ATD2019 - Draft Thread I

[tony d]

With namba's pick we are now 1/2 way through the draft. Lots of good drafting being done, it's in these final picks that champions are made.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I agree with Dreakmur’s choice. Even if you were to rank Armstrong higher on a Best Captains of All Time list, it’s close enough where I’d give it to the player whose on ice performance is going to be a lot more impactful than the other’s.

Who performed better in the playoffs?

 

[Dreakmur]

Who performed better in the playoffs?

Bill Cook

 

[BenchBrawl]

Bill Cook

Not so sure about that.Maybe.

 

[Dreakmur]

Not so sure about that.Maybe.

I'm sure.

 

[VanIslander]

Why?

Reasoning by confidence is so of the times we're in: "He's the greatest folks. I know. The best. No doubt about it." *stick chin out and grin*

 

[Dreakmur]

Why?

Reasoning by confidence is so of the times we're in: "He's the greatest folks. I know. The best. No doubt about it." *stick chin out and grin*

Play-off Points - 4, 5, 5
Play-off Goals - 2, 4, 6, 8
Play-off Assists - 4, 5, 6

VS.

Play-off Points - 2, 3, 5, 5, 8
Play-off Goals - 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 8
Play-off Assists - 1, 3, 4, 6

 

[VanIslander]

Ah,... in terms of leadership it isn't so apt to reduce playoff performance to points.

And Armstrong actually scored more playoff points than any teammate over the Leafs dynasty. But more to the point: Toronto had success through extreme hard work and defensive play against offensively better teams. The captain, the coach and goaltending were key.

It also helps that Conn Smythe identifies in his autobiography Armstrong as the greatest Leaf captain ever, acknowledging Kennedy but still picking Armstrong.

 

[Dreakmur]

Ah,... in terms of leadership it isn't so apt to reduce playoff performance to points.

And Armstrong actually scored more playoff points than any teammate in the Leafs dynasty. But more to the point: Toronto had success through extreme hard work and defensive play against offensively better teams. The captain, the coach and goaltending were key.

It also helps that Conn Smythe identifies in his autobiography Armstrong as the greatest Leaf captain ever, acknowledging Kennedy but still picking Armstrong.

Hey, you don't have to convince me that Armstrong was a great captain. It's just that Bill Cook was also a great captain.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Defensive value matters. There is a long way to go until we get where we need to be in accepting and acknowledging this.

I rarely go into VsX anymore because it's become such a crutch for arguments when you look back at the assassination threads and head to head match ups to determine line superiority.

 

[Dreakmur]

I rarely go into VsX anymore because it's become such a crutch for arguments when you look back at the assassination threads and head to head match ups to determine line superiority.

I always use it as a launching point.

 

[VanIslander]

Armstrong captained for 12 years and 4 Stanley Cups.

Cook captained for 11 years and 2 Stanley Cups.

Anyways, it's a minor point. As long as he's wearing a letter, he's officially an "alternate captain" and a leader of men.

 

[tinyzombies]

Can I make Durnan my captain even though he has inflated wartime numbers, was a deserter, quit on his team in the playoffs and acquired cheap first team all-star wins? All that said, he was captain in 1948.

Personally, I think this is all Tranna talk.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Can I make Durnan my captain even though he has inflated wartime numbers, was a deserter, quit on his team in the playoffs and acquired cheap first team all-star wins? All that said, he was captain in 1948.

Personally, I think this is all Tranna talk.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Charlie Gardiner can be captain among goalies... and that's it.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I always use it as a launching point.

Understood.

My point was part of a bigger issue I see. When comparing players we always tend to use VsX or point/goal/assist finishes etc to determine value. It's the constant go to for many and while there is obvious value in offense I think we all tend to undervalue (to varying degrees) the impact D has in hockey.

 

[Habsfan18]

@papershoes OTC? Can the OP be updated please?

 

[VanIslander]

Charlie Gardiner can be captain among goalies... and that's it.

Can he? Underwhelming. Yeah they won the cup but he only captained the team for one season!

 

[Dreakmur]

Understood.

My point was part of a bigger issue I see. When comparing players we always tend to use VsX or point/goal/assist finishes etc to determine value. It's the constant go to for many and while there is obvious value in offense I think we all tend to undervalue (to varying degrees) the impact D has in hockey.

I’ve not really seen this. I’ve never seen anyone use the vs.x numbers to do anything but show offensive comparisons.

 

[The Macho King]

Charlie Gardiner can be captain among goalies... and that's it.

I can think of another undrafted C that played goalie.

 

[papershoes]

Kenora is pleased to select...

MIKE GRANT (D)

 

[BenchBrawl]

Can he? Underwhelming. Yeah they won the cup but he only captained the team for one season!

Yeah but he died shortly thereafter, so it was quite the heroic run.

In any case, not saying he would be a strong captain, just an adequate one at least, which no other ATD goalie could say.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I’ve not really seen this. I’ve never seen anyone use the vs.x numbers to do anything but show offensive comparisons.

You literally used offensive finishes above to determine who was better in the playoffs between Armstrong and Cook.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But it's just that we inherently go straight to the offensive side of the coin to determine value. It's not 100% wrong but I find it very interesting how conditioned we are to focus on that side of the game, in all sports, really.

 

[Habsfan18]

Let’s get on a roll tonight fellas.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I’ve not really seen this. I’ve never seen anyone use the vs.x numbers to do anything but show offensive comparisons.

I've never seen anyone do a defensive comparison without doing an offensive comparison, but I've seen a crap ton of people do an offensive comparison without doing a defensive one.