Speculation: Avs' Goaltending
- Thread starter Mike Jones
- Start date
if your the avs you dont make any move besides trading vets you dont want for picks this year. sakic is a horrible gm and you dont let him mess up more trades.
strictlyrandy
Registered User
Not sold on Varly having a bounce back year and not sold on Picks ever being more than a good backup.
Varly's play and constantly injured groin have soured me on him. He is talented and athletic, but I don't see how he can recover and play at the level he needs to.
If Varly isn't picked up by Vegas, I fear no other team wants him. We're kinda stuck with him.
Trading for a goalie is a bad move. It's a huge gamble this team doesn't need to make.
Varly's play and constantly injured groin have soured me on him. He is talented and athletic, but I don't see how he can recover and play at the level he needs to.
If Varly isn't picked up by Vegas, I fear no other team wants him. We're kinda stuck with him.
Trading for a goalie is a bad move. It's a huge gamble this team doesn't need to make.
Goalies need to know how to make the groins strong and coaching shouldn't overuse them.
If Pickard is a good backup that's a good thing to have, need another goalie to play the other 41 games. I would play Varlamov/Pickard next season in a tandem because Vegas won't take Varlamov.
Gigantor The Goalie
Speak for the Goalies
We have seen Pickard with starter workloads. It hasn't gone well so far. There's some sort of mental block that doesn't allow Pickard to have consecutive good games this season. He seems to only play at peak level after a long rest.
Yes I know, but playing him b2b didn't help either. This is a good time to be assurred what he's capable of and then use him accordingly next season. It's a big step from backup to playing starter workloads with good results, only few can do that, but he's young and goalies need time. I like what NSH is doing, they play Saros every 3rd game, giving Rinne the needed rest, good for both of them. Now imagine COL would have done the same from the start of the season. I'm sure Varlamov would still be playing.
While I appreciate the sincerity of response, it was not more than somewhat jest. Whichever expiring Goalie hits waivers will be just as good as the next for the Av's purposes during the remainder of the season.
Also, Trade deadline means nothing to the Avs as they won't need to worry about having a guy not qualify for a playoff roster. Nor will they likely trade anything beyond an career AHL type or very late pick to a team to get a backup, so deadline won't be in play for either team.
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
Which trades, specifically, do you think Sakic messed up? Giving a 6th for Soderberg? Trading ROR for the best package they could get before he bolted as a UFA? Giving up a 2nd for Berra?
I think Sakic has made more risky/bad UFA signings than trades. And, letting Stastny walk looks bad in retrospect, but at the time the team was competitive and Stastny was saying all the right things. It was another UFA gamble that didn't quite pay off as hoped.
RockyMtnRedhawk
Registered User
Boedker, Gelinas, Berra and Stuart come to mind. I don't think Sakic is the worst GM out there, but he has made some pretty bad trades.
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
Stuart was bad, but we recouped everything we gave up for him in exchange for moving down 8 spots in the 2015 draft. So, not great, but not horrible. The extension was my bigger problem with that trade.
Gelinas cost a 3rd. Not sure I'd call that bad, given how unlikely it is to get a remotely serviceable NHL player with a 3rd.
Berra probably was worth a 3rd, instead of a 2nd, but Roy and Allaire thought they could make him great, and that 2nd ended up being 54th OA, which is almost a 3rd.
Boedker allowed us to get rid of Tanguay, and cost Bleakley (a compensation 2nd?) and Wood. It was an optimistic trade that looks worse because Boedker decided to go UFA. If Wood becomes a stud NHL D, it'll look even worse.
I'm not trying to say Sakic is a great GM, but his trade issues are slightly overblown.
AMDZen
ME in the RED Circle
Yes his trade issues are overblown and not very good, but also not as bad as they could be. But you want to chance it? Who is to say which moves Sakic wanted more or which Roy wanted more. They basically shared the role and I can assure you that Boedker was Roy. Berra was also Roy and the others we may never know. Regardless, that isn't why Sakic is a terrible GM. Hiring Bednar was the biggest mistake this franchise has seen.
Roy got all the blame when he left and Avs fans were more than happy to let him have it all, because they wanted him gone. But don't tell me for a second that Sakic wasn't in part responsible for why Roy left and the way he left. Sakic created that situation as much as anyone and then did the worst thing possible with Bednar.
strictlyrandy
Registered User
Roy was a bad coach. Bednar is saddled with a hodge podge of a team that wasn't built with one clear vision. Remember when the team was buying into Bednar's system at the beginning of the year and the team was watchable? I remember.
I'll give Bednar and Sakic next season. If next season is another bad year, burn it all down and just get it over with. Start anew with guys like MacK, Jost, Rantanen, and Zadorov.
AMDZen
ME in the RED Circle
What I remember at the beginning of the season was a team still playing Roy's system. Basically a lack of a system. You're telling me that Bednar had time to teach his system in the limited training camp when all our best players were in the wjc? It's funny that people will argue in one breath that Roy put us in a bad situation and Bednar didn't have time to teach his system, and then when that doesn't fit the narrative it's instead that the teamed looked great to start the year and that was Bednar. Lol.
It fits the narrative and mob mentality that this forums Avs fans share. Nobody is thinking critically, Avs fans are like one mind with one narrative. Nice job forming your own opinion
strictlyrandy
Registered User
I never made claims that Bednar didn't have enough time. They were playing what they were learning from Bednar's system. They relapsed into bad habits taught under Roy and that sunk them.
Roy had terrible habits as a coach that damaged this team (blowing a whistle for a line change just as they gain possession being an example). Sorry I'm not a Roy apologist. He got a lot of slack because Varly played out of his mind one season. When Varly played average and the luck came back down to earth, Roy got exposed as a poor coach.
Sorry I don't want to write off Bednar half way through his first season. Again. I'll wait until Bednar can get a team built with one purpose in mind. The team as it is is too old and slow outside of a few players to really keep up with his system.
Just because you hate Bednar and disagree with someone who has formed their own opinions doesn't mean it's a hive mind. Stop with the persecution complex ffs.
AMDZen
ME in the RED Circle
They were playing what they were learning from Bednars system? Sorry... Whether you made that claim or not is irrelevant. There was no time for them to learn Bednars system, that much is a fact not opinion. Several people have made the claim that this was on Roy for leaving and putting the organization into the situation where he didn't have enough time, which is also irrelevant. I argue that it's on the entire front office, Roy included but this is also irrelevant.
We'll focus on a single issue. You can't argue that they were playing his system in its entirety at the beginning because there simply wasn't enough time for them to have learned it in its entirety.
On the opinion part. My opinion is that as they became more knowledgeable about Bednars systems, and as a consequence, became actually less effective the more they learned, they began to lose faith in Bednar which simply furthered the spiral down. Your argument, which you can clarify it I am wrong, is that they started to regress into Roy's system and his ways the more they learned of Bednars system? Sorry but even if this is the case, it's still on Bednar 100%. I ask anyone reading this which scenario makes more sense, from an outsider perspective.
The other problem is that the Avalanche "clique" is so tight, with the same few dozen people in every GDT bouncing the same thoughts against the same people, you don't even realize that you've become a hive mind. Maybe it's the same on every team board around HF, I don't know. But all you need to do is look outside HF to see the truth of this. I constantly see comments thrown out on the Avalanche board about how crazy the opinions are from other communities about the Avalanche, and they aren't really that crazy, just different.
AMDZen
ME in the RED Circle
Also one other thought since I can't edit. Your post also said
The team as it is is too old and slow outside of a few players to really keep up with his system.
However, as we have both pointed out, the team was actually playing good hockey the first few weeks of the season. The team has only gotten younger and faster since that time period, with the addition of Nieto, zads full time, and subtraction of McCleod and others which doesn't support that.
The fact is that Bednar has a system that the players think is totally ineffective and it's simply taken them time to completely give up on it. At first they thought it was like we do, Roy leaving, no time to learn it in its entirety. Then they started to think, why are we worse now since we know his system better, we should be better. Well let's give it a chance. More time goes by and all faith that Bednar knows what he is doing is gone. The older players are playing with even less effort, not just because they're old, because they know better than anyone how terrible Bednars system is, having played in enough other systems over their career.
The team as it is is too old and slow outside of a few players to really keep up with his system.
However, as we have both pointed out, the team was actually playing good hockey the first few weeks of the season. The team has only gotten younger and faster since that time period, with the addition of Nieto, zads full time, and subtraction of McCleod and others which doesn't support that.
The fact is that Bednar has a system that the players think is totally ineffective and it's simply taken them time to completely give up on it. At first they thought it was like we do, Roy leaving, no time to learn it in its entirety. Then they started to think, why are we worse now since we know his system better, we should be better. Well let's give it a chance. More time goes by and all faith that Bednar knows what he is doing is gone. The older players are playing with even less effort, not just because they're old, because they know better than anyone how terrible Bednars system is, having played in enough other systems over their career.
me2
Go ahead foot
Anyone got a goalie that they are prepared to pay a pick to get rid of, must be on expiring contract.
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
What's wrong with Calvin Pickard being the starter? His numbers are pretty darned good when you consider how horrible Colorado is. 3.01 GAA and .906 Save Percentage is nothing to look down upon. Once Sakic and company seriously address the defense and then get the forwards playing, Colorado will be OK. They aren't that far away from being a competitive club again.
There's nothing wrong with him being a starter but with the compact schedule there is a need for a second goalie who can play more than the usual number of games for a backup. I was simply wondering what the Avs' options were given Varly's season ending injury.
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