EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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Proposal: Auston Matthews offer sheet?
- Thread starter EspenK
- Start date
koteka
Registered User
I think we should offer sheet Mitch Marner while Arizona offer sheets Matthews and see what Toronto does.
SuperGenius
For Duty & Humanity!
- Mar 18, 2008
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The probability of Toronto not matching any offer sheet is 0%
I wish the NHL would just do away with the concept. It rarely happens, yet there are thousands of message board posts about it each year...
I wish the NHL would just do away with the concept. It rarely happens, yet there are thousands of message board posts about it each year...
Johansen2Foligno
CBJ Realest
- Jan 2, 2015
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The Hockey Message Board lobbyists will not let that happen. That regulation would greatly reduce site traffic.
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
- Jun 13, 2009
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You'd want to satisfy two conditions:
If the Leafs don't match, the Jackets need to want to pay him $15m per. I think they do.
If the Leafs match you have to value the cap-bind you're putting them in high enough to counter the added risk to your own RFAs.
I think it's a serious idea. And the Leafs probably match, and are seriously weakened as a result. They're one of the top teams in our conference, it's valuable to weaken them. Maybe valuable enough to make up for headaches with Dubois and Werenski getting offer-sheets. What does Dubois ask for if his team offers $15m for Matthews?
If the Leafs don't match, the Jackets need to want to pay him $15m per. I think they do.
If the Leafs match you have to value the cap-bind you're putting them in high enough to counter the added risk to your own RFAs.
I think it's a serious idea. And the Leafs probably match, and are seriously weakened as a result. They're one of the top teams in our conference, it's valuable to weaken them. Maybe valuable enough to make up for headaches with Dubois and Werenski getting offer-sheets. What does Dubois ask for if his team offers $15m for Matthews?
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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The question was should the Jackets do it not do you think it is going to happen? I know they are a rare occurrence but so is a true #1 C for the Jackets.
As an added bonus for you & SG here is a quote from a Brian Burke conversation:
Iron Balls McGinty
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2005
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The offer sheets exist for a reason. It's almost like the teams are colluding to not use them to try to keep salaries down. Hard to prove but teams don't like to use them because they are scared that one will get used on them. However the cost is high so if you have a generational talent like Auston Matthews then go for it. Toronto will be in a pinch next season anyway and if both Marner and Mathews get offer sheets I don't think they can match both and still fill out a roster.
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
- Jun 12, 2008
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I love it.
We haven't seen Foudy, so the last 4 first round CBJ picks who can be reasonably evaluated at the NHL level have been: Dubois, Werenski, Carlsson and Milano. I'd trade these four for Matthews.
Plus the Leafs get hurt bad if they match. That will kill their ability to sign Marner.
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I don't know if I would trade those 4 for Matthews, but the Jackets probably aren't going to be drafting top ten in the next half-decade anyways. It's more like we'd be giving up Wennberg, Dano, Carlsson, Milano. Much easier decision!
koteka
Registered User
The other guy to consider is Brayden Point.
This is a strange year because you have two teams that look to be the best in the Eastern conference over the next few years both having a ton of talent that have centers that could be offer sheeted.
What can Tampa Bay afford to pay Point? Probably not $10 million/year and that would cost 2 firsts, a second, and a third.
This is a strange year because you have two teams that look to be the best in the Eastern conference over the next few years both having a ton of talent that have centers that could be offer sheeted.
What can Tampa Bay afford to pay Point? Probably not $10 million/year and that would cost 2 firsts, a second, and a third.
EspenK
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- Sep 25, 2011
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Interesting point. I'm not sure Point would translate to the Jackets system (lack of?) at the same level he is playing in TB. Still worth considering though.
Off topic a bit but what protections are there for the first round picks? Does it have to be ours? Basically if we would do something like that and end up with 22nd pick in 2019 draft, could we turn around and trade that pick for 30th overall (before the draft) plus a 4th round pick. I'm assuming has to be some type of protection from having a team do that.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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I believe all the picks have to be your own.
Pipe dream. Having said that if you were going to pay the max return in picks for an offer sheet, here is the one you do. He's worth all those picks and the contract.
This is correct. To use the Point offer sheet as an example for how this can really affect teams, Jarmo sent the Jackets 2020 3rd rounder to Ottawa as part of the Cole trade. In order to send Point an offer sheet that's between $8.1m and $10.1m Jarmo would need to get that pick back from Ottawa.
The other thing that comes into play is the rules for figuring compensation. It's not simply the AAV of the deal but the total value offered divided by the lesser number of the years offered or 5. Say Jarmo offered Point $60m over 6 years the number used for compensation would actually be $60m divided by 5 or $12m putting the four 1st rounders into play.
It's a system that heavily discourages offer sheets from even being offered due to all the different quirks.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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Thanks for the refresher. I knew that just forgot. Tough to get the pick back but we still have 4 firsts for Matthews.
Hello Johnny
Registered User
- Apr 13, 2007
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I don't think we will submit an offer sheet. However, I think there is somewhat of a Changing of the Guard and offer sheets won't be seen as taboo as they are now in a few years.
WannabeFinn
Beloved One
In a salary cap league where talent on ELCs fuel contenders, you would offer $15m per for 7 years while simultaneously parting ways with 4 first round picks? That's just... steep. Real steep.
Yup. He may not be generational, but with a Matthews Dubois 1-2 combined with Jones, Z and Murray behind them I'd think we'd be in contention for the forseeable future.
Your best players don't need to be on ELCS, your depth players do.
Ovechkin and Kueznetzov weren't on ELCs
Datsyuk and Zetterberg weren't on ELCs
Crosby and Malkin weren't on ELCs. Murray and Guentzel were (I think)
Kane and Toews weren't on ELCs
Kopitar and Doughty weren't on ELCs
Your best players don't need to be on ELCS, your depth players do.
Ovechkin and Kueznetzov weren't on ELCs
Datsyuk and Zetterberg weren't on ELCs
Crosby and Malkin weren't on ELCs. Murray and Guentzel were (I think)
Kane and Toews weren't on ELCs
Kopitar and Doughty weren't on ELCs
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
- Jun 13, 2009
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Should they do it? No. Will they? No.
Media people have been saying since the last CBA was ratified that "this was the summer for offer sheets." Remember Johansen? Remember Subban? Burke hasn't been a GM since 2013, and although he may have connections he doesn't know whats going on inside the league. Also, players have to want to leave their respective teams.
I'll believe it when I see it, and I don't count on it happening.
If you're picking 25th-31st, the picks barely factor in. Guys at that range usually don't make it and when they do it takes longer for them to start providing value.
I don't think the issue is the picks, or the money. If it was just that it would be obvious that we should sign Matthews.
The issue is that it raises the costs for your other players too. What does Dubois ask for if Matthews gets $15m - is he half the player? And you should be prepared to have your RFAs raided in return. I'd make sure to have Dubois, Werenski, Anderson, and Murray all extended before I went after Matthews.
