ATD2011 Jim Robson Prelims: (4) Winnipeg Falcons vs. (5) San Jose Sharks

[seventieslord]

Ramage has like one of the toughest names ever. It's essentially "damage" with "ram" thrown in for effect. Of course he is more physical than a guy called "Calle".

 

[Derick*]

You should substantiate that. You didn't name a single advantage the Firebirds have, just ones the Sharks have that they're better depsite.

Myself, I don't see how anyone could vote for the Firebirds considering how much more offense the Sharks have, how much better the Sharks defenseman will move the puck up, how much better the Sharks powerplay is, and how much better the Sharks goaltending is. A good defensive top nine can't compensate for the fact that the Sharks will completely control the play and dominate the goaltending duel.

Was simply a typing mistake. I had the roster and lines of the Falcons in mind, of course.

 

[Derick*]

And to substantiate my drunken statement (that is something I probably shouldn't have said out loud and I'm sorry):

No need to apologize. I questioned it in the spirit of debate. It wasn't an inappropriate comment or something.

I like jkrx's top line, 2nd line, and 3rd line better. Cog has a massively offensively inclined team that will be able to be shut down by the solid two way play of the top two lines of the Falcons.

His team is very defensive and mine is very offensive. His style has disadvantages just as much as mine.

It's true that his defensive players will do a number on my ability to produce. But not only do I have a a very offensive team, I have depth offensively and Bobby Orr to move the puck up. He's not going to be able to shut down a team with that much offensive talent and that much puck control, not completely, especially not with one of the worst goalies in the league in net. Further, as a shutdown team, he's going to be taking a lot of penalties, and going up against the best powerplay in the ATD - Bobby Orr bringing the puck up for Andreychuk, the all-time leader in powerplay goals, plus three other great forwards.

And with all of his forward's resources going to shutting me down, when is he going to score, particularly with my superb fourth line shutting down what little offense he has and one of the best goalies of all time in my net? Consider the fact that Brind'Amour was never a great offensive talent, and while it's common to call Yzerman "two-way," he was only great defensively long after the days of his huge point totals. His team's style is coming at a massive disadvantage offensively.

I think that jkrx's defense is better as a whole. Cog's gonna need Orr to play about 30 mins I think. Even though Winnipeg has in my opinion the second worst goalie in this, his solid defensive unit and great defensive forwards will be able to insulate him at least a little bit. Obviously Cog has the big advantage in goal.

My defense is underrated I think. Baun is a passable top pairing guy, and it's hard to overestimate the effect Bobby Orr has on a team both offensively and defensively.

My last pairing is better than some of you may realize. Nashville puts out a competitive team every year, often as the 4th or 5th seed, and just made the second round. They do this despite spending way below the cap and having almost no offense - a remarkable feat.

Who makes this possible? Weber and Suter, two of the best defenseman in the league. That's why they're Olympians, and Olympians on the best two teams in the tournament, and were two of the best players in the tournament. That's why Weber was one of two defenseman selected for the Olympics all-star team. That's why Weber just got a Norris nom and will probably win it - yet a lot of Nashville fans are saying Suter should be there. I sincereley believe these are two of the best players in the league, and that's why I drafted them. I drafted them because I went by who I would have drafted had it been a real team, not pragmatically by who would be the easiest sell.

I think that the series isn't nearly as one sided as I initially put it, but I still think jkrx wins. And agian I apologize for my somewhat rude characterization of the series intially.

No problem - but I am afraid you're mistaken. In reality, the Sharks would win.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Good point on the effects of Bobby Orr playing behind an offensive-minded team.

But how much ice time are you planning to give the Peca line if you are counting on them to shut down his scorers?

 

[Derick*]

Nashville Predators Leading Scorer

10-11: Martin Erat, 50 points (Weber has 48)
09-10: Steve Sullivan, 51 points (Weber has 43)
08-09: Dumont, 65 (Weber has 53)

How many competitive teams do you know of where a defenseman is a couple points behind the leading scorer each year?

 

[Derick*]

Good point on the effects of Bobby Orr playing behind an offensive-minded team.

But how much ice time are you planning to give the Peca line if you are counting on them to shut down his scorers?

My top three lines are offensively focused but they're not inept defensively, with the possible partial exception of the Malkin line.

The fourth line won't have that much "shutting down" to do because of the lack of offensive talent on the Falcons, so it won't need that much ice time. The focus will be less on shutting down and more on zone coverage.

The Peca line will take 60% of defensive zone faceoffs (remember that there are neutral zone faceoffs so that will work out to less than a quarter of all even strength faceoffs), the 1st line will take 20% of them, and the 3rd line will take 20% of them.

Malkin's line will take no defensive zone faceoffs. The 1st and 3rd can handle some. Abel and Getzlaf are pretty good defensively, Petrov Hextall March and Andreychuk are all average, and Orr will be there to get them back into the offensive zone.

Also, RE: my defensive weaknesses. Bylsma is the best coach in the league in regards to defensive forward lines - which is why the Penguins have been so competitive without Crosby and Malkin. He will help the team get maximum use of my fourth line and other grit players like Nolan.

I have this worked out. I can imagine exactly how the games would go and how the Sharks would dominate.

 

[vecens24]

Cognition I'm glad you took the time to argue what the merits of your team are in comparison to jkrx's. You addressed a lot of my concerns, and actually changed my mind on a few things. I'm not going to argue the others, because I really don't think it's my job to argue on behalf of the other team of a series I'm not involved in. But I do like that you are taking the time to argue this round unlike a lot of other GMs

 

[jkrx]

Since my team have a defensive advantage we will always have a good to great forward covering Orr at all time. He has been shutdown before and can be shutdown again.

I am no too worried about the first line all though it's obviously your best weapon. Your worries should come when your best line isn't on the ice. We have to solid puck movers on our lower pairings and two extremely well playing physical defensive defensemen covering them. Eldebrink and Johansson will take advantage of your slow defense with outlet passes to either of the wingers.

I doubt Nolan or March will produce much for you when they are shutdown by Axelsson and Maltby. Nolan is a obvious target for Maltby to agitate beyond Tortorellas control.

Our PK has the ability to score. With both Yzerman and Brind'Amour being two of the best producers while shorthanded and Hossa on his way to be one of them.

So you will not only be shutdown in ES you will get scored against when on the PP.

I also think that people underrate Bellows and Nystrom when it comes to scoring.

Cogs offesive depth is defenitly overrated in this case. Getzlaf and Nolan are to me two inconsistent performers. Both are pretty hot headed too. Näslund will be buried under the physical workload. Malkin is a good players but his resume is short and injury plagued.

Im also 110% sure that you will get out coached. Tortorella has one season same with Bylsma really.

You lack defense and experience on your team. That will be your fall.

 

[Stoneberg]

The San Jose Sharks deafeat the Winnipeg Falcons in overtime of game 3.

3 stars:
1. Orr
2. Yzerman
3. Stevens