Atlanta Thrashers

[AtlantaWhaler]

http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/lawsuit-thrashers-owners-have-been-trying-to-sell-/nQpwh/

Bam...well ****. There it is. Part of the rumblings was Seattle, but take that with a tiny grain of salt. Again...rumor.

 

[Killion]

Ya, I remember when the AJC published that story, stamping paid to the lies being told by Levenson & others. Publicly available court filings absolutely refuting his remonstrations to the opposite that ASG hadnt even thought about much less discussed the jettisoning of the Thrashers off-market. Not only had they done so and at length, they even had destinations in mind, that the 04/05 Lockout & CBA would result in a quick sale to a smaller one at that. But no, here you have this genius telling a reporter "we have no intention of selling the franchise for relocation as were not even allowed to do that as per our agreements with the NHL" yadda yadda yadda. What a Maroon. From what rock did these people slither out from under?

 

[NSHPreds1835]

Ya, I remember when the AJC published that story, stamping paid to the lies being told by Levenson & others. Publicly available court filings absolutely refuting his remonstrations to the opposite that ASG hadnt even thought about much less discussed the jettisoning of the Thrashers off-market. Not only had they done so and at length, they even had destinations in mind, that the 04/05 Lockout & CBA would result in a quick sale to a smaller one at that. But no, here you have this genius telling a reporter "we have no intention of selling the franchise for relocation as were not even allowed to do that as per our agreements with the NHL" yadda yadda yadda. What a Maroon. From what rock did these people slither out from under?

If there is ever a book written on how NOT to run a sports franchise the ASG would be the perfect example.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Congrats on the Mod position! Now, go delete everyone in the Business Forum!

Thanks, and I'm working on it

 

[Killion]

Thanks, and I'm working on it

Yepp. Might wanna change that Location from Cary to the The Triangle in yer avy. Picture of 5 US Navy TBM Avengers and "Remember Flight 19?. December 1945? No?. Look it Up in Wiki.". Bermuda. Triangles a triangle. Gone Baby Gone.

 

[Bongo]

For a clear picture of what the NHL thought of the team just go to the search box on the official site and type in Atlanta Thrashers.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Yepp. Might wanna change that Location from Cary to the The Triangle in yer avy. Picture of 5 US Navy TBM Avengers and "Remember Flight 19?. December 1945? No?. Look it Up in Wiki.". Bermuda. Triangles a triangle. Gone Baby Gone.

That's brilliant... definitely making that change.

 

[OrrNumber4]

For a clear picture of what the NHL thought of the team just go to the search box on the official site and type in Atlanta Thrashers.

What am I missing? Looks normaly enough; 1000+ results..

 

[PEIslander]

If there are any old Thrashers fans on here, I'm wondering, what do you think was the main cause that this franchise couldn't make it? Was it poor ownership? Too many bad years? Not enough fan support? After two tries at the NHL, do you think that an NHL team could ever succeed there?

 

[tarheelhockey]

If there are any old Thrashers fans on here, I'm wondering, what do you think was the main cause that this franchise couldn't make it? Was it poor ownership? Too many bad years? Not enough fan support? After two tries at the NHL, do you think that an NHL team could ever succeed there?

I wasn't a Thrashers fan, but here are my thoughts:

1) The overwhelming biggest factor was that they didn't have a committed ownership group. The Atlanta Spirit conglomeration always saw the team as a disposable asset, from Day 1. It's sad, really. Imagine someone buying your favorite team with the intent to get rid of them. Sucks.

That lack of commitment meant doom for the Thrashers, no matter what they or the fans did. The only reason it took so long to kill them off was that Atlanta Spirit couldn't sell the team as long as they were busy suing themselves, which they seemed to rather enjoy doing.

2) In some hypothetical world where the ownership was actually willing to cultivate the team long-term, it's still hard for a new team to make waves in a big market when they're just terrible all the time. Atlanta's a tough market for pro sports anyway, and the Thrashers didn't give their fans much to work with. Their diehards were as good as any, but there was just no bandwagon whatsoever because the team was never competing for anything.

Could the NHL succeed there? Absolutely. It could be a Dallas-like or San Jose-like story, never a marquee hockey market but certainly part of a solid foundation. There's nothing different about Atlanta that would prevent that. But it's hard to imagine the league ever going back, now that the well has been poisoned and the fields have been salted.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

I wasn't a Thrashers fan, but here are my thoughts:

1) The overwhelming biggest factor was that they didn't have a committed ownership group. The Atlanta Spirit conglomeration always saw the team as a disposable asset, from Day 1. It's sad, really. Imagine someone buying your favorite team with the intent to get rid of them. Sucks.

That lack of commitment meant doom for the Thrashers, no matter what they or the fans did. The only reason it took so long to kill them off was that Atlanta Spirit couldn't sell the team as long as they were busy suing themselves, which they seemed to rather enjoy doing.

2) In some hypothetical world where the ownership was actually willing to cultivate the team long-term, it's still hard for a new team to make waves in a big market when they're just terrible all the time. Atlanta's a tough market for pro sports anyway, and the Thrashers didn't give their fans much to work with. Their diehards were as good as any, but there was just no bandwagon whatsoever because the team was never competing for anything.

Could the NHL succeed there? Absolutely. It could be a Dallas-like or San Jose-like story, never a marquee hockey market but certainly part of a solid foundation. There's nothing different about Atlanta that would prevent that. But it's hard to imagine the league ever going back, now that the well has been poisoned and the fields have been salted.

The traffic situation and drive to games regardless of where the arena is is worse than Arizona's. I'd much rather drive from Scottsdale to Glendale than get into downtown ATL from any of the decent locations in the Atlanta area.

I knew Levinsons kid in college a little bit they weren't hockey people from trying to talk hockey with him there was clearly little/no interest in the team.


Bad sports town and the hockey people living there likely already had a team and didn't want to change over to the Thrashers.


Mind you put a decent product on the ice and they do probably outdraw the Hawks but are still an NHL sick puppy. Its that bad a sports town. No clue what the Braves are thinking with their new stadium.

 

[Rhodes 81]

The traffic situation and drive to games regardless of where the arena is is worse than Arizona's. I'd much rather drive from Scottsdale to Glendale than get into downtown ATL from any of the decent locations in the Atlanta area.

I knew Levinsons kid in college a little bit they weren't hockey people from trying to talk hockey with him there was clearly little/no interest in the team.


Bad sports town and the hockey people living there likely already had a team and didn't want to change over to the Thrashers.


Mind you put a decent product on the ice and they do probably outdraw the Hawks but are still an NHL sick puppy. Its that bad a sports town. No clue what the Braves are thinking with their new stadium.

The Braves are moving from south Atlanta to north Atlanta because most of the people that go to games are from the northern suburbs and literally can't get to games on weekdays. Not to mention they are moving from a forsaken dump area the city has ignored for decades to one of the nicest parts of town.

I don't think people that haven't experienced it really understand just how bad traffic is in Atlanta. LA is the only city in the country that's worse. Traffic really is the biggest factor in why all ATL teams draw poorly on week nights.

People like to rag on Atlanta sports fans, but we've had 1 professional championship in something like 170 professional seasons in the NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB combined. The city is cursed with mediocrity.

 

[Big Phil]

If there are any old Thrashers fans on here, I'm wondering, what do you think was the main cause that this franchise couldn't make it? Was it poor ownership? Too many bad years? Not enough fan support? After two tries at the NHL, do you think that an NHL team could ever succeed there?

Not a Thrashers fan, or wasn't at least. I think it is all of the above personally. I know there are those that disagree with this, but Atlanta is not a place for hockey, and it showed.

 

[Doctor No]

I know there are those that disagree with this, but Atlanta is not a place for hockey, and it showed.

Whether or not Atlanta is a "place for hockey", we haven't seen a fair test yet.

It'd be like you giving me a pair of loaded dice, and then blaming my abilities for not being able to win at craps.

It's a hell of a lot harder to be a diehard Atlanta fan than, say, a Toronto fan (even with their recent struggles).

 

[tarheelhockey]

I don't think people that haven't experienced it really understand just how bad traffic is in Atlanta.

This is true. Atlanta traffic isn't just traffic, it's a daily civic disaster. It's hard to even describe. A city where you HAVE to drive, and driving even a short distance is a rage-inducing nightmare.

I've been stuck for 3+ hours in regular, non-event related traffic there. I've gotten off the highway and gone shopping as a way of waiting out traffic jams. I've seen people racing Fast & Furious style through bumper-to-bumper traffic jams. I've been tailgated by an 18-wheeler at 70mph in a rainstorm with ten feet of visibility.

It's insane.

It's a hell of a lot harder to be a diehard Atlanta fan than, say, a Toronto fan

This is another thing that I don't think people from established markets can easily relate to. It's one thing to be a fan of a losing team in a historic hockey town with a long winning tradition. Being a fan of a losing, 8-year-old franchise which has no tradition at all... that's a completely different experience. It's not Atlanta's fault that they were stuck with a team which basically just took their money and gave them nothing but bad memories.

 

[Doctor No]

This is true. Atlanta traffic isn't just traffic, it's a daily civic disaster. It's hard to even describe. A city where you HAVE to drive, and driving even a short distance is a rage-inducing nightmare.

I've been stuck for 3+ hours in regular, non-event related traffic there. I've gotten off the highway and gone shopping as a way of waiting out traffic jams. I've seen people racing Fast & Furious style through bumper-to-bumper traffic jams. I've been tailgated by an 18-wheeler at 70mph in a rainstorm with ten feet of visibility.

It's insane.

There's significant cursing, so I can't link to it here, but Lewis Black does a phenomenal stand-up bit on Atlanta traffic.

 

[BayStreetBully]

I don't know the ins and outs of what happened, but from an outsider's perspective (and as someone who visits Georgia yearly):

1) Bad timing. The Thrashers entered the NHL just as it was entering both the post-Gretzky era, and also the Dead Puck Era. Earlier expansion teams like San Jose/Ottawa/Tampa/Florida/Anaheim got to witness a part of Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Yzerman, Hull, Lindros, Bourque, Coffey, Roy, Hasek in their glory, in what may have possibly been the greatest collection of iconic talent ever. These stars were just more iconic than their successors, and played in a higher scoring era as well. Atlanta didn't get any of that. By the time Atlanta entered the NHL, most stars weren't even getting PPG anymore. The product was arguably more boring than ever from 1999-2011. Certainly by the early 2000's.

2) Bad luck with draft picks. 1999 was a terrible year to get the 1st overall pick. Stefan couldn't have been any worse. And Heatley would have been a great pick in 2000, if not for the tragic car accident and his eventual departure to Ottawa. Kovalchuk was good, but I think Heatley would have been so much more marketable to the Atlanta market. The team probably would have won more, if the Kovalchuk-Heatley duo remained a thing for an entire decade. And oftentimes, it just comes down to winning.

3) This is just from my personal and limited experience, but it seems like Atlanta, like the rest of the South, cares about college football first and foremost, with everything else an afterthought. Even the Falcons are second fiddle to the SEC teams in that state like the Bulldogs, let alone the Thrashers. It's a great sports state that channels its energy into college football rather than hockey. That said, as tarheel mentioned, Atlanta still could have been a solid part of the NHL.

I have a soft spot for the Thrashers just because I visit Georgia so often. I'd rather Atlanta have a team than any other current non-NHL city. It would've been nice if THEY were the ones granted an expansion team now instead of Vegas. But I'd understand if it's a while before the NHL returns.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

After two tries at the NHL, do you think that an NHL team could ever succeed there?

The first try, there are rumors that Tom Cousins sold because he discovered the other owners were illegally dipping into the NHL Players Pension, and they wanted him gone because he refused to partake. Like the sole cop that refuses to take bribes takes a normal turn on the way home, and suddenly there are 4 masked men with baseball bats waiting to pull him into the alley.....

Anyway, Heatley demanding to be released was the turning point IMO, they had to trade their young superstar winger for spare parts and Marian Hossa, who was turned into....spare parts.

It's a shame Heatley couldn't conquer his guilt, Dan Snyder's family, the Thrashers org all bent over backwards to accommodate him and he couldn't handle it.

That said, what the others said above is true. ASG wanted to turn them for a quick profit because they figured the CBA and cost certainty would cause an increase in franchise values, but this was belayed on account of the group suing the only member that had money. With that deadweight out of the picture, ASG needed quick cash and TSNE was there to provide. Barring the Thrashers becoming a dynasty that was top-5 in attendance, they were doomed from the second ASG got their mittens on the team.

They are snakes....they see that the Clippers owner gets "forced" out of the League to the tune of three quarters of a billion dollars, and suddenly emails miraculously surface about how ASG IS ALSO RACIST....yeah, nice one fellahs, never too quick to take the most money.

 

[BenchBrawl]

They will be remembered to the same degree Ilya Kovalchuk will be remembered, and to a lesser extent Dany Heatley, as they're about the only things of note to happen with that franchise.But Dany Heatley had his best years in Ottawa, so it really boils down to Kovalchuk who spent almost all his prime years in Atlanta.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

I think they'll be remembered as the Rockies are: the team that relocated before the franchise found a more stable home.

 

[Houston Penguin]

Moved to Atlanta after they were gone and to Houston after the AHL left. Maybe I need to warn teams when I'm coming a few years in advance lol.

Atlanta was ripe for the NHL taking on like Dallas did. None of the teams around them were doing much and had they succeeded in winning and getting the local community involved, I think they would still be there.

It makes NO sense that Atlanta and Houston for that matter do not have even an AHL, much less and NHL team!

 

[PEIslander]

I'm surprised that the NHL gave up so quickly on Atlanta. Now that Las Vegas has a team, it seems to me that Seattle, Houston and Atlanta would be the NHL's most desirable markets. With the right ownership and commitment from the NHL, I think Atlanta could work.

 

[varano]

I'm surprised that the NHL gave up so quickly on Atlanta. Now that Las Vegas has a team, it seems to me that Seattle, Houston and Atlanta would be the NHL's most desirable markets. With the right ownership and commitment from the NHL, I think Atlanta could work.

They got the flames and they got the thrashers...Fool me once...

Seattle will never get an NHL team. You can hear the hate in bettmans voice for seattle after they basically said that they don't want the NHL team unless they have the NBA team first. Bettman doesn't want to be second banana.

I'm skeptical on Houston....Dallas isn't really a hockey metropolis, why go to houston.

From what I understand, other than quebec of course, Kansas City has better odds than any of them.

 

[Doctor No]

They got the flames and they got the thrashers...Fool me once...

You might not get fooled at all if you'd investigate the facts (many of which have been outlined in this thread).

But never mind that - let's torch the entire South because the Thrashers had a terrible ownership group.

 

[Terry Yake]

did the NHL really "give up" on ATL? or was it 100% on ASG for the move?

but it's safe to say that the NHL didn't even put in nearly half the effort to save the thrashers than they do regularly to save the coyotes.

but barring a miracle, ATL won't be getting another NHL franchise ever again. losing two teams will do that. the support is there but it's just too small