Post-Game Talk: Avs 5 - Jets 2, Series tied at 1

[DRW204]

Matches what I think I've been seeing.

By my count, only 17/84 zone exit attempted were controlled and successful

Yikes

Of defenseman.

 

[LowLefty]

I noticed this a lot as well last 2 games. It's almost like a panic move to try to alleviate pressure. Dallas did this a lot with Bones at the helm in their run to the finals as well. It worked for awhile until they ran into Tampa who could always roll the attack back into the zone quickly.

We need to abandon this tactic against the Avs, they are just two fast at counterattacking for it to work.

It's not almost a panic move - it is a panic move.
Composure on D is not easy when the Aves are zipping around your zone - but until they settle down and take a look for throwing it away, this is what you will get.
I doubt this has anything to do with coaching - it's players who are trying to deal with a very good offensive team and struggling with it. It's not like we don't have forwards waiting for the pass - they just are not looking for targets in the heat of it all. JoMo is the exception - which tells us that there are options if you look for them.

 

[LowLefty]

Even as the #1Stan fanboy I also agree with this move. Getting Samberg on the left is a smart idea.

It's worth a shot and will be interesting to see -
Will Samberg be more effective on the left side? Likely
Is Smitty able to get it done defensively? Because smart outlets only work if you have the puck.
I doubt it but hope he has some success.
I wonder if Miller gets a look at some point? Maybe he's the guy that makes a difference.

 

[Daximus]

It's not almost a panic move - it is a panic move.
Composure on D is not easy when the Aves are zipping around your zone - but until they settle down and take a look for throwing it away, this is what you will get.
I doubt this has anything to do with coaching - it's players who are trying to deal with a very good offensive team and struggling with it. It's not like we don't have forwards waiting for the pass - they just are not looking for targets in the heat of it all. JoMo is the exception - which tells us that there are options if you look for them.

I think it is coaching. Maurice always talked about the safety valve and Dallas utilized it heavily in their run to the finals. Ultimately Tampa was able to counter it perfectly.

I think it comes down to if you feel the pressure it's better to get rid of it then to hold onto it and turn it over. But the players aren't adequately identifying when they are actually under pressure.

 

[LowLefty]

I think it is coaching. Maurice always talked about the safety valve and Dallas utilized it heavily in their run to the finals. Ultimately Tampa was able to counter it perfectly.

I think it comes down to if you feel the pressure it's better to get rid of it then to hold onto it and turn it over. But the players aren't adequately identifying when they are actually under pressure.

I can't see how it's coaching when we have been successful at exits through a good part of the reg season - I honestly can't see a coach telling his players to give up on successful exit methods and throw it away. I'll give the coach the benefit of the doubt on that - and I guess that is where we disagree because neither of us know what Bones is telling these guys.

 

[JetsFan815]

it's all manually tracked
uncontrolled means chip or dump-out. 1/4 of uncontrolled dzone exits end up w/ the same team (Jets) having the puck again.
from Garret Hohl

View attachment 859587

Those Pionk's stats remind me of days at work where I technically put in a 10 hr day at the job while accomplishing nothing of value. I relate.

 

[Jets 31]

I suck at golf. I also suck at mini-golf. But I do have a talent for suntanning, until the dust became ridiculous.

I can't imagine anyone wanting to play 18-holes in this afternoon's conditions, although I understand a golfer passionate for the game will play in all manner of adverse weather. Did you score well today?

I always score well, oh you were talking about the golf score. 87 and i played good. My golf game......

 

[surixon]

I can't see how it's coaching when we have been successful at exits through a good part of the reg season - I honestly can't see a coach telling his players to give up on successful exit methods and throw it away. I'll give the coach the benefit of the doubt on that - and I guess that is where we disagree because neither of us know what Bones is telling these guys.

This has been the default breakout scheme all year. Since it's the playoffs we've been heavily prescouted and game planned against. It's up to the coaching staff to add some wrinkles to it.

Don't get me wrong we aren't executing very well either due to Colorado not giving our dmen time to assess their options on the retrieval. Nothing though has changed, the default plan is still to put it up the board to a winger waiting.

 

[LowLefty]

This has been the default breakout scheme all year. Since it's the playoffs we've been heavily prescouted and game planned against. It's up to the coaching staff to add some wrinkles to it.

Don't get me wrong we aren't executing very well either due to Colorado not giving our dmen time to assess their options on the retrieval. Nothing though has changed, the default plan is still to put it up the board to a winger waiting.

All I see is panic - and the easiest play is always the ring around - but I don't see the coach encouraging that play, default or otherwise.
Basically, if the dman can't make a good play, they'll likely make a bad one - that's not by design. I don't buy it.

 

[surixon]

All I see is panic - and the easiest play is always the ring around - but I don't see the coach encouraging that play, default or otherwise.
Basically, if the dman can't make a good play, they'll likely make a bad one - that's not by design. I don't buy it.

How many dmen outside of JoMo can actually make plays with the puck though? There in lies the issue. It wasn't as noticeable during the regular season but micro stats all year showed JoMo and then a massive gap to everyone else in terms of puck movement. It is likely the biggest reason for our fairly simplistic breakout scheme. We had more time and space in the regular season so better decisions were being made.

There is much more panic now because our dcore that isn't very good at puck moving to begin with is getting pressured much more ferociously and don't have the skill to do much more then rip it up the boards.

If you look at the stats below, our dmen outside of JoMo and Snerg have roughly 50 or below percentage in controlled exits but average around a half in uncontrolled and failed exits. This would fit right in line with the up the boards strategy for 50/50 battles between wingers and opposing players. So imo we never had a robust transition game at any point. It was JoMo moving the puck smartly and everyone else except snerg predominantly using the boards.

 

[GNP]

I suck at golf. I also suck at mini-golf. But I do have a talent for suntanning, until the dust became ridiculous.

I can't imagine anyone wanting to play 18-holes in this afternoon's conditions, although I understand a golfer passionate for the game will play in all manner of adverse weather. Did you score well today?

I've always admired people with a great natural talent for suntanning. This practise is often underrated, and very much unappreciated. Just think of all the Vitamin D you get from the sun, not to mention that great youthful sexy look you get.

You have a lot more talent than many might think on here.

 

[LowLefty]

How many dmen outside of JoMo can actually make plays with the puck though? There in lies the issue. It wasn't as noticeable during the regular season but micro stats all year showed JoMo and then a massive gap to everyone else in terms of puck movement. It is likely the biggest reason for our fairly simplistic breakout scheme. We had more time and space in the regular season so better decisions were being made.

There is much more panic now because our dcore that isn't very good at puck moving to begin with is getting pressured much more ferociously and don't have the skill to do much more then rip it up the boards.

If you look at the stats below, our dmen outside of JoMo and Snerg have roughly 50 or below percentage in controlled exits but average around a half in uncontrolled and failed exits. This would fit right in line with the up the boards strategy for 50/50 battles between wingers and opposing players. So imo we never had a robust transition game at any point. It was JoMo moving the puck smartly and everyone else except snerg predominantly using the boards.

I agree with all of this - of course it is based on the skill level of our D versus the level of the opposition.
I'm only questioning the point that Bones is telling them to throw the puck away with these clearing attempts.
Can you imagine a coach telling his players to ring it or throw it up the boards because you're likely not good enough to make a decent play?

And he doesn't have to come out and say it like I just did - but even considering that play as anything more than a panic play that usually results in a turnover, is basically telling your players that they are not capable of making the right play.

So yes, we use that play a lot - no debate on that. But it's not by design and it is not encouraged or suggested as an option. Those are plays made by a player that is over whelmed / panicked.

 

[surixon]

I've always admired people with a great natural talent for suntanning. This practise is often underrated, and very much unappreciated. Just think of all the Vitamin D you get from the sun, not to mention that great youthful sexy look you get.

You have a lot more talent than many might think on here.

Yup, I have zero talent for it. I go as red as a lobster lol.

 

[surixon]

I agree with all of this - of course it is based on the skill level of our D versus the level of the opposition.
I'm only questioning the point that Bones is telling them to throw the puck away with these clearing attempts.
Can you imagine a coach telling his players to ring it or throw it up the boards because you're likely not good enough to make a decent play?

And he doesn't have to come out and say it like I just did - but even considering that play as anything more than a panic play that usually results in a turnover, is basically telling your players that they are not capable of making the right play.

So yes, we use that play a lot - no debate on that. But it's not by design and it is not encouraged or suggested as an option. Those are plays made by a player that is over whelmed / panicked.

See I think it is by design unless a dmen has time to make a pass to an open player. It's too ingrained for it not to be something that's been coached into them. It also fits with the coaches mo on risk tolerance. The lowest risk play is up the boards to a contested area.

We are likely going to have to start moving the puck more riskly up the middle to get Colorado to stop their overload.

Edit: I'm not actually trying to dump on Bones here as it's a breakout scheme when executed can work well. Pittsburgh won back to back cups using something very similar and Dallas got to a cup final. It's based around moving the puck quickly up the side of the ice to a forward to chip/skate it out. The idea is to exit the zone quickly with or without control and have a forward skate onto the puck. The issue is that like any system that has lead to playoff success, it has been studied and broken down by multiple coaches. Tampa a couple of years ago showed teams the template to beat it. Forecheck hard and 2 man overload boards, thus preventing the chip/skate out. So imo we need to either start quickly reversing the puck on retrieval and going out the other side, or we need to go.up the middle as Colorado isn't sending anyone there.

 

[GNP]

From what I see, 2 things have to happen if the Jets are to win this series.

1) Helle, has to play like a Vezina rated Goalie, and learn how to come up big in the playoffs when the chips are on the table. He says he's here to win the Cup, but if you look at his playoff performances over the last several years, he chokes. I hope he can loosen up a bit, and ease the nerves, and play like a Vezina rated Goalie. This is a must, and if he falls apart tomorrow night -- put Brossoit in, before we drop more games.

2) Ehlers has to start driving that 2nd line, and play with passion, grit and determination, which he has not been doing, but we all know he's capable of. He is the catalyst for that second line and has to pick up his play. His play in the first 2 playoff games, looked less than mediocre. C'mon Nick, who wants it more here ? Step on the gas.

Also I've not been impressed with Tofolli, and likely would play him on the 4 th line, and move Perfetti on to that 2nd line.

If the above things happen, we have a good shot at taking this series, and if they don't we won't win this series.

 

[GNP]

I always score well, oh you were talking about the golf score. 87 and i played good. My golf game......

Jets31 must be delighted with his golf season starting in mid April this year. The golfing Gods have been kind. I'll bet those custom made Titleist clubs are going to get a good workout this year.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

I noticed this a lot as well last 2 games. It's almost like a panic move to try to alleviate pressure. Dallas did this a lot with Bones at the helm in their run to the finals as well. It worked for awhile until they ran into Tampa who could always roll the attack back into the zone quickly.

We need to abandon this tactic against the Avs, they are just two fast at counterattacking for it to work.

There's a certain level of sports where possession means nothing and simply moving the "object" closer to the other teams net/end zone and allowing them to make a mistake so you can score works. But that shouldn't work at this level. As a desperate option to relieve pressure sure, but as noted our D did this many times when they had plenty of time and space to do something else.