Friedman: Avs interested in Nick Hjalmarsson

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Are you really struggling with having a cap hit of 9.25 for Hjalmarsson and Cole doesn't make sense? It's not making sense for both sides if Cole and Hjalmarsson are eating up 9.25 of cap space. If it were for Jost straight up, ok. But there would need to be subsequent moves.

I agree that it doesn't make sense for the Avs. The point you seem to be ignoring is that Cole and Hjalmarsson eating up $9.25 of cap space would be the Avs' problem, not Arizona's. If acquiring Hjalmarsson without sending back an overpaid player Arizona doesn't want or need is a problem for the Avs, Arizona will simply find another trading partner. They have zero reason to create problems for themselves in order to solve a problem with a trade they don't need to make.

 

[_Del_]

The value of Hjalmarsson is not high. He’s coming off a rough season

He had a fine season. He wasn't 27 yr old Hjalmarsson, but he was very solid, and is a pro's pro. He had a couple good games in the postseason, a couple bad ones, and a bunch of so-so ones I'm not sure how much stock to put into nine post season games, two or three of which were bad when the whole team was horrific. He's obviously not a spring chicken, but he had about the season I expected. I don't think anyone picks him up thinking he found the fountain of youth, but he's still a good veteran defenseman.
I'm fine holding him until the deadline where his cap is prorated if they don't get value in the offseason. He's making peanuts.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I agree that it doesn't make sense for the Avs. The point you seem to be ignoring is that Cole and Hjalmarsson eating up $9.25 of cap space would be the Avs' problem, not Arizona's. If acquiring Hjalmarsson without sending back an overpaid player Arizona doesn't want or need is a problem for the Avs, Arizona will simply find another trading partner. They have zero reason to create problems for themselves in order to solve a problem with a trade they don't need to make.

To the contrary. I explicitly stated as much in post 148 of this thread.

I can still see a new GM preferring a year of Cole if a draft pick is coming back over Jost. Whether Armstrong agrees with fans on a message board is hard to know.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

To the contrary. I explicitly stated as much in post 148 of this thread.

I can still see a new GM preferring a year of Cole if a draft pick is coming back over Jost. Whether Armstrong agrees with fans on a message board is hard to know.

Where exactly do those words appear in that post? Where do you think you said that it's not Arizona's responsibility to solve the Avs issues with a trade that doesn't involve Cole going back?

And, assuming Arizona is tearing it down to get younger and cheaper, the only way Cole + draft pick makes more sense than Jost straight up is if the draft pick is a 1st, and that's not going to happen. A 2nd isn't a good reason to spend $3m on a guy you don't want or need.

 

[EdAVSfan]

The point your missing is a cap hit of 9.25 million to have Cole and Hjalmarsson on your roster. This makes far less sense than the Coyotes trying to accumulate draft picks. It’s not consistent with anything that Joe has done —AT ALL.

Do you honestly believe that Sakic who drew a line in the sand with ROR, Barrie, etc is going to take a 9.25 million dollar cap hit to have Hjalmarsson and Cole?

Its absurd.

I’m not sure how this is at all relevant.

At no point did I suggest that Sakic is going to keep both for 9.25M cap.

what a few of us are arguing is that Cole to Arizona in exchange for Hjalmarsson doesn’t make sense for financial reasons.
There is a world that exists where Sakic can move for Hjalmarsson and move Cole somewhere else.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I’m not sure how this is at all relevant.

At no point did I suggest that Sakic is going to keep both for 9.25M cap.

what a few of us are arguing is that Cole to Arizona in exchange for Hjalmarsson doesn’t make sense for financial reasons.
There is a world that exists where Sakic can move for Hjalmarsson and move Cole somewhere else.

It’s possible that Sakic is going after Hjalmarsson with a trade for Cole already lined up. I hope that’s the case but it seems unlikely. And doing so without as much is also kind of risky. But please tell me more about what makes sense.

Btw, this is coming from Friedman, right? How do we know whether it’s true? As has been noted many times, he hasn’t really had contacts within the Avs.

 

[_Del_]

, the only way Cole + draft pick makes more sense than Jost straight up is if the draft pick is a 1st, and that's not going to happen. A 2nd isn't a good reason to spend $3m on a guy you don't want or need.

No, no. Arizona should take the worse, more expensive player for a "late pick" -- because they need to save money!

 

[Bone Breaker]

even with his drop in play, should be a decent option for the bottom pairing if the price is cheap.
he can't play worse than Cole, right? RIGHT???

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

It’s possible that Sakic is going after Hjalmarsson with a trade for Cole already lined up. I hope that’s the case but it seems unlikely. And doing so without as much is also kind of risky. But please tell me more about what makes sense.

Btw, this is coming from Friedman, right? How do we know whether it’s true? As has been noted many times, he hasn’t really had contacts within the Avs.

Friedman doen't really need contacts within the Avs when he can get information about which teams have called the Coyotes about their players from someone with ties to Arizona.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Friedman doen't really need contacts within the Avs when he can get information about which teams have called the Coyotes about their players from someone with ties to Arizona.

The GM has been there one day.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

The GM has been there one day.

According to the OP, the information is allegedly coming from Tocchet, who has been there for more than one day and would most likely know who has called about which players.

There's also no legitimate reason to doubt that the Avs would at least ask about a good depth D with 1 year left on his contract. Doesn't mean the Avs are definitely going to acquire him, just that Sakic is doing his job and exploring his options.

 

[Jormungandr]

According to the OP, the information is allegedly coming from Tocchet, who has been there for more than one day and would most likely know who has called about which players.

That’s not what the Tocchet reference in the OP is implying at all.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

That’s not what the Tocchet reference in the OP is implying at all.

You're right. I was going by the OP, and not the original column, so I missed some of the context. With that said, it's still hard to dismiss Friedman's reporting on who called the Coyotes because he doesn't have inside information about the Avs.

 

[the_fan]

even with his drop in play, should be a decent option for the bottom pairing if the price is cheap.
he can't play worse than Cole, right? RIGHT???

Hjalmarsson had an off year, but I think he'd still be better than Cole, Zadorov and also better option on 1st pair than Graves

 

[dkollidas]

I’d love to see the Sabres go after him. He’d be a great mentor for Dahlin/Jokhiharju/Ristolainen.

 

[rt]

I’d love to see the Sabres go after him. He’d be a great mentor for Dahlin/Jokhiharju/Ristolainen.

He’s got a NMC.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Fleury and Subban combined to start 65 games that season, and started all but 1 game after December 10, so not sure if they really fit the criteria, but, they did lose both their starter and backup for 13 games in October/November and the team somehow still went 7-5-1, despite allowing 43 goals on 369 shots (0.883 SV%).

So, the examples seem to be Ottawa, who needed Hammond to go 20-1-2, and Vegas, in their inaugural season when everything just went their way. Not really scenarios that most teams can replicate, which is pretty much my point. Expecting teams to overcome losing both their starter and backup is extremely unrealistic, and even more so in the playoffs.

A part of the reason Vegas allowed so many goals during that stretch is that their third string goalie also got injured and their fourth string goalie had to play a couple of games. Even their fifth string goalie got into a game.

 

[Islay1989]

Neat. Once again, welcome to being a contender. Nobody cares if you lost your top two goalies. They care about championships while Makar, Mackinnon, and Kadri are still affordable.

Francouz doesn't change the series, because he sucked. A championship squad has a goalie that steps in and changes the series. We've seen it many times.

2016 Pens started their third string goalie and won a cup. 2019 Blues were playing their third string goalie in Binnington on the way to a cup. 2015 Hawks, Darling was technically their 3rd string goalie and beat the Preds.

Francouz was injured fyi. That's why he sucked.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

A part of the reason Vegas allowed so many goals during that stretch is that their third string goalie also got injured and their fourth string goalie had to play a couple of games. Even their fifth string goalie got into a game.

Yes, they were scraping the bottom of their goalie barrel, but it was still only 13 games, and all of them were before December 12. And, other than that stretch, Vegas had a storybook season where everything seemed to go as well as could possibly be expected. It's not exactly a scenario that is easy for other teams to replicate.

 

[John Mandalorian]

According to the OP, the information is allegedly coming from Tocchet, who has been there for more than one day and would most likely know who has called about which players.

There's also no legitimate reason to doubt that the Avs would at least ask about a good depth D with 1 year left on his contract. Doesn't mean the Avs are definitely going to acquire him, just that Sakic is doing his job and exploring his options.

Your theory (and that of other Avs fans too) that Joe would be looking to acquire Hjalmarsson to then turn around and unload Cole is seemingly less and less likely by the day. With the number of players available, it may not be so easy to trade Cole, in which case Colorado would have Cole and Hjalmarsson eating up 9.25 m of cap space. This is precisely what I was talking about when you and other Avs fans were trying to suck up to the Coyote fans. Again, I think something with Cole and a pick might be why Joe is interested in this. The Coyote fans may not like Cole but new GMs probably value draft picks differently than fans on message boards. Or maybe the new GM feels similarly to the Coyote fans on this board and that's why a deal won't happen. It's all speculation anyways since almost no details were provided other than dropping names.

 

[CraigsList]

The Avs would get 10x better with Hjalmarsson on the back end. Perfect acquisition for them.

 

[_Del_]

I think you're emotionally invested in defending a bad trade proposal and argument you made. Everyone makes them sometimes. It's fine. Chin up.

I can see this being Cole (1 yr at 4.25) for Hjalmarsson (1 yr at 5.xx).

It seems like the Coyotes are cash strapped and heading into a rebuild. Any scenario involving a trade for a comparable player and comparable term that’s cheaper seems realistic at this point.

If they are cash strapped, why are they trading Hjalmarsson for a worse defenseman who makes a million more than Hjalmarsson?

Could be a late round draft pick then. I’m sure the new GM might be interested in draft picks.

Why does cashstrapped Arizona trade for a worse defenseman owed more money for the tantalizing prospect of adding a late pick? If the new GM is interested in draft picks, I doubt he's interested in gaining salary and downgrading the roster for a late pick when they could get an earlier pick without taking bad money and cap back?

A whole bunch of rationalizations about why you think the Avs shouldn't trade for Hjalmarsson without sending back Cole, don't answer the questions. Maybe they shouldn't. It'd probably be difficult for Armstrong to care less because A) Hjalmarsson is owed peanuts and doesn't have to be traded this offseason, B) doesn't have to go to the Avs, C) will get more than a late pick and bad money. None of the reasons real or imagined for Colorado to not trade for him make the idea any more plausible or appealing to Arizona.

I have no idea if Sakic likes Hjalmarsson or not, but if he does, I think he knows AZ isn't interested in taking on salary for a downgrade just to add a late pick, and wouldn't waste his breath and time proposing and defending bad deals for Arizona.

 

[Freudian]

Haven't Avs bumped their head into the Worn Down Veteran wall enough times?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Your theory (and that of other Avs fans too) that Joe would be looking to acquire Hjalmarsson to then turn around and unload Cole is seemingly less and less likely by the day. With the number of players available, it may not be so easy to trade Cole, in which case Colorado would have Cole and Hjalmarsson eating up 9.25 m of cap space. This is precisely what I was talking about when you and other Avs fans were trying to suck up to the Coyote fans. Again, I think something with Cole and a pick might be why Joe is interested in this. The Coyote fans may not like Cole but new GMs probably value draft picks differently than fans on message boards. Or maybe the new GM feels similarly to the Coyote fans on this board and that's why a deal won't happen. It's all speculation anyways since almost no details were provided other than dropping names.

First of all, it's not my theory that Sakic is looking to acquire Hjalmarsson. Friedman explicitly said that the Avs called about Hjalmarsson. That's literally what this entire thread is about. Whether you think it's a good idea or not, there's no reason to pretend that Friedman didn't get the information from a legitimate source within the Coyotes organization. I completely agree with you that it doesn't make sense to have Cole and Hjalmarsson on the roster together. I completely agree that it's going to be difficult to move Cole. But, there's still no reason to doubt that the Avs asked if Hjalmarsson is available.

Secondly, the guy you were harassing for saying that the Avs having Cole and Hjalmarsson after a trade isn't Arizona's problem is very clearly a Leafs fan. How exactly is pointing out that he's absolutely right about it not being Arizona's problem that we'd have both Cole and Hjalmarrson eating up $9.25m in cap space somehow me "trying to suck up to the Coyotes fans"?

Now, with that being said, can you please explain why any competent GM would want Cole + draft pick more than just the draft pick? Why is Cole + 2nd preferable to just the 2nd, especially for a cash strapped team?

 

[John Mandalorian]

First of all, it's not my theory that Sakic is looking to acquire Hjalmarsson. Friedman explicitly said that the Avs called about Hjalmarsson. That's literally what this entire thread is about. Whether you think it's a good idea or not, there's no reason to pretend that Friedman didn't get the information from a legitimate source within the Coyotes organization. I completely agree with you that it doesn't make sense to have Cole and Hjalmarsson on the roster together. I completely agree that it's going to be difficult to move Cole. But, there's still no reason to doubt that the Avs asked if Hjalmarsson is available.

Secondly, the guy you were harassing for saying that the Avs having Cole and Hjalmarsson after a trade isn't Arizona's problem is very clearly a Leafs fan. How exactly is pointing out that he's absolutely right about it not being Arizona's problem that we'd have both Cole and Hjalmarrson eating up $9.25m in cap space somehow me "trying to suck up to the Coyotes fans"?

Now, with that being said, can you please explain why any competent GM would want Cole + draft pick more than just the draft pick? Why is Cole + 2nd preferable to just the 2nd, especially for a cash strapped team?

It was your theory and I was the one who was being harassed.

If you want to be a suck up, feel free. But please be intellectually honest and not kiss up by providing unlikely theories as to motivation.