Injury Report: Athanasiou out 2-3 weeks

[SoupGuru]

It's not an injury that's causing him to play like shit. It's his decision making and effort.

I think it was the last game he played in that I was marveling at how he could manage to get double teamed on the boards during a power play.

 

[MBH]

I think that is true, it also probably the worst effort I have seen out of him to date. If you're hurt you should probably bear down. The way he is playing in the defensive zone isn't going to be going unnoticed around the league unfortunately for us in terms of pro scouts.

We are almost to 300 games in the NHL. His actual ice time is down a mere 18 seconds despite being a dumpster fire. I get that he has had the leg issues, but I am really stunned at some of the excuse making for the guy. We know what he is and what he is about for the most part. Continuing to blame Blashill for the issues AA has is a bit much for me.

He was on his way out of town before last season and we seemed to get a much better version. Now the enigmatic AA has returned under Yzerman and in my opinion has thrown away his clean slate or really positive slate in terms of Yzerman spent time listing him as a core player most of the off-season. Just really disappointed in him. If it is injuries I get that, I don't think Khan has him as probably exiting stage left if that is the case, seems to me he is flunking his audition for Yzerman, it is a shame because he has a lot of talent and is fun to watch when he feels like playing hard.

Audition?
He needs to get out of town and away from Blashill.
He scored 30 goals last year playing largely with Glendening or Nielsen or Hirose or Abdelkader.
They shifted him to center and he scores 15 points in 16 games and was +1 while showing big improvement on faceoffs.
All this kid has ever wanted was the icetime.
And when given it, he's succeeded.

Then this season starts and he's hurt. He goes to center, surprisingly, because I think everyone expected Flip/Nielsen were going to be the 2-3 Cs. After 2-3 games at C, probably with a bad back, he's moved back to the wing - on a soft-as-butter line with Flip and Hirose - a line that anyone with any sense could tell you would have zero chance of being effective against NHL defensemen.
And ever since, he's had a constant parade of mediocre linemates.
The top two players he's played with, in terms of time on ice, are Filppula (247 minutes) and Glendening (121 minutes).
Compare that with Larkin, who has played 580 minutes with Bertuzzi and 280 with Mantha.

Here's the other thing, it's not just AA who's slipped.
AA's goals/60 went from 1.22 to .5
His points/60 went from 1.97 to 1.38.

Larkin is experiencing the same thing.
His goals/60 went from .76 to .46.
His points/60 went from 1.94 to 1.37.

His shots/60 has fallen from 9.9 to 8.4.
His high danger CF/60 from 3.69 to 2.56.

Like AA, Larkin started the season with an injury.

We've seen substantial declines from both our youngish 30-goal men last year.
We've seen the entire team's play fall off the map.

And Yzerman keeps letting Blashill coach this team into oblivion.

 

[Henkka]

It's more of just worse roster playing more in own end. That affects on everybody's stats.

We did lose pretty good veterans who did hold the fortress, and it's foolish to believe that replacement kids would have replaced all what Kronwall, Nyquist and Vanek were able to do. Losing DeKeyser for whole season is another, and Mike Green never being the same player after his liver-virus.

In great teams, positive things tend to add up. Lesser players look better than they are. In bad teams, negative things tend to add up. Good players look worse than they are.

It has probably nothing to do with coaching. It could be just player material. It's just easy to blaim coaching.

But feel free chancing the coach. Nothing will change until the better player material comes.

 

[13to40]

Your logic puts the onus on the coach to play a player that has effort level problems. The onus should be on the player to bring his effort every night, and get rewarded when he demonstrates that consistency.

Imagine trying to apply your logic in the real world.

“Management pays the employees that they think help the success of the company. Sure, this employee slacks off frequently and misses deadlines, but when they do their work, it’s quite good. Management should give this person a higher salary despite the glaring issues with their performance.”

Surely that won’t blow up in management’s face.

I understand your point of view, but this isn’t about paying him more money, it’s about trying to do what’s best for the team with the player. If the player can produce more and can become a big contributor again in another roll with different line mates, then I don’t see a problem.

If you want to compare it to real life and management; management always does what’s best for the company, whether that is increasing sales, upping production, keeping its employees happy, that’s what’s to be debated.
In a league where you’re being judged on wins and losses and you win by scoring goals.... and you have a goal scorer being dumped on a line with grinders instead of other skilled players... doesn’t sound like a good coaching decision to me.

So if you’re wanting to succeed with the player, put him in a better position to succeed. If you don’t like his work ethic (I agree he takes shifts off) and you will burry him down the line up because of it, then the team should be trading him because right now his skill set is being wasted

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Coaches play players that give them a chance to win. Sure his effort level always isn’t 100%, but when he’s dialed in, he can be a force. I believe that with real top 6 minutes and line mates, he would/could/should produce at the same rate he ended last year.

Nah, you could play him 22 minutes a night on the top line with first unit PP and PK duties and you would just make up a new set of excuses for him.

 

[13to40]

Nah, you could play him 22 minutes a night on the top line with first unit PP and PK duties and you would just make up a new set of excuses for him.

Great input...

And if he would be on the PK, it would mean he’s working very hard backchecking


I’m not at all an AA fan. This is a hockey forums where people discuss and share a piece of their mind lol

 

[SoupGuru]

Yes, let's give the guys playing like crap more ice time and demote the ones that are playing well. Why didn't we ever think of this?! I hope they start doing this at work, too!

 

[Oddbob]

I have never seen a player have more excuses made for not playing well. "Oh, it's the coach!", "Oh it's the usage!", "Oh, it's the linemates!", "Oh, it's the injuries!", "Oh it's the diaper filled with poop!", "Oh, it's that Joe Louis Arena is getting torn down!", "Oh, it's that Jeff Blashill lost 4 and half hairs on his head!", Oh, it's that we turn off the lights when we score at home now!" ENOUGH with the excuses, prove it time has long arrived for AA, and he is failing all on his own, and miserable at that!

 

[avssuc]

God dang it man. I'll be surprised if he fetches more than a 3rd round pick. This was a miss, failed oppertunitty on Yzermans part. The first real mistake I'm actually upset with him about.

I'm genuinely upset. Holding out and not making a move within Dec/Nov cost a TON of value trade wise. Might as well almost make him go through the motions at this point and see if he'll sign his RFA offer next year, because I'm not sure any team will be willing to sign him to big money long-term at this point.

Only scape-goat I'm giving him is that other teams might not of been willing to pull the trigger early.

I think Holland got more room for error from most here. Dude, AA wasn't doing himself any favors in Nov and Dec 2019 after being a 30 goal scorer less than a year ago. If you think Yzerman is at fault for anticipating he'd return to form, then I really don't know what to say other than I'll bookmark this for the trade deadline.

 

[Snuggs]

I think Holland got more room for error from most here. Dude, AA wasn't doing himself any favors in Nov and Dec 2019 after being a 30 goal scorer less than a year ago. If you think Yzerman is at fault for anticipating he'd return to form, then I really don't know what to say other than I'll bookmark this for the trade deadline.

Whoa, easy, I'm not saying fire him! Lol. You guys kill me sometimes how sensitive you are to criticizing someone. I'm just saying I'm upset(at the situation not really Yzerman) and am saying it was a missed opportunity to trade him earlier in the season.

I'm not here suggesting like, Yzerman should of known! or... He should be fired! or... Yzerman's terrible. I'm just saying it' was a missed opportunity on Yzerman's part, and now we'll likely have to settle for less something around 3rd round value.

I'm just pissed AA is hurt now cause, now unless he comes back and rips in a goal every other game or something his value doesn't have much time to rise before the TDL.

 

[avssuc]

I'd actually prefer if it was rigged. I think the NHL would love to get the Wings back to being a contender.

If it were rigged, wouldn't the NHL be more concerned with revenue? Wouldn't it most likely be a less efficient business model if the draft weren't rigged? Obviously storylines play in, and the Wings have great history, but rival TV markets in the large coastal areas should probably be better financially for the league revenue sharing. NY and NJ with the top 2 last year, maybe Anaheim and LA this year. Maybe they toss the Sens or Habs in the top 3 too, just to keep the suspense going as the French-Canadian stud prospect sits at the top of the heap as they reveal the draft order. Should be interesting if the Leafs miss the playoffs, might want to keep an eye on their ping pong bounces (since their 1st round pick is top 10 protected).

If it were rigged, there's only one reason to risk it, and it's the same reason why all of the owners would permit it.

 

[Winger98]

Yes, let's give the guys playing like crap more ice time and demote the ones that are playing well. Why didn't we ever think of this?! I hope they start doing this at work, too!

If we're demoting all the crap guys we're losing the majority of the team. Sorta, maybe, half joking. With AA, I'm not really for rewarding him for playing like crap. At the same time, if he's lobbying for more minutes and responsibility...at some point I'd be tempted to just throw him out there for ~20 minutes a night on the top line and tell him to back it up for the rest of the season. This isn't a good team regardless, and it's not like he's got great trade value anyway. If he tanks, well, his next contract would be even cheaper. If the guy takes a 30 game audition and really runs with it, though...well, that's not the worst thing, either.

I think that is true, it also probably the worst effort I have seen out of him to date. If you're hurt you should probably bear down. The way he is playing in the defensive zone isn't going to be going unnoticed around the league unfortunately for us in terms of pro scouts.

We are almost to 300 games in the NHL. His actual ice time is down a mere 18 seconds despite being a dumpster fire. I get that he has had the leg issues, but I am really stunned at some of the excuse making for the guy. We know what he is and what he is about for the most part. Continuing to blame Blashill for the issues AA has is a bit much for me.

He was on his way out of town before last season and we seemed to get a much better version. Now the enigmatic AA has returned under Yzerman and in my opinion has thrown away his clean slate or really positive slate in terms of Yzerman spent time listing him as a core player most of the off-season. Just really disappointed in him. If it is injuries I get that, I don't think Khan has him as probably exiting stage left if that is the case, seems to me he is flunking his audition for Yzerman, it is a shame because he has a lot of talent and is fun to watch when he feels like playing hard.

If the guy is hurt, considering his history I'm not sure it's realistic to expect him to bear down further and grit his way through it. Especially defensively. The guy has always been iffy defensively and on the effort front and he probably always will be. It's damn strange that he's not been dangerous offensively. That's always been where he has buttered his bread.

I'd be curious if this recent injury is in any way related to the injury that took him down in camp. Yzerman might not be enamored with him because he's a little too high maintenance and a young team is maybe not the best place to have that sort of guy hanging around a lot. Or maybe he's just seen as the most expendable piece going forward, especially with where the Wings will have to qualify him at for his rights and will likely have to pay to ink him on his next deal.

If AA's healthy, everything is just on him. If he hasn't been, I'm not sure what we can expect him of him on any given night and we should probably just sit him until he's healthy.

Also, have to wonder if maybe he hurt himself running Kerfoot.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

If it were rigged, wouldn't the NHL be more concerned with revenue? Wouldn't it most likely be a less efficient business model if the draft weren't rigged? Obviously storylines play in, and the Wings have great history, but rival TV markets in the large coastal areas should probably be better financially for the league revenue sharing. NY and NJ with the top 2 last year, maybe Anaheim and LA this year. Maybe they toss the Sens or Habs in the top 3 too, just to keep the suspense going as the French-Canadian stud prospect sits at the top of the heap as they reveal the draft order. Should be interesting if the Leafs miss the playoffs, might want to keep an eye on their ping pong bounces (since their 1st round pick is top 10 protected).

If it were rigged, there's only one reason to risk it, and it's the same reason why all of the owners would permit it.

It is most certainly NOT rigged. But if it were, there is no chance the owners are involved.

If it were rigged it’d be the shitty markets constantly winning it. The league has been all about growth in non hockey markets. The salary cap was designed to spread out talent. Revenue sharing was designed to benefit shitty markets. They want great players in bad markets to grow the small fan bases and grow the sport.

also, no team would repeatedly win the lottery. The league wants parody. They don’t want stacked rosters. Again the salary cap is proof of this. Not to mention that’s all they talk about.

 

[Winger98]

If it were rigged, wouldn't the NHL be more concerned with revenue? Wouldn't it most likely be a less efficient business model if the draft weren't rigged? Obviously storylines play in, and the Wings have great history, but rival TV markets in the large coastal areas should probably be better financially for the league revenue sharing. NY and NJ with the top 2 last year, maybe Anaheim and LA this year. Maybe they toss the Sens or Habs in the top 3 too, just to keep the suspense going as the French-Canadian stud prospect sits at the top of the heap as they reveal the draft order. Should be interesting if the Leafs miss the playoffs, might want to keep an eye on their ping pong bounces (since their 1st round pick is top 10 protected).

If it were rigged, there's only one reason to risk it, and it's the same reason why all of the owners would permit it.

the NHL is still largely a gate driven league, and the Wings have a fan base that is very spread out with snowbirds and people moving away from MI for jobs and what not. Yeah, the Canadian teams might not have a hard time filling their arena, but all of those teams in non-traditional markets? Or whose teams just plain suck? A good Wings team walking in, guaranteeing a boost in attendance for those games would be big.

Remember, when the wings were good other teams started special pricing for Wings visits because they knew Wings fans would show up and pay the higher ticket price.

 

[Henkka]

I'm just pissed AA is hurt now cause, now unless he comes back and rips in a goal every other game or something his value doesn't have much time to rise before the TDL.

Teams will know his value. This stat-watching is just too blown out of hands.

If Athanasiou returns just in normal game shape, scoring or not, teams will be interested.

He has one month time to play after this injury before the deadline.

 

[avssuc]

It is most certainly NOT rigged. But if it were, there is no chance the owners are involved.

If it were rigged it’d be the ****ty markets constantly winning it. The league has been all about growth in non hockey markets. The salary cap was designed to spread out talent. Revenue sharing was designed to benefit ****ty markets. They want great players in bad markets to grow the small fan bases and grow the sport.

also, no team would repeatedly win the lottery. The league wants parody. They don’t want stacked rosters. Again the salary cap is proof of this. Not to mention that’s all they talk about.

-Your certainty is misplaced, especially when the financial benefits far outnumber fair play... but perhaps even more especially when coupled with the fact that the league and teams have no legal obligation not to rig since the NHL is incorporated as entertainment. We know this because of the Jets fan that sued the NFL (incorporated the same as the NHL) and lost:

"However, Cowen said Mayer failed to prove any legal right to damages.
"At best, he possessed nothing more than a contractual right to a seat from which to watch an NFL game between the Jets and the Patriots, and this right was clearly honored," Cowen wrote.
The large markets winning is what benefits under revenue sharing, look at any of the other major sports leagues for examples of this."

Appeals court upholds dismissal of fan lawsuit over Patriots' taping

-Small market teams would want the big market to win because it's worth more money, simple math.

___________________

Other than that, the other bolded from your post are just PR buzzwords.

People are pretty crappy, and when they have 'no legal incentive' to make less money and not be crappy, what is the probable result? We are talking about some of the most cutthroat and ruthless business folks around, so I tend to be a bit more skeptical about intention in this sort of situation. I'm not arguing that it's rigged, I'm just arguing that we can't say it isn't, not with what we know about human tendencies and the legal protections here. I think looking at this like some sort of agnostic is the right call.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

-Your certainty is misplaced, especially when the financial benefits far outnumber fair play... but perhaps even more especially when coupled with the fact that the league and teams have no legal obligation not to rig since the NHL is incorporated as entertainment. We know this because of the Jets fan that sued the NFL (incorporated the same as the NHL) and lost:

"However, Cowen said Mayer failed to prove any legal right to damages.
"At best, he possessed nothing more than a contractual right to a seat from which to watch an NFL game between the Jets and the Patriots, and this right was clearly honored," Cowen wrote.
The large markets winning is what benefits under revenue sharing, look at any of the other major sports leagues for examples of this."

Appeals court upholds dismissal of fan lawsuit over Patriots' taping

-Small market teams would want the big market to win because it's worth more money, simple math.

___________________

Other than that, the other bolded from your post are just PR buzzwords.

People are pretty crappy, and when they have 'no legal incentive' to make less money and not be crappy, what is the probable result? We are talking about some of the most cutthroat and ruthless business folks around, so I tend to be a bit more skeptical about intention in this sort of situation. I'm not arguing that it's rigged, I'm just arguing that we can't say it isn't, not with what we know about human tendencies and the legal protections here. I think looking at this like some sort of agnostic is the right call.

It’s not rigged. You can go watch the drawings online. They are taped and released to the public. What happens when Detroit gets leaped by Chicago? You think they would be cool with that? “Oh yeah sure! You need it. We’ll wait a couple years.” It’s asinine. Every team doesn’t make the same amount of money because “revenue sharing” they only share like 9% of revenue league wide. No one would be willing to give up the money Crosby draws in.

 

[lilidk]

It's been 3 weeks already,any news