that pairing. Everytime they hit the ice the opponent would try to send out their big boys with the intention of roughing them up. The playoffs are more physical, teams crash the net all the time and the refs usually swallow their whistles. Teams just don't have pairings that have two smurfs on it, for good reason.

Guess we should just get rid of them instesd of playing them to their strengths.

 

[henchman21]

Barrie and Girard have a CF% of 51.02 with the lead despite that Avs as a team have a CF% of 43.72 with the lead.

Barrie away from Girard with the lead is at 45.58.

Girard away from Barrie with the lead is at 42.54

They are significantly better with each other regardless of the score.

Hopefully, one day, we can see it play out in practice. Everytime they are put together they are great and the fears of physical domination don't really come true. Girard is such a nimble player with a great first pass, and Barrie has dynamic hands and puck rushing ability... they are peanut butter and jelly when it comes to moving the puck. They can get it quickly out of danger and attack.

 

[cgf]

How about we give them a run & then worry about it if it becomes a problem? It's not like there's any evidence suggesting it would be a problem, only speculation from some that it might be

...not to mention how nice it would be to reunite the Zads-EJ shutdown pairing that has also been beastly for us when used together...

 

[The Abusement Park]

I miss the ZJ pairing. EJ seems to really know how to get Zads focused when they’re paired up.

 

[Barklez]

How about we give them a run & then worry about it if it becomes a problem? It's not like there's any evidence suggesting it would be a problem, only speculation from some that it might be

...not to mention how nice it would be to reunite the Zads-EJ shutdown pairing that has also been beastly for us when used together...

Agreed. With Cole back even if they suck together they won't be the worst pairing we have.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Is there a single team that had playoff success with a top 4 midget pairing?

One example was Josi-Ellis but even that doesn't really come close.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Barrie and Girard have a CF% of 51.02 with the lead despite that Avs as a team have a CF% of 43.72 with the lead.

Barrie away from Girard with the lead is at 45.58.

Girard away from Barrie with the lead is at 42.54

They are significantly better with each other regardless of the score.

Numbers don't always show the whole story. Maybe it can be explained with that pairing getting mostly OZ starts when they have the lead and also being subbed in on the fly once the Avs gained possession of the puck and getting on the attack?

I'm not an analytic guy, although I think they are very important when looking at the whole picture, so I'm not going to argue too much about this. I'm not opposed to giving it a more permanent try and see how it plays out. I"m just not feeling too comfortable about it. However I do believe that Barrie is much better when he is paired with a dman that can handle the puck very well. I think he feels less pressure on himself as being "the guy" to move the puck out of the zone.

 

[cgf]

Is there a single team that had playoff success with a top 4 midget pairing?

One example was Josi-Ellis but even that doesn't really come close.

Schultz-Letang as well, and I wonder if the Wild ever used Brodin-Spurgeon together?

 

[cgf]

Numbers don't always show the whole story. Maybe it can be explained with that pairing getting mostly OZ starts when they have the lead and also being subbed in once the Avs gained possession of the puck and getting on the attack?

I'm not an analytic guy, although I think they are very important when looking at the whole picture, so I'm not going to argue too much about this. I'm not opposed to giving it a more permanent try and see how it plays out. I"m just not feeling too comfortable about it. However I do believe that Barrie is much better when he is paired with a dman that can handle the puck very well. I think he feels less pressure on himself as being "the guy" to move the puck out of the zone.

But if the #s & our eyes are saying that those two tilt the ice when played together, why not give them a run & see what happens? If your concerns are justified, we should find out soon enough if we actually went with the smurfs & giants top-4.

EDIT:
I think the biggest boon to the breakout play isn't even Barrie's mindset, it's the ice that gets opened up for him to dance through when forecheckers have another breakout-weapon to think about...and even with the threat he's become on the PP, Tyson is still at his most impactful when dancing up the ice around forecheckers to give us #s on the break. Plus both being so good at keeping pucks in & walking the line, lets us extend OZ time, while also letting both of them play more aggressively.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

But if the #s & our eyes are saying that those two tilt the ice when played together, why not give them a run & see what happens? If your concerns are justified, we should find out soon enough if we actually went with the smurfs & giants top-4.

Like I said I'm willing to give it a more permanent try and see what happens. That doesn't mean that would make me feel any safer in the playoffs though.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Schultz-Letang as well, and I wonder if the Wild ever used Brodin-Spurgeon together?

The Schultz-Letang pairing is clearly bigger. Brodin is not a smurf either and the Wild barely accomplished anything.

 

[cgf]

Like I said I'm willing to give it a more permanent try and see what happens. That doesn't mean that would make me feel any safer in the playoffs though.

Wouldn't that depend on how they do together the rest of the way? I mean if they're running opponents ragged trying to keep up with the puck, then does the refs swallowing their whistles in the playoffs really matter? If they can't catch you, they can't hit you.

 

[cgf]

The Schultz-Letang pairing is clearly bigger. Brodin is not a smurf either and the Wild barely accomplished anything.

TPS would be ashamed with you for trying to pass either Schultz or Letang off as beefy.

and Brodin is smaller than me; buddy's a blueline smurf...even if he's not as smurfy a smurf as Samwise or Tboobs.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Wouldn't that depend on how they do together the rest of the way? I mean if they're running opponents ragged trying to keep up with the puck, then does the refs swallowing their whistles in the playoffs really matter? If they can't catch you, they can't hit you.

Your last sentence might be true with Girard but Barrie has been "caught" many many times in the past. In his case it is not being hit that is the biggest problem. It is being pressured by forecheckers. He starts panicking and coughs the puck up. Girard is much calmer and more shifty when being forechecked and that is why he can get out of trouble more often.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

TPS would be ashamed with you for trying to pass either Schultz or Letang off as beefy.

and Brodin is smaller than me; buddy's a blueline smurf...even if he's not as smurfy a smurf as Samwise or Tboobs.

My point is that Barrie and Girard is a really small pairing like really tiny and there is no denying that. I doubt there has ever been a succesfull playoff team in the last few decades with a pairing like that. Asking for the Avs to make history is not exactly playing it safe.

Maybe I am wrong and there is a similar winning smurf combo.

 

[cgf]

Your last sentence might be true with Girard but Barrie has been "caught" many many times in the past. In his case it is not being hit that is the biggest problem. It is being pressured by forecheckers. He starts panicking and coughs the puck up. Girard is much calmer and more shifty when being forechecked and that is why he can get out of trouble more often.

Barrie's also almost always has had a stiff next to him to worry about; which has caused hesitation from Tyson, worse passing-/skating- lanes for him to utilize, and the 5-man unit as a whole playing a game that didn't move the puck as rapidly & crisply as we could be playing with those two on the ice together...

 

[arun]

Barrie EJ = BJ
Z G
Gravy Nemo

 

[cgf]

My point is that Barrie and Girard is a really small pairing like really tiny and there is no denying that. I doubt there has ever been a succesfull playoff team in the last few decades with a pairing like that. Asking for the Avs to make history is not exactly playing it safe.

Maybe I am wrong and there is a similar winning smurf combo.

Why not? Somebody not trying something isn't proof that something does or doesn't work...though it is further evidence to how conservative the groupthink of NHL execs, is. Some team is going to take advantage of the direction the sport is going to be the first to successfully do a lot of things, sooner or later. So why not see if we can't get ahead of the curve? Especially since it's looking like the most natural way to structure our top 4 for everyone to thrive

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Barrie's also almost always has had a stiff next to him to worry about; which has caused hesitation from Tyson, worse passing-/skating- lanes for him to utilize, and the 5-man unit as a whole playing a game that didn't move the puck as rapidly & crisply as we could be playing with those two on the ice together...

And that's my problem with Barrie especially this year. His hesitation trying to find a forward allows the forechecker to get too close to him and then he tries to shake him off but he is not as good as Girard at it. If the forechecker is a very persistent one he then loses the puck to him for a turnover. He could alleviate this easily by using his partner (stiff or not) more often when no forwards are available. He would find that he would get the puck back more often than not and have more time to find an outlet. At some point you have to trust your partner a bit more and maybe the increased trust will help the "stiff" to have more confidence in himself.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Why not? Somebody not trying something isn't proof that something does or doesn't work...though it is further evidence to how conservative the groupthink of NHL execs, is. Some team is going to take advantage of the direction the sport is going to be the first to successfully do a lot of things, eventually. So why not see if we can't get ahead of the curve? Especially since it's looking like the most natural way to structure our top 4 for everyone to thrive

Here is a radical tought, maybe teams keep the smurfs on separate pairings because its the only way that works in the playoffs.

Making history is great, but when no succesful team does it usually it means its a poor idea.

 

[cgf]

And that's my problem with Barrie especially this year. His hesitation trying to find a forward allows the forechecker to get too close to him and then he tries to shake him off but he is not as good as Girard at it. If the forechecker is a very persistent one he then loses the puck to him for a turnover. He could alleviate this easily by using his partner (stiff or not) more often when no forwards are available. He would find that he would get the puck back more often than not and have more time to find an outlet. At some point you have to trust your partner a bit more and maybe the increased trust will help the "stiff" to have more confidence in himself.

Not disputing this. But it's a tough ask when you send a guy to war next to the Nate Guenin's of the world for years & then get on him for not trusting guys like Cole.

FWIW I haven't noticed that problem when he's next to Samwise or EJ

 

[cgf]

Here is a radical tought, maybe teams keep the smurfs on separate pairings because its the only way that works in the playoffs.

Making history is great, but when no succesful team does it usually it means its a poor idea.

I'd buy that more if NHL people had any history of ever trying anything new without being forced into it & discovering that it works after the fact. But with a lot this closed-minded, the absence of evidence is only proof of the fact that nobody has tried it yet.