Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XXIII|Why You Guys Post So Much!?

[Barklez]

Sorry, my bad. That is true.


My point still stands. He's trying to suggest two completely inexperienced prospects are reasons why those teams wouldn't have interest in Barrie. In reality that's not how it works. Lots of teams would have interest in Barrie right now because a lot of teams simply dont have a player capable of creating offense from the back end like Barrie does. And even the high end prospects some teams have are very unlikely to ever reach the kind of offensive upside Barrie provides.


Edmonton, Vancouver, Detroit, Montreal, New Jersey, Rangers, Vegas.... Just off the top of my head there's almost 1/3 of the league that doesn't have anybody on the level of Barrie when it comes to offense from the back end. I'm sure there's probably more and quite frankly even teams that have just 1 good offensive Dman are probably in the market for a 2nd one. Look around the league right now and you'd quickly see the true cup contending teams right now have 2-3 Defenders capable of putting up 40+ points.

To be fair there’s still quite a few GMs that would rather have a more old school group on the backend than have one of their 6 be as bad at defence as Barrie.

Not saying he’d be hard to move but it’s less simple than the amount of teams that could upgrade offensively at the back by adding him. Hell its the same reason so many people here have been advocating trading him for so long.

 

[Avs_19]

I'd be surprised if the Oilers didn't go for Barrie if he became available. They need to figure some stuff out with the cap but if they do then they could really use him. Bouchard likely isn't stepping into a top four role next season and they want to win immediately.

 

[cgf]

To be fair there’s still quite a few GMs that would rather have a more old school group on the backend than have one of their 6 be as bad at defence as Barrie.

Not saying he’d be hard to move but it’s less simple than the amount of teams that could upgrade offensively at the back by adding him. Hell its the same reason so many people here have been advocating trading him for so long.

I think you're seriously understanding how many GMs would line up outside of Joe's office for Tyson. I suspect that the market for Barrie would be deeper than the market for Duchene was...although there may not be an Ottawa out there that's just too thirsty to land him.

 

[Balthazar]

I'd be surprised if the Oilers didn't go for Barrie if he became available. They need to figure some stuff out with the cap but if they do then they could really use him. Bouchard likely isn't stepping into a top four role next season and they want to win immediately.

Oilers have 3 good forwards. Literally. McDavid, Draisaitl and RNH. If the new GM is a pure genius and by some miracles he's able to unload some of the crippling salaries on his team, chances are he's going to want to invest that money in a forward rather than an offensive RHD (because Bouchard). That'd be dumb to trade assets for Barrie, pay him big bucks just to realize that Bouchard is as good as advertised and you still have no forward nor cap space nor asset to trade left.

 

[Barklez]

I think you're seriously understanding how many GMs would line up outside of Joe's office for Tyson. I suspect that the market for Barrie would be deeper than the market for Duchene was...although there may not be an Ottawa out there that's just too thirsty to land him.

Maybe. I’ve never been in the trade-Barrie camp so don’t take it as me undervaluing him.

I just think there’s a decent number of GMs lingering in the league that would be leery about adding Barrie to their top 4 in particular. Lots of people scratched their heads at Bergevin moving PK for Weber but there’s also a lot of old-school guys around the league that loved the move. Whether or not those guys are behind-the-times, it sounds like there’s more out there than you’d assume.

The point I was trying to make is I don’t think it’s as simple as saying X amount of teams don’t have that level of offence from the back-end. There’s plenty of GMs that would rather get ~70% of the production Barrie brings without all of the defensive lapses, IMO.

There’s tons of teams that would love to take him off our hands but I’d bet there’s almost as many that would be nervous about adding him or feeling they couldn’t shelter him to the degree he probably should be, at least at the price-tag he’s earned himself, and at the price Sakic would place on him in a trade scenario.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Oilers have 3 good forwards. Literally. McDavid, Draisaitl and RNH. If the new GM is a pure genius and by some miracles he's able to unload some of the crippling salaries on his team, chances are he's going to want to invest that money in a forward rather than an offensive RHD (because Bouchard). That'd be dumb to trade assets for Barrie, pay him big bucks just to realize that Bouchard is as good as advertised and you still have no forward nor cap space nor asset to trade left.

It wouldn't be dumb at all. Having multiple high end puck moving Dmen is not a problem. It is a very good situation to be in. It's much easier to find a couple complimentary forwards for the Oilers then it would be to find an elite offensive Dman.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

It wouldn't be dumb at all. Having multiple high end puck moving Dmen is not a problem. It is a very good situation to be in. It's much easier to find a couple complimentary forwards for the Oilers then it would be to find an elite offensive Dman.

Exactly. I will tell what happens, If we trade Barrie. We will trade Barrie and after some time people will start complaining, because our defens3 can't create any offense/make a pass/bring the puck up. Offense starts from defense and If no one is able to bring up th3 puck or pass th3 puck up, you're screwed. Having offensive defenseman or at least defenseman able to make a good first pass is crucial. You can have the best offense in the world but if they can't get the puck, they are useless.

 

[Hornstar]

The whole Barrie thing is complicated. I own two Avs jerseys (who are still in the NHL) and Barrie is the only one currently on the Avs so I am a huge fan. BUT I am scared of what he is going to want on his next contract. His play this year leaves so much to be desired. Barrie has a very long leash. His defense is awful and I just don't see his offense making enough difference to justify him getting a big contract. Sure losing him would hurt but he's not carrying us deep into the playoffs. Bednar is losing faith in him as well.
Sucks cause I love Barrie but maybe it's time to move on.

 

[Ararana]

You are likely talking about a 4-5 year time line for a drafted goalie to become a starter, this is probably optimistic. Goalies have long development timelines.

My desire for Knight really has nothing to do with him immediatly helping this Avs core. I just selfishly think it'd be cool as hell to have a top flight goalie prospect in farm system to watch. I don't think we've ever had that.

 

[milehigh11]

You can have the best offense in the world but if they can't get the puck, they are useless.

Still doesnt help if that same defender plays zero defense.

 

[lonelybadger]

Still doesnt help if that same defender plays zero defense.

Wouldn't retrieving puck and clearing the zone with a controlled exit count as defense?

 

[TruePowerSlave]

I don't see where Barrie fits long-term, I really don't.

Ideally our 1st and 2nd pairings will have Makar and Girard on separate pairs alongside defensively responsible guys with some size. If Makar pans out he could and should take Barrie's spot on the 1st PP. Barrie probably wants to get paid once his contract expires, its his last big contract after all. This would all mean that we have a 7 million D on the 3rd pairing and 2nd PP unit + he shouldn't get any PK time.

 

[henchman21]

I don't see where Barrie fits long-term, I really don't.

Ideally our 1st and 2nd pairings will have Makar and Girard on separate pairs alongside defensively responsible guys with some size. If Makar pans out he could and should take Barrie's spot on the 1st PP. Barrie probably wants to get paid once his contract expires, its his last big contract after all. This would all mean that we have a 7 million D on the 3rd pairing and 2nd PP unit + he shouldn't get any PK time.

Girard belongs right next to Barrie on a pairing

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Girard belongs right next to Barrie on a pairing

It can work. However, I rather see someone that can play defense next to him.

 

[henchman21]

It can work. However, I rather see someone that can play defense next to him.

Like Cole who drags both down?

I get the trepidation of putting them together, but the eye test matches the stats here... when together, they can apply a lot of pressure offensively to the point where they are simply not playing much defense so the need there is diminished.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Like Cole who drags both down?

I get the trepidation of putting them together, but the eye test matches the stats here... when together, they can apply a lot of pressure offensively to the point where they are simply not playing much defense so the need there is diminished.

Not a fan of having two undersized D on the same pair, especially when one is average at best defensively. The Avs are going to be a team that looks to go deep in the playoffs in the not too distant future and I don't think a pairing like that is really what you want for a cup run.

Cole belongs on the 3rd pair and hopefully won't even be here after his deal is done.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Girard belongs right next to Barrie on a pairing

Barrie and Girard have been absolute money together and I’ve been preaching this for a while. Now it’s based on a very heavily offensive zone sheltered sample size (as it should be) but those guys have been dominating when on the ice together. As have Zadorov and EJ. EJ screams at Zadorov when he isn’t moving his feet too which is necessary.

They’re my top two pairings if I’m coaching and I’m using them very strategically from a matchup/zone perspective.

 

[henchman21]

Barrie and Girard have been absolute money together and I’ve been preaching this for a while. Now it’s based on a very heavily offensive zone sheltered sample size (as it should be) but those guys have been dominating when on the ice together. As have Zadorov and EJ. EJ screams at Zadorov when he isn’t moving his feet too which is necessary.

They’re my top two pairings if I’m coaching and I’m using them very strategically from a matchup/zone perspective.

100% agree... the best top 4 the Avs can muster is right there. Then as Z hopefully matures and gets more consistent (and EJ continues his decline), Makar can step in for EJ on that pairing.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

I don't think you can win in the playoffs with a Girard-Barrie pairing. Once the refs swallow the whistles and everything goes they will have a tough time.

 

[Pokecheque]

I don't think you can win in the playoffs with a Girard-Barrie pairing. Once the refs swallow the whistles and everything goes they will have a tough time.

They gotta get there first.

 

[henchman21]

They gotta get there first.

First this... second, coaches are conservative when it comes to these things and tend to be slow to react to change. The closest analog at the moment is Josi-Ellis which really does quite well in the playoffs.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

They gotta get there first.

I am talking about the long-term future of the Avalanche, not only this or next year

 

[Meeqs]

I don't think you can win in the playoffs with a Girard-Barrie pairing. Once the refs swallow the whistles and everything goes they will have a tough time.

It kind of depends on the team they are facing and who gets last change but it is a pretty common issue in the playoffs for teams to get powerforwards to sit in front of the net because the other teams don't have dmen that can deal with it.

I think you could get away with the pairing for Ozone starts here or there but I think it could certainly run into issues as a full time pair.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yeah Girard-Barrie is a money pairing and has been for a while now.


Put them together on the 2nd pairing and put EJ/Zadorov together for the tougher matchups and you've got a legitimately good Top 4. People also seriously need to get over this old school big shutdown guy paired with small offensive guy nonsense. The NHL isn't like that anymore and hasn't been for a while.

 

[hooverdam]

Yeah Girard-Barrie is a money pairing and has been for a while now.


Put them together on the 2nd pairing and put EJ/Zadorov together for the tougher matchups and you've got a legitimately good 2nd pairing. People also seriously need to get over this old school big shutdown guy paired with small offensive guy nonsense. The NHL isn't like that anymore and hasn't been for a while.

I agree wholeheartedly with your last point but I don’t think the Avs (especially and including Bednar) agree with you at all. They target those types of players for Barrie. It’s very dumb and I wish they would give it up because it’s anchored him his entire career.

It’s crazy to me that he could be even more productive if he didn’t have to lug around a defensive pylon every night.