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Stupendous Yappi

Any famous last words? Not yet!
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Aug 23, 2018
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I still think this roster, when healthy, can compete for a cup. It will require a complete top to bottom coaching staff change, and you're only going to get that in the offseason. Keep in mind, all we've done is remove Yeo. This is still the exact same staff coaching them, and we are seeing them play the exact same type of game they were, albeit a little more forechecking. That is why I have no faith that we are going to see some long win streak at some point. There needs to be a complete system change where we actually try to drive possession instead of dump, chase, get back on D.
I'm surprised to read this from anyone. I'm as optimistic as they come, but I can't believe that.
 

Brian39

Registered User
Apr 24, 2014
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So to you its all about active streaks?

I would absolutely count CBJ and NAS as teams thst don't spend to the cap and are getting playoff calibur hockey. Im not talking the entire history of any team here. COL and TOR are primed to have a lot of playoff hockey and neither are spending a ton of money. Obviously, your chances increase with spending and adding good talent but if you are spending and not having good talent, why support that?

You think no matter how bad the Blues are the fans should pay a ton to see them but you cant cause you don't live there. K.

The discussion was about consistency, not single season performance.

Toronto had a higher cap hit than any team in the league last year. Part of that was due to LTIR, but they are absolutely not a budget team. They were top-10 against the cap in the 2 seasons before that. They are going to be right up against the cap next year when they have to pay Matthews, Marner and Kapanan, which is exactly why they are leaving themselves cap space at the moment: ELC bonuses for those guys. All those guys are going to get a couple million in bonuses this year that are currently not being counted against the cap. Toronto is making sure they have cap space now so they don't have to apply bonus overages to next season's hit when Matthews/Marner are going to combine for $12-20 mil in raises. By year's end, I'd bet money that they are near the cap once bonuses are factored in.

Nashville was $2.5 mil shy of the ceiling last year and $3.5 shy the year before. IMO, they are the gold standard of cap management in the current NHL (and also got super lucky that Ellis, Ekholm and Josi all improved after signing longish term deals).

Colorado isn't spending much and hasn't been spending much. They have also in no way been a consistent 1st/2nd round playoff team in that span. They look primed to become a consistent playoff team over the next few years, at which point they owe a massive raise to Rantanen coming of his ELC, decent-to-large raises to Kerfoot/Girard/Compher, will owe some modest raises to some other guys and a big raise to Barrie in a couple seasons.

Columbus will make the playoffs for the 3rd straight year by being a budget team. Before that they missed the playoffs 2 straight years and 6 out of 7 years before that. They also had the only goalie in the league to win 2 Vezinas during that stretch. After this year, they will either be a cap team or will lose a substantial amount of talent and the jury is out on whether they will continue to be a playoff team.

There are very, very few teams who have had consistent playoff appearances without spending at/near the cap. Among those who have, I think there is exactly 1 who has been considered an actual contender to win more than a round. I'm all for shedding salary this year in order to save ownership money in a lost season. But moving forward, you need to be willing to spend near the cap to have sustained success. You can ride ELCs to a successful couple seasons with a low payroll, but you need to be willing to buck up when the raises come due.
 

steinerecliner

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May 15, 2018
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I'm surprised to read this from anyone. I'm as optimistic as they come, but I can't believe that.

I can, because that what EVERYONE was saying going into the start of the season. All the experts and ext all said this is a top level team in talent. The problem is there is no leadership to drive the ship and Yeo clearly wasn't the right choice to take over Hitch. You need a coach that gets the players motivated night after night, make them hungry and want the cup. DA is to blame for picking the coach and the staff. Unless you change the staff they players game won't change until the game plan does. Moving out Yeo and moving the same coaches in new spots doesn't fix it. They need to find a coach with a track record of success. Yeo really didn't have much of that.

Stillman has no issue spending to the cap. I like that about him, but he needs to hold DA more accountable on how he spends it. When the team as fallen as fast as it did, its on him because he made the roster moves and coaching moves. When those things don't work and for whatever reason the players half ass games on nights. Someone needs to be held for why that ever the case.
 

Stupendous Yappi

Any famous last words? Not yet!
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I agree with what he said. I still think coaching would do wonders. I think we need grit also, but coaching would make us at least compete.
You said right there you think the Blues need roster changes. He's saying WITH THIS ROSTER and a coaching change alone. If Doug Armstrong were to do that (go into next season with the same roster and a new coach only) people would be ready to run him out of town.
 

TruBlu

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Feb 7, 2016
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You said right there you think the Blues need roster changes. He's saying WITH THIS ROSTER and a coaching change alone. If Doug Armstrong were to do that (go into next season with the same roster and a new coach only) people would be ready to run him out of town.
You don't think a team with ROR, Tarasenko, Petro, Schwartz, Schenn, Parayko, Fabbri, Perron, and Edmundson can't at least be competitive for a cup? There are a lot of other teams that are currently in playoff position doing it with a lot less. There will be roster changes simply because we have people coming off the books, and those will actually be addition by subtraction by my pov. I just don't see a current NHL level system in place. The game plan is exploited night in and night out.
 

Stupendous Yappi

Any famous last words? Not yet!
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You don't think a team with ROR, Tarasenko, Petro, Schwartz, Schenn, Parayko, Fabbri, Perron, and Edmundson can't at least be competitive for a cup? There are a lot of other teams that are currently in playoff position doing it with a lot less. There will be roster changes simply because we have people coming off the books, and those will actually be addition by subtraction by my pov. I just don't see a current NHL level system in place. The game plan is exploited night in and night out.
The players you listed are not a complete roster. You haven't mentioned who is in goal. You haven't mentioned whose playing the left side defense after Edmundson. I was responding to a statement that THIS ROSTER could compete for a Cup with changing only the coach. After what we've seen the past 2 season, I'm surprised there are still fans that think this. But maybe there are more of those fans than I realize.
 

TruBlu

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Feb 7, 2016
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The players you listed are not a complete roster. You haven't mentioned who is in goal. You haven't mentioned whose playing the left side defense after Edmundson. I was responding to a statement that THIS ROSTER could compete for a Cup with changing only the coach. After what we've seen the past 2 season, I'm surprised there are still fans that think this. But maybe there are more of those fans than I realize.
Even THIS roster changes on a nightly basis. The team is absolutely capable of competing for a cup. We've seen great streaks of offense, defense, and goaltending this year. They just don't ever hardly happen on the same night (much of which I blame on the system and a lack of ability to adjust the gameplan when we start getting exploited). I'm not sure what your point is, other than you want the roster different than what it is, I'm merely saying the talent is there. You also mention the past two seasons. This roster changed drastically this last preseason.
 

Stupendous Yappi

Any famous last words? Not yet!
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Even THIS roster changes on a nightly basis. The team is absolutely capable of competing for a cup. We've seen great streaks of offense, defense, and goaltending this year. They just don't ever hardly happen on the same night (much of which I blame on the system and a lack of ability to adjust the gameplan when we start getting exploited). I'm not sure what your point is, other than you want the roster different than what it is, I'm merely saying the talent is there.
I have said nothing about what I want. What I said was, "I'm surprised there are still fans that think they can compete for the Cup with this roster."

Reading this board, I thought most people were pretty adamant that there need to be some changes. Watching this group on the ice, I find it hard to convince myself they are a coach away from being a top tier team. Before the season started, I thought they would be. But this season has been a sober realization that isn't the case. I think we've overestimated our talent on defense, and we don't have a starting caliber goalie (yes, he has stretches that are good, but his body of work over a season is one of the worst in the league).
 

TruBlu

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Feb 7, 2016
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I have said nothing about what I want. What I said was, "I'm surprised there are still fans that think they can compete for the Cup with this roster."

Reading this board, I thought most people were pretty adamant that there need to be some changes. Watching this group on the ice, I find it hard to convince myself they are a coach away from being a top tier team. Before the season started, I thought they would be. But this season has been a sober realization that isn't the case. I think we've overestimated our talent on defense, and we don't have a starting caliber goalie (yes, he has stretches that are good, but his body of work over a season is one of the worst in the league).
I'm not disagreeing with your points, but the core group of players is a capable group. The roster is going to change after this season, so we will see some change, but a new system would do wonders. We are basically running a variation of Hitch's system, and when the shit hits the fan, we completely revert to Hitch's dump and chase. Hitch was much better at running it and making adjustments than Yeo was. Last night was a good example of us hemming the Oilers in and then they made adjustments and tilted the momentum back on their side. Every single game we play seems to go that way. We either start out lost, or we start out strong, adjustments are made by the other team, and then we completely fail to adjust...literally every game.
 

ChuckLefley

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Jan 5, 2016
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Considering what this fan base has had to endure over the past 50+ years? Yeah buddy, It's Cup or bust. Blues have spent enough time building, tearing down, rebuilding and sucking.

If Stillman is spending to the Cap, it has to be Cup or bust and he needs people around him with that mindset and sense of urgency. I keep hearing how great our players are and if that's the truth then why are we at the bottom of the ranks?

Right now I'd rather have a team of decent skilled players with more heart and drive than a couple elite players who have either forgotten how to play the game or for some odd reason can't play together. This team lacks resolve and it's an ongoing problem.
Wow, way to miss the point completely! You implied that the only way an owner is different is if they win The Cup. I showed how that is false and now you respond talking about what the goal should be. You’ve either moved the goalposts or couldn’t remember what’s you said and how I responded.
 

topshelf331

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May 8, 2003
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You said right there you think the Blues need roster changes. He's saying WITH THIS ROSTER and a coaching change alone. If Doug Armstrong were to do that (go into next season with the same roster and a new coach only) people would be ready to run him out of town.


I also said a coaching alone would make us compete.
 

Stupendous Yappi

Any famous last words? Not yet!
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I also said a coaching alone would make us compete.
Right. This is why I said there are more Blues fans who think this than I realized (that a coaching change alone would make this roster competitive). I don't believe it. (Who cares what I think.) But more importantly, I don't think Armstrong or Stillman believe it now.
 

Pizza!Pizza!

Registered User
Sep 25, 2018
4,716
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Its on a decline (obviously).

If we are to believe this site: 2018-2019 NHL Attendance - National Hockey League - ESPN

The only teams with worse home attendance (by % filled) are - in order:

Columbus
Arizona
Ottawa
Florida
Carolina
New York Islanders



NYI has had historically and consistently bad attendance for years. Theres always excuses but they have been bad even before Barclays and with Tavares.


But back to the Blues, spending to the cap and I am glad the fans are showing they won't go if the team sucks. Something's got to give. Either re tool or complete rebuild.

Financially, I don't see how the Blues do it.
My friend watches the team's Forbes valuation so he knows which powerball tickets to buy. He said this year's list shows the Blues have dropped $35million in valuation from last year.

I was at the game Wednesday and the crowd looked decent in the lower bowls, but a lot of empty seats up top. I really want to buy season tickets next year but don't want to support the team with the current roster/management. Maybe if I send enough emails to the sales rep about "I'll only buy box seats if Tarasenko and Allen are gone before the season ends" someone will say something at the office Christmas party and Army will overhear and it will plant the seed.
 
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GoldenSeal

Believe In The Note
Dec 1, 2013
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Wow, way to miss the point completely! You implied that the only way an owner is different is if they win The Cup. I showed how that is false and now you respond talking about what the goal should be. You’ve either moved the goalposts or couldn’t remember what’s you said and how I responded.

Your point makes no sense when dealing with the Blues and their history, which was where my comments began; It is FILLED with the kind of nonsense we're seeing from the squad today. Take ANY decade and after a moment you'll notice the exact same or similar pattern.

What you're talking about would work if Stillman has a quality GM that can make the moves to put this team over the top and Armstrong has proven again and again that he can acquire players for a retool or rebuild but can not get them the pieces to put them over the top. I'm not saying that Stillman should GM the team but he damn well needs to be involved with the day-to-day operations to see what the team needs, what the team is neglecting and what they need to improve and it has to be more than just listening to whatever Doug Armstrong says; listening to one voice is why we're where we're at AGAIN. If I'm spending 70+ Million Dollars a year on just players, you'd better believe I'd be involved on a daily basis and you'd be too.

You also neglected my point about the fan base. They could easily do something else but have stuck beside the Blues and they deserve a Cup after all the nonsense the Blues have encountered for 50+ years. Honestly, with their history, I'm surprised the team hasn't been moved yet, that alone is the testament of the loyalty of fans, not the quality of the franchise and that should be a big red flag to any owner because the moment the fans waver, this team is done.
 

TheDizee

Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
Apr 5, 2014
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can you blame them?

ticket prices are too high as it is, throw in a god awful and soft team and yeah i wouldnt pay a penny to watch these clowns play.
 
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ChuckLefley

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
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Your point makes no sense when dealing with the Blues and their history, which was where my comments began; It is FILLED with the kind of nonsense we're seeing from the squad today. Take ANY decade and after a moment you'll notice the exact same or similar pattern.

What you're talking about would work if Stillman has a quality GM that can make the moves to put this team over the top and Armstrong has proven again and again that he can acquire players for a retool or rebuild but can not get them the pieces to put them over the top. I'm not saying that Stillman should GM the team but he damn well needs to be involved with the day-to-day operations to see what the team needs, what the team is neglecting and what they need to improve and it has to be more than just listening to whatever Doug Armstrong says; listening to one voice is why we're where we're at AGAIN. If I'm spending 70+ Million Dollars a year on just players, you'd better believe I'd be involved on a daily basis and you'd be too.

You also neglected my point about the fan base. They could easily do something else but have stuck beside the Blues and they deserve a Cup after all the nonsense the Blues have encountered for 50+ years. Honestly, with their history, I'm surprised the team hasn't been moved yet, that alone is the testament of the loyalty of fans, not the quality of the franchise and that should be a big red flag to any owner because the moment the fans waver, this team is done.
You’re still moving away from what you said, which is that this ownership is still the same as all of the others before it. I pointed out that it wasn’t, you switched to winning Cups and now you’re talking about GM’s.

Honestly, if you are going to keep moving goalposts than go to the asylum and post.
 

Ranksu

Crotch Academy ftw
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Apr 28, 2014
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Is there stats by games how many people were at attendance? Like to search how Blues attendance stats has changed in this season.
 

KingBran

Three Eyed Raven
Apr 24, 2014
6,436
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The players you listed are not a complete roster. You haven't mentioned who is in goal. You haven't mentioned whose playing the left side defense after Edmundson. I was responding to a statement that THIS ROSTER could compete for a Cup with changing only the coach. After what we've seen the past 2 season, I'm surprised there are still fans that think this. But maybe there are more of those fans than I realize.
That is kind of where I am at.

I agree the quoted roster would COMPETE for a cup there is a giant hole at the G position. Shore up a few dudes on D and we just might be there.
 

m1a2lt

Registered User
Jul 13, 2009
1,376
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According to ESPN, the Blues are currently 25th in the NHL for home attendance (88.2%) but 100% for road attendance??? (guess people like to see their team win?). This puts them 23rd in the NHL. However, they are 9th overall for total attendance (~287k), about ~30k ahead of Winnipeg with the same number of home games (though I assume Winnipeg's tickets are substantially more expensive).
 

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