ATD2011 Trade Thread & Trade Talk

[EagleBelfour]

That would give him the following picks in total:
76, 79, 82, 85, 156, 159, 162, and 165

I'll have to agree with Sturm on this one: The best GM in here would destroy the competition with that kind of depth.

I think the trade is lopsided towards ZM/Dwight, but I'm not sure it's veto worthy. I won't pronounce myself on that matter.

The last GM who pulled out this stunt was Nalyd Psycho, who's one of the best GM in this draft. If this trade goes through, you'll have to be ready to put a lot of effort into this draft Reen if you want a successful team.

The fact ''pappy's team'' won in ATD 9 doesn't mean his team would have won in real life , which is why debating can be endlessly fun

Wow, that was so random Reen! Why you're bringing up Pappy's ATD#9 team up into the debate, I'm curious Looking back, that was one hell of a team for him, who deservedly won the draft.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'll have to agree with Sturm on this one: The best GM in here would destroy the competition with that kind of depth.

I think the trade is lopsided towards ZM/Dwight, but I'm not sure it's veto worthy. I won't pronounce myself on that matter.

The last GM who pulled out this stunt was Nalyd Psycho, who's one of the best GM in this draft. If this trade goes through, you'll have to be ready to put a lot of effort into this draft Reen if you want a successful team.



Wow, that was so random Reen! Why you're bringing up Pappy's ATD#9 team up into the debate, I'm curious Looking back, that was one hell of a team for him, who deservedly won the draft.

Well I just took the night to debate a trade that wasn't even confirmed by both Gm's of the other party , so I'm willing to put a lot of effort

As for ''pappy' team'' , I got no idea what it was , someone mentionned it and I was just trying to explain my point of view.

Anyway , I guess the chances of this trade going down are not good , but listening to all of you it's a good thing for me

 

[Sturminator]

Wow, that was so random Reen! Why you're bringing up Pappy's ATD#9 team up into the debate, I'm curious Looking back, that was one hell of a team for him, who deservedly won the draft.

I brought it up...but my memory was incorrect. ATD#9 was definitely the draft where we saw the most gamesmanship around trading down and collecting top-200 picks, but pappy, himself, traded in moderation. Other GMs were much more guilty of pick-hoarding and "gaming" the ATD.

 

[BenchBrawl]

At this point I truly don't care if this trade is accepted or not , just get it over with people I guess my drafting will be funnier if I have more picks.

 

[EagleBelfour]

At this point I truly don't care if this trade is accepted or not , just get it over with people I guess my drafting will be funnier if I have more picks.

Well, actually you'll end up with the same amount of pick as anyone else, you just won't have to wait 45 days before making another selection!

 

[jarek]

My vote is to veto it. And it seems like at least 50% of all GMs are against it so I don't think that trade should go through.

 

[BenchBrawl]

BTW , I don't have the 79 , 159 and 239 anymore, but the 78 , 158 and 238 pick IIRC my trade with Home Nugget.

 

[VanIslander]

from Gwinnett: 1st (#20), 4th (#141), 6th(#221)
from Portland: 2nd (#52), 3rd (#109), 5th (#189)

sturminator to confirm

 

[Evil Sather]

the 5th OV + pupu platter for 2,3,4,5 is precisely what the trade committee is created for IMO, creates a bottom 3 and a top 3 team off the bat. In favor of a "no more than 4 rounds between picks traded" rule, 3 seems restrictive and 5 seems excessive.

-- afk for a year again

 

[Sturminator]

from Gwinnett: 1st (#20), 4th (#141), 6th(#221)
from Portland: 2nd (#52), 3rd (#109), 5th (#189)

sturminator to confirm

Confirmed.

 

[markrander87]

Regarding the Massive Reen ZM trade, I 100% agree it is veto worth. Way too much depth going to one side. Im very shocked 70's thinks this is an even trade.

 

[Dwight]

In light of everyone thinking this trade is good for me and ZM, I suppose I'll agree to it, but I think it's still best to wait for him to confirm (and the trade might be vetoed)

 

[seventieslord]

I completely disagree. If he pulls this deal off, Zamboni Mania should be ashamed of himself if he doesn't win the ATD going away.

Dropping from the 5th overall into the 2nd round is a big fall, but moving up from 11th, 12th, 13th to 3rd, 4th, 5th is a hugely lopsided return for that move-down. I don't get how the experienced GMs here aren't seeing it.

I could build a team with the picks ZM will get after this deal that no one could touch. It is badly, badly out of whack.

I.................................................. don't know what I was thinking last night. I agree with you. This deal is all kinds of bad.

I haven't been sleeping much; here's how my thought process went - "hmm, he gets Gretzky and ***** but doesn't pick again until close to 80th" (it would actually be 236!) - that seems fair."

no, it's not fair. First of all, I completely disregarded the competitive advantage it gives ZM and Dwight, and it's a big one. Second, it completely cripples ReenMachine. I'm scared to think of who he'd get for wingers at #236 and 245. Preferably no one, and he grabs a goalie and a defensemen while he can. Can you imagine what kind of #1 D-man he gets? Even if both those picks are used on the best defensemen available, at the very best he has poor #2 guys as a #1 and #2 - and no wingers and no goalie. I don't even want to think about what the team looks like if he takes two wingers here to avoid "wasting" his centers, and doesn't look at D or G until the 316/325 picks.

If someone wants to get that dynamic duo, good stuff, but at this price it is just bad for the draft.

I definitely vote veto. But I shouldn't have to. You should run far, far away from this deal, RM.

That's too conservative , no room to maneuver.People have already traded ALL OF THEIR PICKS for the other GM entire set of picks.

that's different; it's identical value going both ways, nothing but manipulating their draft positions now and moving forward.

Not to mention there are 50 goal scorer's who fall to 300-400 always, lol.

There's nothing LOL about it. There are 50-goal scorers who drop to the Beer league (we just took the last one) - You talk about 50 goals like it means it should guarantee you a ticket to the top-200 or something. There's a lot more to it than that!

 

[seventieslord]

There is no reason for anyone to be rude to you, and I don't think that anyone seriously believes that you are operating in bad faith. You are simply excited about building your team and not thinking about the consequences for the league, as a whole. No one can fault you for it, just as no one can fault Zamboni for wanting to work a trade to his (rather extreme) benefit.

The need for for a trade veto mechanism has nothing to do with bad faith or cheating, and it is not necessary to be angry with any party involved to deem a trade unacceptable for reasons of league balance.

This draft needs more you.

I'll have to agree with Sturm on this one: The best GM in here would destroy the competition with that kind of depth.
.

Looking at it again, so would an average GM.

Imagine an average GM takes players 20% earlier than you would. Add 20% to those pick numbers and look at what players you'd pick up with them. You'd win the draft.

Regarding the Massive Reen ZM trade, I 100% agree it is veto worth. Way too much depth going to one side. Im very shocked 70's thinks this is an even trade.

And you should be.

Apologies.

 

[VanIslander]

In light of everyone thinking this trade is good for me and ZM, I suppose I'll agree to it, but I think it's still best to wait for him to confirm

I agree if my co-GM does.

Reenmachine already has Gretzky and with the 5th overall pick he could have a staggering foundation, a duo that AUTOMATICALLY makes the team worthy opponents in any series and, really, if on top of their game, can make second rate wingers into star performers. Gretzky alone will make 6th round wingers play like 3rd rounders!

I am excited by what we get in this trade (scared as hell though to have no top-75 picks) but MUCH MORE interested in seeing what reen does building a team around the two top players. It's gripping! This kind of drama is worth the price of admission.

 

[VanIslander]

Zamboni Mania - 1st ( 5th overall ) , 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th
for
My 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 25th

Still to be confirmed by Zamboni Mania

consider it done

 

[DoMakc]

I vote veto too.

 

[seventieslord]

MUCH MORE interested in seeing what reen does building a team around the two top players. It's gripping! This kind of drama is worth the price of admission.

I fail to see what "team" can be built around them in this scenario. By pick #235 these are still the only two players on the roster. Then he makes two of the next 10 picks and regardless of who he takes, he's massively behind no matter who he takes (assuming their aren't ridiculous steals out there, of course)

This wouldn't be unprecedented. the modern day Penguins of the last three seasons have had the two centers that many people consider the best. On the wing, on defense, and in goal, they range from average to poor. They don't steamroll the competition.

To anyone who is thinking, "yeah, but _____ and _____ are nowhere near Gretzky and L*******, no, in absolute terms they aren't, but the relative gap from Gretzky to L****** to the next-best few centers to an average ATD first line center, is very relatively similar to the gap from ______ to ______* to the next-best few centers, to average modern day NHL first line centers.

Having the league's two best centers is far from a trump card. What everyone needs to remember is that this is like a super-elite league where we "call up" players from the "minors" (the minors being most often the NHL, but also the WHA, PCHA, NHA, Europe, International tournaments, early Stanley Cup Play, etc). No one is as dominant here, as they were in the minors. Not Gretzky, not Orr.


* assuming _____ is "on", and this season he's been mostly "off".

 

[jarek]

consider it done

I would say "consider it veto'd" is more accurate. Nobody wants to see this deal done. Rework it, boys.

 

[jarek]

Well boys and girls, I know I said that I wouldn't make any trades this time around, but with the consensus agreeing that trades are necessary, I have found an opportunity to do something I've never done before - start the draft in the 2nd round!

My 1st (16), 18th (705), 20th (785)
Mr. Bugg's 5th (177), 7th (257), 11th (417)

Pending review of course, but in light of some of the insanity that's been going on recently, this should be fairly agreeable.

 

[hfboardsuser]

Confirmed. I can't imagine there being a problem with this one. And it would be beneath me to try and sneak such a deal by everyone whilst you're distracted with that other trade boondoggle.

 

[seventieslord]

I say it's very fair. Any other thoughts?

 

[Sturminator]

Well boys and girls, I know I said that I wouldn't make any trades this time around, but with the consensus agreeing that trades are necessary, I have found an opportunity to do something I've never done before - start the draft in the 2nd round!

My 1st (16), 18th (705), 20th (785)
Mr. Bugg's 5th (177), 7th (257), 11th (417)

Pending review of course, but in light of some of the insanity that's been going on recently, this should be fairly agreeable.

It looks fine to me. I think it's to Bugg's advantage, but not extremely so.

 

[Sturminator]

Right now, we have a 5 man trade committee (not sure if 70's counts as the sixth), and two (myself and jarek) have come out with a vote to veto this deal, but we need a decision from TheDevilMadeMe, vancityluongo and MVPeyton (a single veto from any of them will do) to move on. Let's go ahead and get this done one way or another, as the disputed pick is currently on the clock.

 

[jarek]

It looks fine to me. I think it's to Bugg's advantage, but not extremely so.

Not that I disagree with you, but.. how come? In a draft this huge, having a lot of strong players in the top-6 and top-4 D will be critical, and each pick I'm receiving will get me a player in one of those positions.