Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XXII|6 Days Until Minor AHL Transaction

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henchman21

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Tims basically hasn't played in nearly a year... not sure how he can look good or be counted on right now.
 
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Avs44

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For the record, if Timmins was healthy and having an awesome year in the AHL as we had all hoped my outlook on this would be much different. But he's not. As I see it, if Timmins turns into anything at this point it's a fantastic luxury and I sure hope it happens, but his name should not be pencilled in on any roster at any point right now.
 

Avsboy

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Timmins will be back playing next season and will be ready for the NHL the season after. Unless he lacks the drive for it.

He has the right build and skating to be a good dman.
 

henchman21

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Timmins will be back playing next season and will be ready for the NHL the season after. Unless he lacks the drive for it.

He has the right build and skating to be a good dman.

This is Bigras circa 2015... I agree that Tims has a good future and could become a good defensemen. It just isn't something that should be counted on at all right now.
 

The Abusement Park

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Timmins will be back playing next season and will be ready for the NHL the season after. Unless he lacks the drive for it.

He has the right build and skating to be a good dman.

But will his brain be healthy enough to play. That’s the issue with Timmins, not whether he’s good enough or not.
 

henchman21

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For the record, I wouldn't say Timmins skating is at a NHL level right now... he has a few steps to go and if anything holds him back beyond injuries, it will be skating. I believe his flaws are fixable and him having some fundamental issues means I think it can improve a good chunk still. If it doesn't though, I can't see him being a NHL defender.
 

Pokecheque

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In a supporting role and not the main leader.

He was one of their biggest producers in the playoffs. They don't win either of those Cups without him.

Phil's alleged "character" issues are way overblown and IMO so are Duchene's. I'm willing to bet there are a ton of so-called "glue" guys who are positively unbearable to be around.

I do find it odd that Duchene gets slagged mercilessly while actual headcase Ryan O'Reilly gets the "I'd welcome him back in a heartbeat" treatment.
 
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Avsboy

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Yes.. but he's played zero hockey for almost a year now. That's a ton of development time lost at a crucial time.

True but it comes down to drive. Skating and size are innately good, his first pass was always good. As long as he wants it and his brain is ready, I think he can develop into a good defensive dman as long as he doesn't re-concuss.
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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"Again with this aging EJ stuff". What? Erik Johnson is going to be 31 years old next month. This is when players slow down and decline. Are you arguing against the existence of father time? "Aging EJ" isn't "stuff". Erik Johnson is aging, Erik Johnson is on the wrong side of 30 and God knows has suffered enough injuries on his body, aging players with wear and tear decline, end of conversation. You're in denial if you think otherwise.

The only thing you proved here is that players regress eventually. Not that EJ is regressing now. Not when he will definitively start to regress. And not how much he will regress.

Hoping for the addition of one quality top four defensman, while retaining the handful of top four defensmen this team currently has without aimlessly loosing them like a bunch of the gadabouts on this board desire is not unrealistic.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here, or how it relates to the conversation of adding a lesser defenseman than Karlsson to the team.

Your list of what the defense is being built around is unrealistic. Why is Connor Timmins there? He has not played hockey since May. Does that need to be repeated? He suffered a very serious concussion, he's still not playing hockey, and he just lost a full year of development at the most critical age. Pencilling him in anywhere right now is beyond my comprehension. Did we learn nothing from Chris Bigras, who was also a high end second rounder this fanbase pencilled in on every roster, whose career was derailed by a couple concussions (none of which took him out as long as Timmins'....)? Connor Timmins is someone I sure hope can be a player for us long term, but counting on it? "Building" around him? What is this?

Timmins isn't there and he wasn't penciled into the lineup. You would have seen that if you read what I said.

Timmins is also a decidedly better prospect than Bigras was at the same age. He had a better final season in junior and he had a much better showing at the WJC where he was arguably their best defenseman.

Anyone who thinks Bigras and Timmins are the same level of prospect isn't good at evaluating prospects.

There is zero reason to believe they are building this defense around Zadorov. He's credibly been in trade rumours, and he's going to be a 24 year old going into this offseason needed a new contract with a track record of uneven play.

You're talking about who the core of the team is. Not who they're building around.

They're trying to build around Jost and Compher too. Doesn't mean they're integral parts of the team. It just means they're in their plans, and their hopeful lineups for the future.

You also can't use the words "credibly" and "trade rumors" in the same sentence. GM's talk about moving players all the time. Doesn't mean they're shopping them. Maybe they do maybe they don't. Just like any other player.

I guarantee you teams were trying to pry Zadorov out of Colorado when he was struggling earlier. That's all it could have been.

Cale Makar and Sam Girard are the only two young D / prospects that can be counted on right now. That's two youngsters, one of which is already being relied on in a top four role, on a team currently lacking a top four defensman, with one of the team's top four defensmen aging and the other whom half of this board -- including yourself -- can't wait to trade for a shiny new toy (Drouin!).

Huh? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but are you saying I want to trade for Drouin? I don't. Unless we time warped to three years ago when he was sitting out in Tampa.

It's not a lot better. It's a big downgrade from Barrie to Myers. Myers is a 29 year old who is soft as well, mediocre offensively, and ridiculously inconsistent defensively. The only upgrade that would occur on the blue line would be entirely dependent on whatever Makar does out of the gate.

And I thought we were talking about now, not in "a couple years".

I think I'll bail out of this one since I know the Tyson Barrie road we're about to head down as the next logical step of this conversation.

Are we already at the point where you're twisting what I'm saying into Myers>Barrie, when that's clearly not what I was saying?

Sakic shouldn't be making big additions with "now" in mind. He should be making decisions with the next 3-5 years in mind.

I'm not sure what you're referring to with the Tyson Barrie road either. I'm not pushing for him to be traded. I've only referred to him being potentially traded if the Avs can't come to a deal, which based on their history, I think is a real possibility.
 

The Abusement Park

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True but it comes down to drive. Skating and size are innately good, his first pass was always good. As long as he wants it and his brain is ready, I think he can develop into a good defensive dman as long as he doesn't re-concuss.

It’s not about drive it’s about making sure that his brain is healthy and that he won’t turn himself into a vegetable if he starts playing too soon.
 

Avsboy

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Dec 12, 2006
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Best scenario next season:
Girard-EK
Zadorov-EJ
Cole-Makar
Graves

Second best:
Girard-EJ
Zadorov-Barrie
Cole-Makar

Worst:
Girard-EJ
Zadorov-Makar
Graves-Cole
 

Bender

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Sep 25, 2002
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At rental prices specifically. Which is usually not franchise changing unless you hit some serious luck with one or two of the pieces.

It's like with us. I don't even have a remote level of regret that the team didn't trade Stastny. I do have some animosity for Stastny stringing along the team and management with public comments about home town discounts though. Not at a extreme level, but enough that it irks me at least.

I will never, ever blame the player for that. If GMs have an upcoming UFA with 1 year left on their deal that they want to keep then the correct procedure is to try and re-sign them in July or be ready to trade them between then and the trade deadline. Any failure to do so, you live with the consequences. In some cases, they may want to keep the player regardless but there should be no belly-aching from the teams about a player 'playing it cool and acting all non-committal' about re-signing, imo.

Zadorov does not belong in that group. And penciling Timmins in is beyond stupid.

If anything it's clear that Barrie, Girard, and Makar are Three of the building blocks with a need for a 4th very soon as EJ continues his decline.

Nah...he's going to be moved, sorry.

Tims basically hasn't played in nearly a year... not sure how he can look good or be counted on right now.

He can't be counted on right now but I prefer having the team handle him the way the Bruins did with Bergeron than the way it was handled with Bigras. It's the right move and when you consider the expansion draft being in 2021, it's probably even smarter.

People might complain now but having an ED exempt Conor Timmins in 2021 is going to be fantastic.
 
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Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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Makar and Timmins look good

I think so too, but I think they'll need a Nemeth replacement. This is where the "we can't count on Timmins' idea is relevant.

Best scenario next season:
Girard-EK
Zadorov-EJ
Cole-Makar
Graves

Second best:
Girard-EJ
Zadorov-Barrie
Cole-Makar

Worst:
Girard-EJ
Zadorov-Makar
Graves-Cole

I think there's probably a third and fourth scenario there too though.
 

Avsboy

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Dec 12, 2006
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I think there's probably a third and fourth scenario there too though.

I think those pretty much cover it unless we roll with Barrie and EK in some imaginary shangri-la. The worst case scenario is bad but not horrifying; can still be a top half d core if Makar adjusts well.
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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I think those pretty much cover it unless we roll with Barrie and EK in some imaginary shangri-la. The worst case scenario is bad but not horrifying; can still be a top half d core if Makar adjusts well.

I'd disagree with that, which might be why I view adding a non Karlsson D as a very real possibility.

I think there's a decent chance they move Barrie, don't want to pay for EK, and want to add an upgrade on Nemeth. That upgrade may come in the Barrie trade though, hard to tell.
 

BleedWell

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Jan 6, 2018
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Best scenario next season:
Girard-EK
Zadorov-EJ
Cole-Makar
Graves

Second best:
Girard-EJ
Zadorov-Barrie
Cole-Makar

Worst:
Girard-EJ
Zadorov-Makar
Graves-Cole
Your worst scenario is the right scenario. We will not get EK and we have to trade Barrie.
 

henchman21

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He can't be counted on right now but I prefer having the team handle him the way the Bruins did with Bergeron than the way it was handled with Bigras. It's the right move and when you consider the expansion draft being in 2021, it's probably even smarter.

People might complain now but having an ED exempt Conor Timmins in 2021 is going to be fantastic.

Oh I think that Avs are doing the right thing here... no sense in risking.

It won't save Tims from the ED though... this is his first pro season regardless. See Gustav Olofsson and the expansion draft.
 
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Foppa2118

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This is Bigras circa 2015... I agree that Tims has a good future and could become a good defensemen. It just isn't something that should be counted on at all right now.

Timmins is not Bigras. The only thing similar is they both had a bad concussion. Timmins had a better final year in junior and a much better WJC.

We have to wait and see how he looks in the next year or so obviously, but one of the main reasons Bigras didn't look good when he came back was because of his demeanor. He's a very gentle soul to begin with, and played too timid when he came back.

Timmins doesn't have this demeanor. He's willing to muck it up if necessary. That gritty mentality will hopefully help him get through the mental hurdles of returning from a concussion, and making plays under the pressure of heavy forechecks, but we'll have to see.
 
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