ATD2011 Louis Magnus Semi: (2) Detroit Riots vs. (3) North Pole Penguinators

Discussion in 'All Time Draft' started by Stoneberg, Apr 28, 2011.

  1. Stoneberg

    Stoneberg Bored

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    Detroit Riots
    Head Coach: Jack Adams
    Assistant Coach: Paul MacLean
    Captain: Gordie Howe
    Alternate Captains:Jack Stewart, Ching Johnson

    ROSTER
    Simmer - Dionne - Howe
    Graves - Thornton - Fleury
    Lambert - Linseman - Babich
    Schultz - Taylor - Redmond

    Spares: Neidermayer, Malhotra

    Stewart - Carlyle
    Larson - Johnson
    Keith -Gusev

    Spares: Richardson

    Giacomin
    Kolzig


    PP1: Simmer - Dionne - Howe - Larson - Keith

    PP2: Graves - Thornton - Fleury - Redmond - Carlyle

    PK1: Linseman - Lambert - Stewart - Johnson

    PK2: Dionne - Howe - Keith - Carlyle



    North Pole Penguinators
    Head Coach: Bob Johnson
    Assistant Coach: Barry Trotz

    Captain: Lester Patrick
    Assistants: Dirk Graham, Duke Keats

    Cy Denneny - Duke Keats - Phil Watson
    Baldy Northcott - Milan Novy - Vladimir Martinec
    Joe Klukay - Craig MacTavish - Dirk Graham
    Jaroslav Jirik - Tom Lysiak - Corb Denneny

    Lester Patrick - Earl Seibert
    Frank Patrick - Vasili Pervukhin
    Terry Harper - Yuri Liapkin

    Johnny Bower
    Dave Kerr

    PP1: Cy Denneny - Duke Keats - Phil Watson - Lester Patrick - Yuri Liapkin
    PP2: Baldy Northcott/Jaroslav Jirik - Milan Novy - Vladimir Martinec - Frank Patrick - Yuri Liapkin

    PP Spares: Corb Denneny, Tom Lysiak, Earl Seibert

    PK1: Joe Klukay - Dirk Graham - Terry Harper - Earl Seibert
    PK2: Baldy Northcott - Craig MacTavish - Lester Patrick - Vasili Pervukhin
    PK3: Joe Klukay - Tom Lysiak - Terry Harper - Yuri Liapkin

    PK Spares: Milan Novy, Vladimir Martinec, Phil Watson, Duke Keats, Jaroslav Jirik

    General Spares: Fred Whitcroft, F/D; Weldy Young, D; Bobby Gould, F​
     
  2. Dreakmur

    Dreakmur Registered User

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    I had Detroit ahead in the regular season, but with Dionne, Thornton, and Giacomin in key roles, they could be in trouble here.

    This is going to be close.
     
  3. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Not to mention that Johnny Bower will actually start every game in the playoffs, unlike the regular season where I really pictured Kerr starting 25-30 games. Definite plus for the Penguinators in the Playoffs there.

    Still, the Penguinators really need a plan to contain the monster that is Gordie Howe.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011
  4. jarek

    jarek Registered User

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    Luckily for me, Joe Klukay played against Howe in real life (presumably, at least). Being thought of as highly as he is, I'm sure Klukay must have seen some success against Howe.

    Obviously, my third line will be glued to the Howe line as much as possible, and I think it matches up very well. Given Dionne's apparent playoff struggles, MacTavish should see an easier time against him here. Graham vs. Simmer should be a non-issue for Graham as well. Also, because Howe is by far the greatest offensive threat on the Riots, I will also be shifting Earl Seibert to the left for him to deal with Howe (in case that didn't make it clear, Patrick - Seibert will now be Seibert - Patrick).

    Additionally, I think I'd like to see my first line against that second line of the Riots. Joe Thornton is exactly the type of player that I think Keats would do very well against in a defensive situation. It isn't as much of a checking line as it is going power on power here. I think my Keats line should do pretty well against that line on the defensive end, and given Thornton's immense playoff struggles, the line won't be as effective offensively here. I think my first line should be an overall plus in this respect.

    I think the biggest question is, what are the Riots going to do against the Novy line? There is no line on the Riots that seems fit to play superbly in a defensive situation, and given the skill on the Novy line, any line matched up against that line will be on the defensive more often than not (aside from the Howe line, obviously). I think that, and Bower, will be a huge deal here in this series.

    On defense, I think mine matches up very well against the Nuggets' D. In most comparisons here, I see an edge in my favor.

    Individually:

    Seibert > Stewart
    L. Patrick > Johnson (although a good argument could change my mind, but I think Patrick is the better overall player)
    Carlyle > F. Patrick
    Pervukhin = Larson? (I really have no idea what to think of this)
    Harper > Gusev
    Liapkin > Keith

    As units:

    Lester Patrick - Earl Seibert > Stewart - Carlyle
    Larson - Johnson > Frank Patrick - Vasili Pervukhin (due mostly to Johnson)
    Terry Harper - Yuri Liapkin > Keith - Gusev

    And IMO, the differences in the 1st and 3rd pairs in my favor is larger than the advantage the Riots may have on the 2nd pair.

    Looking closer at it, it seems like the Riots' 3rd line is a solid enough two-way line, but it is dwarfed by the Klukay line, IMO, and that doesn't solve the problem that I have 2 equal (IMO) scoring lines to worry about.. as well as a 4th line that can do some offensive damage as well.

    I'm not entirely sure what to think of coaching in this matchup, but my gut says Johnson is better than Adams. And Bower > Giacomin, by a lot, obviously.

    I feel pretty good about this series. Regardless, good luck to the Riots!
     
  5. jarek

    jarek Registered User

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    Is anyone else planning on commenting on this series? I don't have a whole ton of time to do much of anything recently, so if there are points that people aren't sure about, I'd like to know about it. Thanks. :)
     
  6. Leafs Forever

    Leafs Forever Registered User

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    More on special teams and Klukay vs Howe.
     
  7. hungryhungryhippy

    hungryhungryhippy Registered User

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    But in 1952 Klukay, now a 6 year veteran of the league, was traded to Boston in another Leafs youth movement. Klukay continued to excel in "Bean Town." His most memorable moment as a member of the Black and Gold came in the semi-finals of the 1953 playoffs. Klukay was assigned to shadow the immortal Gordie Howe. Klukay held Howe to only 2 goals in 6 games, a remarkable achievement. However the Bruins came up short in the championship series.

    - J.P.
     
  8. jarek

    jarek Registered User

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    I really wish I had some anecdotes regarding Klukay vs. Howe. I attempted to figure out how well Klukay did vs. Howe in the playoffs using The Trail, but that didn't amount to much of anything.

    Special teams:

    Simmer - Dionne - Howe - Larson - Keith vs. Cy Denneny - Duke Keats - Phil Watson - Lester Patrick - Yuri Liapkin

    Aside from Howe and Dionne, which are two obviously big advantages for the Riots in those respective positions, I have pretty large advantages myself in basically all the other positions on the PP1, and IMO, it's enough to call this even at best. Keith is a horrible PP1 quarterback if you ask me, and Liapkin is probably the best point man out of either unit (and I would argue that Patrick is the 2nd best). Containing Howe and Dionne on the PP is, ultimately, a futile endeavor, but I think my guys will have an easier time of that then his guys will have with mine.

    Graves - Thornton - Fleury - Redmond - Carlyle vs. Baldy Northcott/Jaroslav Jirik - Milan Novy - Vladimir Martinec - Frank Patrick - Yuri Liapkin

    Here is where I think the Riots completely fall apart on the PP. Other than Thornton (and it's honestly debatable, with international competitions and playoffs included, whether or not Thornton is really better than Novy offensively in the playoffs), I hold edges in every position on the PP2, and in most cases, they are substantial edges. Here is a PP2 that is just as good as the PP1 for the most part, whereas there is a massive fall off from the PP1 for the Riots. Additionally, because my 2nd unit is that good that I can play it about equally with the 1st unit, the guys should be better rested for even strength duty (apart from Liapkin). Take that as you will.

    Linseman - Lambert - Stewart - Johnson vs. Joe Klukay - Dirk Graham - Terry Harper - Earl Seibert

    I believe I hold a sizable edge here. Seibert is the best defenseman defensively of either unit, and I hold both the best and 2nd best PK'ing forwards as well. I don't know of the short handed scoring prowess of the Riots PK, but not only do my guys have reputations for being dangerous offensively on the PK, but there is also considerable speed here, so turn overs by the Riots' PP will almost guarantee 25-30 seconds wasted on the PP just because of the forecheck that my forwards will bring the other way.

    Dionne - Howe - Keith - Carlyle vs. Baldy Northcott - Craig MacTavish - Lester Patrick - Vasili Pervukhin

    Well, if either unit here is going to score short handed, it's pretty obvious which one. I don't know if Dionne and Keith are good enough defensively in an all time sense to see regular PK duty in the ATD, and thus my PP should do very well against this PK unit. Counterattacks by the Riots' 2nd PK unit will be dangerous to deal with, so that might lower the effectiveness of whatever PP unit is out there against them, but because of the relative ineptitude of Dionne and Keith here, I think my PP should come out more ahead than it otherwise would have. Meanwhile, my 2nd PK, while obviously not as good as the first, should get the job done against what is a fairly weak 2nd PP unit of the Riots.

    Overall, I think I have a substantial edge in special teams here. I welcome arguments to the contrary if anyone is so inclined to provide them.
     
  9. jarek

    jarek Registered User

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    Wow, that's a fine quote indeed. Thanks, man!
     
  10. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Surprised BW didn't remember this, given how the Klukay/Howe matchup was part of last year's ATD final series.

    Howe still did get his fair share of assists in that series - it's not fair to judge Howe strictly on goals, as he was arguably an even better playmaker than goal scorer. But Klukay still did as well as anyone did against Howe in the early 50s when he was playing with Kelly and Lindsay.
     
  11. jarek

    jarek Registered User

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    As best as can be expected is no better than the best job that anyone ever did on Gretzky. I'm under no illusion that Howe can be stopped. He can't. I do think that Klukay is as good as anyone for the job, though.
     
  12. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    I think Klukay is about as good as you can get against Howe, unless you go out of you way to draft someone like Gainey really early.

    But Howe was a workhorse. How many minutes do you see Klukay playing here? And is MacTavish really someone you want to give big minutes to against Dionne?
     
  13. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    On the other hand, I'm pretty unimpressed by Detroit's bottom 6. Martinec in particular would skate circles around Lambert or Schultz.
     
  14. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Ching Johnson and Black Jack Stewart seem like the perfect type of defensemen to shut down a slow power linenlike the Keats unit. Will they struggle against the faster Czech line? Maybe.

    I really don't like Reed Larson as a #4.
     
  15. jarek

    jarek Registered User

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    I don't see a problem with MacTavish being out there against Dionne. MacTavish actually played against Dionne (and would have played often against him), and nobody has ever said anything negative about that, assuming MacTavish played specifically against Dionne. Regardless, I don't expect Klukay to always be out against Howe, but I can see 18-20 minutes a game being reasonable (including PK time). Does that seem unreasonable?

    Indeed. I have very legitimate concerns about the Riots' ability to contain the Martinec line.

    Duke Keats was celebrated as the best stick handler of his era (at least in the WCHL). There is tons of praise about his game in that regard. He may be slow, but he will find a way to penetrate the zone. I think the Keats line should see success against both those defensemen.

    The other thing that is going for my team, I have a defenseman on each pairing that can handle the puck really well. Definitely at least the Patricks and Seibert. If Keats can't get through the defense, my very fast defenseman should be able to and help set up the play once the forwards arrive.
     
  16. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Game 1. Duke Keats and Cy Denneny take advantage of a surprisingly weak Giacomin, as the North Poll PP goes 3 of 6. North Poll wins 5-3. Gordie Howe has 2 points in the loss.

    Game 2. Gordie Howe flat out dominates, with 2 goals and 3 assists. Martinec has 3 points, but it isn't enough. Detroit wins 6-4.

    Game 3. At home, Detroit matches up Klukay on Howe and he holds him to 2 assists. Johnny Bower shuts the door on the rest of the team. Keats has the winning goal. North Poll wins 3-2.

    Game 4. Howe is limited to 1 assist (to Dionne), but does have 6 shots. Johnny Bower flat out steals the game, making 38 saves. Martinec has the winning goal. North Poll wins 3-1.

    Game 5. Howe has 2 goals, almost singlehandedly dragging his team into OT. But Bower becomes a wall in the extra period. Denneny ends the series by putting home a rebound of a Keats shot.

    North Poll upsets Detroit in OT of Game 5.

    Stars:

    1. Gordie Howe
    2. Johnny Bower
    3. Duke Keats / Cy Denneny

    Klukay and Martinec were very visible in the win. Dionne and Fleury showed up in the loss.
     
  17. Derick*

    Derick* Guest

    Reveal who won my series :scared:
     

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