Auto-reflexive songs

[Lshap]

"You're so vain. You probably think this song is about you." - Carly Simon

"It goes like this, the fourth, the fifth
The minor fall, the major lift
The baffled king composing Hallelujah" - Leonard Cohen

 

[Lshap]

To be totally honest, I wasn't familiar with the term, "Auto-reflexive songs". I thought maybe it had to do with choking yourself just as you get to the chorus.

 

[brokeu91]

To be totally honest, I wasn't familiar with the term, "Auto-reflexive songs". I thought maybe it had to do with choking yourself just as you get to the chorus.

I literally laughed out loud at that

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I'm interested in all levels of reflexivity, intertextuality (and all its variants) and metalepsis (as understood by Genette). It's true of films, but of everything else too... my favorite paintings are certainly Pollock's Lavender Mist (handprints) and Full Fathom Five (cigarette butts, Shakespeare reference), and I will also fight to the death anybody who doesn't acknowledge the genius of Malevitch's Black Square.

Could you expand on your interest? I'm genuinely interested as to what you find so rewarding about it?

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

...

Fun example. And though he identifies himself as the writer of the song, the "you" reminds wide open. I like that it also contains a critic of the song too.

...

Amazing, I love it!

Opening bars of the verses of CunninLynguists track "Doin Alright"

Criminally underrated hip hop group, by the way.

Nice find, and there's a weird play with the timeline... I don't know the genesis of the song, but verse 1 is said to be written in 1999, but verse 2 after 2001-09.

"You're so vain. You probably think this song is about you." - Carly Simon

"It goes like this, the fourth, the fifth
The minor fall, the major lift
The baffled king composing Hallelujah" - Leonard Cohen

You didn't know what I meant, but sure have interesting knowledge to feed the subject

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Billy Bragg's "A New England"
" I was 21 years when I wrote this song, I'm 22 now but I won't be for long."

That was interesting in itself.

Those first two lines were from another song written by Paul Simon.

And just became interesting-er... Now to play with meaning, you'd have to ask what's the retour signifiant of that allusion.

Which brings me to @Amerika 's question... Well, that would be really hard to explain, but you can read French, I'll send you something.

 

[brokeu91]

I don’t know if this counts but “Hook” by Blues Traveler. It’s basically about why songs are liked

 

[NyQuil]

I don’t know if this counts but “Hook” by Blues Traveler. It’s basically about why songs are liked

This might be the best example in the thread. The story behind Hook is hilarious and fascinating.

From Wikipedia:

The chord progression of "Hook" is very similar to the basic structure of Pachelbel's Canon in D,[2][3] (D-A-Bm-F#m-G-D-G-A, or I-V-vi-iii-IV-I-IV-V),[4] but transposed to the key of A major. This chord progression is very widely used in popular music, often as the hook, leading to other satirical takes on the use of this chord structure.

The song's lyrics, aimed directly at the listener, assert that the lyrical content of any song is effectively meaningless, as the song's musical hook will keep listeners coming back, even if they are unaware of the reason. In the introduction, John Popper sings:

"It doesn't matter what I say / So long as I sing with inflection / That makes you feel that I'll convey / Some inner truth or vast reflection."

This is followed by more lyrics about how he has nothing to say. These lyrics are a satirical take on the formulaic way popular music is generated. Further on in the song however, the lyrics become even more blatant, claiming that formulaic music is an easy way to make money "When I’m feeling stuck and need a buck/ I don’t rely on luck, because/ the hook brings you back...”

The musically "lazy" chord structure viewed in combination with the meta-lyrics reveal the true extent of the song's "genius": "the commentary is a big joke about how listeners will like just about anything laid on top of the chords of the infinitely clichéd Pachelbel canon, even lyrics that openly mock them for liking it.

I recall reading somewhere that the record company demanded that they develop a hit or something, so they came up with this as a way to give them the finger, and of course, the company loved it (and missed the joke I think).

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

I don’t know if this counts but “Hook” by Blues Traveler. It’s basically about why songs are liked

Very interesting!

This might be the best example in the thread. The story behind Hook is hilarious and fascinating.

From Wikipedia:

I recall reading somewhere that the record company demanded that they develop a hit or something, so they came up with this as a way to give them the finger, and of course, the company loved it (and missed the joke I think).

Very interesting-er!!

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Nice find, and there's a weird play with the timeline... I don't know the genesis of the song, but verse 1 is said to be written in 1999, but verse 2 after 2001-09.

The song was released on the SouthernUnderground album in April 2003. According to a Blog post by CunninLynguists which included interviews from the group and some comments from one of the members (Deacon the Villain) the verses are true down to the word. I looked into it a bit in the past, and from what I read the 1st verse was written by SOS back in 1999 and never used for any published song. Given the lyric "3 years later and change" I would guess that the 2nd verse was written sometime in 2002.

 

[archangel2]

this was an easy one

 

[NyQuil]

Speaking of George Harrison:

 

[Mescaleroman]

I think after the Tenacious D / Tribute and Blues Traveler /Hook suggestions we may all be fighting for the bronze medal .
Here's my nomination with all kinds of the gag reflex Lshap must have been talking about above.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Watching the Get Back doc made me check up Billy Preston a little, and this one reminded me of this thread.

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

The song I want to hate, but I don't , because although the lyrics of the chorus are cringe, it was done intentionally as hinted in the verses, sot it's proof of some kind of genius, yeah that's right it's an awesome song, wtf am I saying????? the lyrics are ridiculous! That song sucks. Well, no it doesn't really suck, I mean it's catchy and all and the saxophone bit it is rather cool , so I like it, but I hate it........

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

The song I want to hate, but I don't , because although the lyrics of the chorus are cringe, it was done intentionally as hinted in the verses, sot it's proof of some kind of genius, yeah that's right it's an awesome song, wtf am I saying????? the lyrics are ridiculous! That song sucks. Well, no it doesn't really suck, I mean it's catchy and all and the saxophone bit it is rather cool , so I like it, but I hate it........

Suicidal Tendencies did the cynical cousin to that one:



I don't know what the next song's gonna be
But I know how the words are gonna go
They'll be singing "Oh baby, baby, baby, baby, baby, baby I Love you so"
So won't everybody sing along cause her comes just another love song

[I need you like I need a hole in my head
I need someone to steal my money and wish I was dead]

 

[Big Muddy]

The song I want to hate, but I don't , because although the lyrics of the chorus are cringe, it was done intentionally as hinted in the verses, sot it's proof of some kind of genius, yeah that's right it's an awesome song, wtf am I saying????? the lyrics are ridiculous! That song sucks. Well, no it doesn't really suck, I mean it's catchy and all and the saxophone bit it is rather cool , so I like it, but I hate it........

I hear a lot more than just a sax (outside of the more obvious instruments used like guitar, bass & piano). There's horns, strings, etc. that follow the chord progression that provide fills, harmony and additional depth. McCartney knew how to write songs & could sing. He and Lennon were a dynamic duo in that regard.

 

[Big Muddy]

This might be the best example in the thread. The story behind Hook is hilarious and fascinating.

From Wikipedia:



I recall reading somewhere that the record company demanded that they develop a hit or something, so they came up with this as a way to give them the finger, and of course, the company loved it (and missed the joke I think).

I liked the wiki explanation of the (chord) structure of the song. I wonder who wrote it?

Most popular music tends to be pretty simple in structure. I guess its easier for more people to relate to it when its like that. A lot of people just listen to the lyrics and are oblivious to what's "under the hood" so to speak. Nothing wrong with that - just a reflection of reality.

A lot of popular music (music in general) is triadic. Again, nothing wrong with that, and obviously it can be quite interesting especially if its done with some skill. And people will always fall for the hook and catchy beat as the person who wrote that bit in Wiki is pointing out.

Over the years I just started to migrate towards diatonic music more & more because I found the engineering & structure more interesting. That's especially true when you try to solo or create interesting lines when the chords & structure are more complex. OK - I'll show myself the door now as I'd guess no will care about any of this.

 

[Ceremony]

Lots of this as well as intertextuality in Frightened Rabbit's music







(this probably won't load, but it's called Default Blues and is probably the starkest example)