Confirmed with Link: Avs match O'Reilly's offersheet [AAV 5 million /2 years]

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The Shermanator

HFBoards Legend
Jul 2, 2011
21,376
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Ontario
I don't see why everyone else will necessarily want to get paid the huge bucks too. If they are really team guys they will realize O'Reilly was greedy and therefore an exception. They will know that they club can't afford to pay them all that much. I'm sure they will all take discounts together (if they want to stay together)
 

Bonzai12

Registered User
Nov 2, 2007
14,141
1,717
Denver CO
I know everyone is happy but I feel like this will bite us in 2 years. Should have got the deal done and Calgary made us pay for it. Now we lose him in 2 years.
 

S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
30,706
16,238
Toruń, PL
We were close to trade with Calgary? I know they asked about him and the price was too high in a trade, but I think Healy is talking out of his ass on this one.
 

Avs For Life

#92 #9 #29
Jul 4, 2012
3,710
2
Denver, CO
I know everyone is happy but I feel like this will bite us in 2 years. Should have got the deal done and Calgary made us pay for it. Now we lose him in 2 years.

Im not sure this is entirely the case.

Yeah everyone wanted him back but there are a lot of people that know this was NOT the way to get him back. Im still torn because I think he isnt who we thought he was...

Theres something about the whole thing that just annoys me...

With that said...if he plays like he did last year or better I like Duchene and ROR as our 1-2 punch.

Staz either needs much better wingers or a change of scenery.
 

RockLobster

King in the North
Jul 5, 2003
27,092
7,234
Kansas
I understand the "disgruntledness" (not a word I know) of everyone in here.

But let's rewind to what quite a few people here were saying, not only here, but also on the Trade Forum.

We were putting on a "brave face" for the other teams' fans because we all said that if ROR signed an OS, we'd be happy, because that would give the Avs an "out" if you will, and say, "We didn't offer this contract, ______ did, we just matched it".

Well, let's look at some things that we KNOW of, in perspective:

A) We were told that ROR wouldn't sign an OS, and according to TPS that came straight from the horse's mouth.

B) Apparently there were at least 4 other teams that sent ROR an offer sheet, those of which he didn't sign

C) The contract that ROR signed is NO ONE's fault but Jay Feaster and The Calgary Flames Organization in my opinion.

Why do I believe that? Because he structured it in such a way that he believed that it would be a "poison pill" for the Avs to match it. We as fans are saying that ROR "isn't worth a 5m AAV" but we are also the SAME fans who when we see terrible Stastny trade proposals, one of the first responses we have is something along the lines of "The market will dictate Stastny's worth..."

Well, there were at least 5 teams who offered SOMETHING more than what the Avs offered him (one can assume) and we know at least one team who offered ROR the AAV of 5m. It seems like the market dictated Ryan's worth, and honestly, anyone in the same situation would take the money, I know I would. I'm not going to turn down a contract like that, and I don't expect Ryan or ANY other athlete in any other sport to leave money on the table...especially when the other side offers it.

I don't see anything wrong with Ryan O'Reilly admitting to the fact that in Professional Sports, ANYTHING can happen, so knowing the risk that all athletes in every sport take, I understand that in an athlete's already shortened career, they do need to get the most they can for themselves.

Joe Sakic knew it, he never left any money on the table at all, Peter Forsberg, Adam Foote, etc. they all knew. Otherwise if it WEREN'T about the money, we wouldn't have lost the players we lost at the end of the previous lockout (not comparing UFA vs RFA status of Forsberg/Foote vs ROR, just that ALL athletes look out for themselves).

Because in reality ROR is right, if he were to suffer a career ending injury tomorrow, right or wrong the Avalanche will move on from him, lest we all forget about Steve Moore.

I'm happy he's back, he will make our team better. He's 22 years old and I don't believe that he's even scratched the surface of what he's capable of in the NHL.
 

The Shermanator

HFBoards Legend
Jul 2, 2011
21,376
7,980
Ontario
Good post RL.


I agree that we need to stop complaining and saying he's not worth that money. Clearly somebody thought he was so he probably is.
 

Bubba Thudd

is getting banned
Jul 19, 2005
24,571
4,666
Avaland
I understand the "disgruntledness" (not a word I know) of everyone in here.

But let's rewind to what quite a few people here were saying, not only here, but also on the Trade Forum.

We were putting on a "brave face" for the other teams' fans because we all said that if ROR signed an OS, we'd be happy, because that would give the Avs an "out" if you will, and say, "We didn't offer this contract, ______ did, we just matched it".

Well, let's look at some things that we KNOW of, in perspective:

A) We were told that ROR wouldn't sign an OS, and according to TPS that came straight from the horse's mouth.

B) Apparently there were at least 4 other teams that sent ROR an offer sheet, those of which he didn't sign

C) The contract that ROR signed is NO ONE's fault but Jay Feaster and The Calgary Flames Organization in my opinion.

Why do I believe that? Because he structured it in such a way that he believed that it would be a "poison pill" for the Avs to match it. We as fans are saying that ROR "isn't worth a 5m AAV" but we are also the SAME fans who when we see terrible Stastny trade proposals, one of the first responses we have is something along the lines of "The market will dictate Stastny's worth..."

Well, there were at least 5 teams who offered SOMETHING more than what the Avs offered him (one can assume) and we know at least one team who offered ROR the AAV of 5m. It seems like the market dictated Ryan's worth, and honestly, anyone in the same situation would take the money, I know I would. I'm not going to turn down a contract like that, and I don't expect Ryan or ANY other athlete in any other sport to leave money on the table...especially when the other side offers it.

I don't see anything wrong with Ryan O'Reilly admitting to the fact that in Professional Sports, ANYTHING can happen, so knowing the risk that all athletes in every sport take, I understand that in an athlete's already shortened career, they do need to get the most they can for themselves.

Joe Sakic knew it, he never left any money on the table at all, Peter Forsberg, Adam Foote, etc. they all knew. Otherwise if it WEREN'T about the money, we wouldn't have lost the players we lost at the end of the previous lockout (not comparing UFA vs RFA status of Forsberg/Foote vs ROR, just that ALL athletes look out for themselves).

Because in reality ROR is right, if he were to suffer a career ending injury tomorrow, right or wrong the Avalanche will move on from him, lest we all forget about Steve Moore.

I'm happy he's back, he will make our team better. He's 22 years old and I don't believe that he's even scratched the surface of what he's capable of in the NHL.

Well said, but...

Technically, if he were to blow out his knee tomorrow, he'd have been better off taking a 5-year 17M contract, wouldn't he? He'd collect the full amount, right?
 

LazRNN

Registered User
Dec 17, 2003
5,059
29
Whether or not to trade O'Reilly when they can should not be decided yet. If the Avs have already decided what they want to do with him, it's a testament to what is wrong with the organization. If O'Reilly plays like a stud before his contract is up, they better make a commitment to him, regardless of how he handled this situation.

If he basically plays like he did his 3rd year, playing strong defensive hockey with a bit of offensive punch (or whatever you want to call 55 points in 81 games), and Stastny can show signs he has regained his pre-2011 tank dive form, they should trade him.

No one knows for sure how any of this plays out, so no decisions should have been made yet.
 

RockLobster

King in the North
Jul 5, 2003
27,092
7,234
Kansas
Well said, but...

Technically, if he were to blow out his knee tomorrow, he'd have been better off taking a 5-year 17M contract, wouldn't he? He'd collect the full amount, right?

Not sure on that, but my gut tells me "No".

I don't think Steve Moore saw the rest of his contract from the Avalanche, maybe some sort of Insurance money, but likely nothing close to what his contract was paying him.

I would think the teams have something in place where they wouldn't have to pay a player who suffered a career ending injury the rest of his contract.
 

Bubba Thudd

is getting banned
Jul 19, 2005
24,571
4,666
Avaland
35bybk.jpg
 

Freudian

Clearly deranged
Jul 3, 2003
50,414
17,182
Good post RL.


I agree that we need to stop complaining and saying he's not worth that money. Clearly somebody thought he was so he probably is.

When is comes to offer sheets, salary has very little to do with worth. I'd argue they are designed to provide so poor value for the dollars spent that the team holding the players rights will be discouraged from matching.

If players value was measured in dollars drenched in the desperation of Jay Feaster, we'd need a $100M salary cap. Feaster got desperate because he knows how bleak his and Calgary Flames future is. The offer sheet reflect this.

Avs have themselves to blame. They let another, desperate team, set the price for one of their players. If they had taken care of business, Feaster never would have gotten the chance.
 

RockLobster

King in the North
Jul 5, 2003
27,092
7,234
Kansas
When is comes to offer sheets, salary has very little to do with worth. I'd argue they are designed to provide so poor value for the dollars spent that the team holding the players rights will be discouraged from matching.

If players value was measured in dollars drenched in the desperation of Jay Feaster, we'd need a $100M salary cap. Feaster got desperate because he knows how bleak his and Calgary Flames future is. The offer sheet reflect this.

Avs have themselves to blame. They let another, desperate team, set the price for one of their players. If they had taken care of business, Feaster never would have gotten the chance.

This is true, it's really the reason why I, while understanding that Ryan needs to shoulder some of this blame, I feel most of it needs to be shouldered by the Avalanche Brass. They held firm at 3.5m a year because they had it in their minds that O'Reilly couldn't POSSIBLY make more than Duchene, even while they knew good and well that Matt signed for A LOT below his market value on that deal.

To me, it sounds as if The Avs could have had their bridge deal, but it would have been probably close to 4m, and it would have required the Avs to actually negotiate, not just issue a "take it or leave it" offer.
 

hawk30

Registered User
Oct 5, 2009
744
303
Rochester, NY
They held firm at 3.5m a year because they had it in their minds that O'Reilly couldn't POSSIBLY make more than Duchene, even while they knew good and well that Matt signed for A LOT below his market value on that deal.
.

How do you know either of these things?
 

Avs_19

Registered User
Jun 28, 2007
84,507
32,087
Well said, but...

Technically, if he were to blow out his knee tomorrow, he'd have been better off taking a 5-year 17M contract, wouldn't he? He'd collect the full amount, right?

I'm not sure but unless he retires, shouldn't he get the full amount? It might be through insurance but he should still get paid.
 

Nihiliste

Registered User
Feb 8, 2010
11,536
4,658
I'm not sure but unless he retires, shouldn't he get the full amount? It might be through insurance but he should still get paid.

Yes it depends entirely on the injury. If its something where he can stay on IR for years like Dipietro he would get paid in full. If it were a Moore situation where theres no shot of recovery and he's forced to retire then no.
 

BoxOfChocolates

Registered User
Mar 7, 2010
11,344
1,458
Good post RL.


I agree that we need to stop complaining and saying he's not worth that money. Clearly somebody thought he was so he probably is.

The day people will shut up about Stastny not being worth the money, I'll shut up about RoR not being worth it. Ain't ever gonna happen.
 

Avs_19

Registered User
Jun 28, 2007
84,507
32,087
The day people will shut up about Stastny not being worth the money, I'll shut up about RoR not being worth it. Ain't ever gonna happen.

Stastny clearly isn't worth what he's making right now. Still don't know about O'Reilly, he hasn't played a single game since signing his new contract.
 

RockLobster

King in the North
Jul 5, 2003
27,092
7,234
Kansas
How do you know either of these things?

Because Duchene's deal is an INSANELY good deal for the club compared to what Myers, Tavares, Kane all re-signed for. If Duchene had even made 4m on his contract we'd all still be raving about how good of a contract it is.

And the stuff about the Avs not wanting to pay Ryan more than Matt was in the Denver Post and also when you look at their "final offer", 2yrs 7m, same deal Matt signed, it's pretty obvious that the Avs had no initial intention of paying him more than Matt Duchene.
 
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