Friedman: Avs interested in Nick Hjalmarsson

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

It was your theory and I was the one who was being harassed.

If you want to be a suck up, feel free. But please be intellectually honest and not kiss up by providing unlikely theories as to motivation.

Can you please quote the post where I offered this theory? I'd love to read the thing I never said...

And, for the record, someone disagreeing with your baseless claims doesn't mean you're being harassed.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Can you please quote the post where I offered this theory? I'd love to read the thing I never said...

And, for the record, someone disagreeing with your baseless claims doesn't mean you're being harassed.

Putting yourself at risk of being a seller in a buyers market is “baseless.” Lol Maybe you should stop using words like this?

Btw, I’m not sure if you’re just slow to catch on to this issue or if you’re being deliberately obtuse because you’ve already entrenched yourself. If it’s the former, there’s little to say. If it’s the latter, your dedication to this is harassment.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Putting yourself at risk of being a seller in a buyers market is “baseless.” Lol Maybe you should stop using words like this?

Btw, I’m not sure if you’re just slow to catch on to this issue or if you’re being deliberately obtuse because you’ve already entrenched yourself. If it’s the former, there’s little to say. If it’s the latter, your dedication to this is harassment.

Where's the quote of me offering the theory you claim is mine?

And, your baseless claim is that a GM might be interested in acquiring Cole in order to get a draft pick. As I asked early, why would any competent GM want Cole + 2nd instead of just the 2nd?

 

[John Mandalorian]

Where's the quote of me offering the theory you claim is mine?

And, your baseless claim is that a GM might be interested in acquiring Cole in order to get a draft pick. As I asked early, why would any competent GM want Cole + 2nd instead of just the 2nd?

Ha ha!

Have a nice day.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Ha ha!

Have a nice day.

So, no quote?

 

[John Mandalorian]

So, no quote?

In order to suck up, you’re entertaining the notion that Sakic could be adding Hjalmarsson with the idea in mind he will later trade Cole. You took this position, I’m assuming, because Coyote fans objected to taking on Cole for a year. The problem with that is that you’re suggesting Sakic is putting himself at risk of becoming a seller in a buyers market. These are positions that you’ve been taking. And additionally, you’re hampsterwheeling this trying to posture like you’ve taken a reasonable position.

You can dig up your own quotes.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

In order to suck up, you’re entertaining the notion that Sakic could be adding Hjalmarsson with the idea in mind he will later trade Cole. You took this position, I’m assuming, because Coyote fans objected to taking on Cole for a year. The problem with that is that you’re suggesting Sakic is putting himself at risk of becoming a seller in a buyers market. These are positions that you’ve been taking. And additionally, you’re hampsterwheeling this trying to posture like you’ve taken a reasonable position.

You can dig up your own quotes.

I don't need to dig up quotes, because I know exactly what I've said. And, I've never once suggested that Sakic should acquire Hjalmarsson first and then worry about trying to trade Cole. I've also never once suggested that Sakic should put himself at risk of becoming a seller in this market. If you think I have said either of these things, please quote the posts where you think that happened, because I can't find them. Otherwise, stop putting words into my mouth to try to build your strawman.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I don't need to dig up quotes, because I know exactly what I've said. And, I've never once suggested that Sakic should acquire Hjalmarsson first and then worry about trying to trade Cole. I've also never once suggested that Sakic should put himself at risk of becoming a seller in this market. If you think I have said either of these things, please quote the posts where you think that happened, because I can't find them. Otherwise, stop putting words into my mouth to try to build your strawman.

Strawman?! No, and again, you should stop using words like that. You’re abusing the language. What’s in play here is the associative property. I guess you’re probably not going to understand that. But it’s not a strawman at all. You not understanding something doesn’t make it “baseless” or a “strawman”. Nice try though.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Strawman?! No, and again, you should stop using words like that. You’re abusing the language. What’s in play here is the associative property. I guess you’re probably not going to understand that. But it’s not a strawman at all. You not understanding something doesn’t make it “baseless” or a “strawman”. Nice try though.

Why would I stop using words that accurately describe what you're doing? You've refused to provide evidence to support your claims, which makes them baseless. Then, you misrepresented what I've said in order to argue against something completely unrelated, which is building a strawman. There have also been some ad hominem attacks thrown in for good measure, since apparently providing evidence to support your claims, or even answering the very simple question of "why would a GM want Cole + 2nd instead of just the 2nd" is too difficult.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Why would I stop using words that accurately describe what you're doing? You've refused to provide evidence to support your claims, which makes them baseless. Then, you misrepresented what I've said in order to argue against something completely unrelated, which is building a strawman. There have also been some ad hominem attacks thrown in for good measure, since apparently providing evidence to support your claims, or even answering the very simple question of "why would a GM want Cole + 2nd instead of just the 2nd" is too difficult.

Like I said before. Have a nice day.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Like I said before. Have a nice day.

Baseless claims, strawmen, ad hominem attacks, and now running away. I was only an AINEC away from getting HF bingo...

 

[John Mandalorian]

Baseless claims, strawmen, ad hominem attacks, and now running away. I was only an AINEC away from getting HF bingo...

You were an “inherent barrier” away from high school debate.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

You were an “inherent barrier” away from high school debate.

The inherent barrier to this being an actual debate was the lack of an opponent willing to support their claims with facts and evidence. But, hey, as long as you can pretend you won, don't let reality get in the way.

 

[John Mandalorian]

The inherent barrier to this being an actual debate was the lack of an opponent willing to support their claims with facts and evidence. But, hey, as long as you can pretend you won, don't let reality get in the way.

Enjoy your hamster wheel and your misused words.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Enjoy your hamster wheel and your misused words.

The hamster wheel is the only thing of value I got from this whole conversation. You better believe I'm going to enjoy the hell out of it.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Ugh...torn. The Hammer was one of my all-time faves with Chicago...such a rock. Sadly, he's not nearly the player he once was and he's hit that stage where the drop for a pure defensive defender is very steep.

If the price is cheap (meaning trade assets) and we limit him to lower pair ice time, he could be useful. And sure, that salary comes off the books in a year but I'm not sure the Avs are keen on paying a third pairing defender $5 million next year. Ian Cole is already making $4.25 million to be a third pair vet. Tying over $9 million to those two is not great and doesn't seem like a Sakic move. There's a difference between being able to afford it for a year and actually wanting to do so.

Technically, they'd be paying them $7m in cash.

Not saying the Avs have to get Hjalmarsson, but they have to make next year count. No more Makar on his ELC after next year. Grubauer is a UFA, and outside of a surprise run like Khudobin, you're not even sure he's a Cup winning type goalie. Landeskog is going to be looking for his likely last big contract. Kadri will be 30. Johnson is 32 taking up $6m in cash and space for 3 more years.

Realistic windows don't stay open forever. There's never a perfect prediction on these things, but every year you don't win, it gets a little bit tougher the following season. It's death by a thousand cuts. It's one more year on the body. It's one more dollar handed out in a contract. It's a down year from someone. Maybe the chemistry is different. It's all the little things.

 

[Richard88]

Curious about how Avs fans feel about the premise.

Hjalmarson might have a lower real salary than his caphit, but his caphit is still pretty high. He's also a 33 year old pending UFA coming off an injury plagued season in an offseason where there are many Dmen available. Not to mention that he has a NMC that will limit the market for Arizona if they try to move him.

Needless to say I don't think his trade value is that high. Maybe something similar to what we got for Soderberg last offseason would be fair (i.e. 3rd + 7D).

As a young and likely very cheap (RFA without arbitration rights) Jost should carry some decent value in a flat cap league for teams that want to get cheaper and/or rebuild a bit.

 

[rt]

Hjalmarson might have a lower real salary than his caphit, but his caphit is still pretty high. He's also a 33 year old pending UFA coming off an injury plagued season in an offseason where there are many Dmen available. Not to mention that he has a NMC that will limit the market for Arizona if they try to move him.

Needless to say I don't think his trade value is that high. Maybe something similar to what we got for Soderberg last offseason would be fair (i.e. 3rd + 7D).

As a young and likely very cheap (RFA without arbitration rights) Jost should carry some decent value in a flat cap league for teams that want to get cheaper and/or rebuild a bit.

Hjalmarsson is a much better player than Soderberg has ever been and it's not close. He's likely a much better player than Jost will ever be also. Not saying that mitigates your points by any means, but it's a consideration. I'd say Hjalmarsson's low cash compensation would make him a good fit for retention, but Jost is RFA. Not sure if there's a way to make that math work. If it were cap neutral, I have no doubt that Hjalmarsson is an asset much better suited to helping Colorado win that extra playoff round next year, than is Jost. But the cap isn't neutral, and that isn't the only consideration.

 

[Richard88]

Hjalmarsson is a much better player than Soderberg has ever been and it's not close. He's likely a much better player than Jost will ever be also. Not saying that mitigates your points by any means, but it's a consideration. I'd say Hjalmarsson's low cash compensation would make him a good fit for retention, but Jost is RFA. Not sure if there's a way to make that math work. If it were cap neutral, I have no doubt that Hjalmarsson is an asset much better suited to helping Colorado win that extra playoff round next year, than is Jost. But the cap isn't neutral, and that isn't the only consideration.

I don't doubt that Hjalmarsson is a better player than Soderberg, but for the reasons I mentioned I don't think his trade value would be significantly higher than what Soderberg fetched.

I would anticipate that Jost is going to come in at a max. $2m caphit on a 2-3 year deal, which is pretty decent value given that he can fill a bottom 6 role reasonably cheaply. A 1-for-1 trade isn't the worst idea, but I think Colorado can do better if they pay Arizona with picks and move Jost separately. Arizona likely won't want to part with picks in any deal to make up the balance.