Athletic’s Corey Pronman ranks his top U-23 players

[strattonius]

Thats one of the few things he got right with this list. Dahlin is the best young defenseman in the league. Don't blame Buffalo's ineptitude on him.

How has he separated himself from that other group of defensemen?

I know Buffalo isn't an ideal environment; but Hughes turned in to a 22+min #1 d man; Heiskanen carried the heaviest minutes and responsibilities in a very impressive playoff run; and Makar was on pace for 60+ pts and won the Calder.

Dahlin is a very smooth defenseman and I see a great career - I just don't see how he's separated from this group so much. Seems he's being over-hyped.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

How has he separated himself from that other group of defensemen?

I know Buffalo isn't an ideal environment; but Hughes turned in to a 22+min #1 d man; Heiskanen carried the heaviest minutes and responsibilities in a very impressive playoff run; and Makar was on pace for 60+ pts and won the Calder.

Dahlin is a very smooth defenseman and I see a great career - I just don't see how he's separated from this group so much. Seems he's being over-hyped.

You said he will have to take a big step to be with the three listed. The reputations of those players went up in the playoffs. You wouldn't have said what you did prior to the playoffs. As I said, don't blame Dahlin for his team's ineptitude.

 

[strattonius]

You said he will have to take a big step to be with the three listed. The reputations of those players went up in the playoffs. You wouldn't have said what you did prior to the playoffs. As I said, don't blame Dahlin for his team's ineptitude.

Makar and Hughes proved throughout the season they are already dominant defensemen. Heiskanen's elite 2 way play was highlighted in the playoffs - it didn't just magically appear.

I'll ask again, what has Dahlin showed to elevate him past these 3 defensemen? At this point there's not much of an argument outside of draft position.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

I think you can justify some of the picks (i.e. Matthews, Pettersson, Dahlin) because there is already some NHL production to lean on and it comes down to who will grow even more from there.

However, I'm not sure how Heiskanen, Makar, and Q. Hughes don't make it over Kakko, Lafreniere, and Byfield. That's too much wishful thinking without proven success in the NHL.

I do think Laf will make it, but that's a huge assumption to make with other young prospects including guys that weren't guaranteed #1 picks in their drafts.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I have no issue with the number one and two on his list.

Dahlin should still be considered the safest bet to be the top defenceman in the league some day. If he doesn’t take strides next season perhaps the conversation shifts, but right now I still think he can eventually be that dude.

 

[joe dirte]

Heiskanen at #14 is ludacrious. Did he sleep through the playoffs?
#1 Heiskanen
#2 Pettersson
#3 Makar
#4 Matthews
#5 Q.Hughes

Heiskanen had an incredible playoffs but so did John Druce one year. Justin Williams has churned out a few. It's still a small stretch of games. He's a hell of a young dman though, but no, definiteily not where you have him. And Pettersson at 2 is just as silly.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah perhaps, but in that case just make a separate list for goalies. Just looks awful with guys like Chytil, Formenton, Batherson etc. ahead of him, and I only looked at a few.

Agreed. If he's going to make a list with a bias going in against goaltending, then either make a separate list for just goalies, or exclude goalies altogether so that you don't get situations like Hart being rated lower than guys who might never be more than bottom six forwards (and that's assuming they make it long-term, period).

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Tkachuk ten spots above Heiskanen? As a Flames fan just lol

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Matthews is a splendid goalscorer. But his hockey IQ is just average and he doesn't offer much in terms of playmaking.

I don't see Matthews as the kind of guy to lead a team to a Stanley Cup.

I don't think anyone who scores at Matthews' rate can be said to lack hockey IQ. Goal scoring, and knowing how to put yourself in a position to consistently get those shots off, is part of having high IQ. Otherwise every player who has a wicked shot would score 40+ goals, which isn't the case.

I'd agree Matthews doesn't have elite playmaking vision of the guys at the top like McDavid, Crosby, Kucherov, etc., but I don't think that's the same as hockey IQ.

 

[joe dirte]

Guy rates Jost's skating with 55 and Cale Makar's with a 60. Makar is one of the best skaters in the game. Jost is at best painfully average for a guy of his size. I think this tells you everything.

I have no idea how this hot take artist got the gig he has.

Pronman has some interesting takes, and he definitely has his preferences in terms of what he likes in a player. He's a pure speed and skill guy.

I find a lot of his rankings a little crazy, but I respect the fact that he doesn't follow the crowd and writes what he thinks, regardless of whether it follows the crowd's thinking or not. He definitely brings a different perspective to the table and I think his stuff is worth reading, even if you don't agree. And I rarely agree with him.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Makar and Hughes proved throughout the season they are already dominant defensemen. Heiskanen's elite 2 way play was highlighted in the playoffs - it didn't just magically appear.

I'll ask again, what has Dahlin showed to elevate him past these 3 defensemen? At this point there's not much of an argument outside of draft position.

I personally think when you combine his full game, he has the best combination of all the skills needed. He’s done very well with putting up points his first two seasons, as well, but he plays on a terrible team. He can only do so much, and he’s misused. I think he’s separated himself from some of the top young defensemen, not all, but I also think he has the most potential of any young defensemen in the league

 

[joe dirte]

I don't think anyone who scores at Matthews' rate can be said to lack hockey IQ. Goal scoring, and knowing how to put yourself in a position to consistently get those shots off, is part of having high IQ. Otherwise every player who has a wicked shot would score 40+ goals, which isn't the case.

I'd agree Matthews doesn't have elite playmaking vision of the guys at the top like McDavid, Crosby, Kucherov, etc., but I don't think that's the same as hockey IQ.

you should see the shot zone charts for and against with him on the ice from this past season. There is pretty clearly a lot going on there that not everyone is seeing. Matthews pretty severely tilts the ice for the Leafs.

 

[MardyBum]

For me it's perfetti, I like him but he went 10th In his own draft, how can he be top 20 with actual NHL proven talent U23. Maybe as soon as next year it would be justifiable but not a chance right now.

He's really high on Perfetti so it makes perfect sense for him. He doesn't care where a player was drafted if he has them highly ranked.

I don't like these combo lists of NHL talent and prospects, too much projecting done with the prospects.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Matthews is a credible and creative playmaker. He just so happens to be an even better goalscorer.

 

[joe dirte]

He's really high on Perfetti so it makes perfect sense for him. He doesn't care where a player was drafted if he has them highly ranked.

I don't like these combo lists of NHL talent and prospects, too much projecting done with the prospects.

I don't know, there are prospect lists, and under __ age lists, and they both have their purpose. One tells you what kind of talent teams have that can augment their current roster (prospect only list), whereas one is an indicator of all players that may make up the core of a roster in 5 years (under __ age lists).

But yeah, i prefer the prospect lists myself.

 

[DearDiary]

What's worse?

"Journalists" creating clickbait to drive ad revenue and discussion
or
Forum posters arguing against it like it's an official ranking from an expert

 

[thefutures]

He's really high on Perfetti so it makes perfect sense for him. He doesn't care where a player was drafted if he has them highly ranked.

I don't like these combo lists of NHL talent and prospects, too much projecting done with the prospects.

Makes sense, I checked out the entire list and what he wrote about each player so I have some more context now but I agree with you on the mixed list thing.

 

[moropanov]

Matthews is a credible and creative playmaker. He just so happens to be an even better goalscorer.

#1c playing 20 minutes a night scoring 30 assists per season is very bad Playmaking.

 

[Kcb12345]

There are so many things wrong with this list, and it's not just in the top 15. Just awful and likely Pronman is intentionally going out of his way on some of these rankings just to generate discussion about it, and it's working.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

What's worse?

"Journalists" creating clickbait to drive ad revenue and discussion
or
Forum posters arguing against it like it's an official ranking from an expert

What's worse are the takes of said forum posters.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

#1c playing 20 minutes a night scoring 30 assists per season is very bad Playmaking.

He's not the playmaker on his line. What is so hard to understand about that?

 

[strattonius]

I personally think when you combine his full game, he has the best combination of all the skills needed. He’s done very well with putting up points his first two seasons, as well, but he plays on a terrible team. He can only do so much, and he’s misused. I think he’s separated himself from some of the top young defensemen, not all, but I also think he has the most potential of any young defensemen in the league

I think Dahlin might end up having the most balanced career of all these defensemen - but you use excuses of deployment and bring up the word 'potential'. I think we need to see more to put Dahlin ahead of any of those defensemen. And to be clear it wouldn't surprise me if Dahlin hits another gear but I'm not going to rate Kakko higher than Svechnikov by the same logic.

 

[ViD]

Show me that fool who would take J Hughes or Kakko over PLD.

Pronmans ratings are shit towards Columbus as always

 

[moropanov]

He's not the playmaker on his line. What is so hard to understand about that?

And that is what makes him underwhelming as a #1c. Prime Crosby scored 50 goals and 60 assists. Matthews scores 50 goals and 30 assists.

A center is supposed to make plays and support offense. Matthews plays like a winger offensively.

 

[TheNorthStars]

Heiskanen is criminally low on that list.