ATD2011 Foster Hewitt Semi: (1) Minnesota Fighting Saints vs. (5) Toronto Maple Leafs

Discussion in 'All Time Draft' started by Stoneberg, Apr 28, 2011.

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  1. Stoneberg

    Stoneberg Bored

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Minnesota Fighting Saints
    Head Coach: Lester Patrick
    Captain: Yvan Cournoyer
    Assistant Captains: Lloyd Cook & Russell Bowie

    #12 Dickie Moore-#26 Peter Stastny-#21 Yvan Cournoyer
    #11 Gordie Roberts-#13 Russell Bowie-#24 Sergei Makarov
    #9 Murray Murdoch-#16 Bobby Holik-#3 Alf Skinner
    #14 Ab McDonald-#5 Jaroslav Holik-#19 Lorne Carr

    #77 Ernie Johnson-#56 Sergei Zubov
    #8 Lloyd Cook-#7 Art Duncan
    #6 Don Awrey-#23 Jeff Beukeboom

    #1 Georges Vezina
    #2 Jirí Králík

    Spares: #22 Bohuslav Stastny, #62 Sami Pahlsson, #65 Sami Salo, #4 Yuri Fedorov

    First Power Play Unit:
    Moore-Stastny-Cournoyer
    Johnson-Zubov

    Second Power Play Unit:
    Roberts-Bowie-Makarov
    Cook-Duncan

    First Penalty Kill Unit:
    Murdoch-Cournoyer
    Johnson-Awrey

    Second Penalty Kill Unit:
    Bowie-McDonald
    Cook-Beukeboom


    Toronto Maple Leafs
    Head Coach:Toe Blake
    Assistant Coach:
    Captain: Ted Lindsay
    Assistant Captains:

    ROSTER
    #7 Ted Lindsay - #10 Joe Primeau - #9 Charlie Conacher
    #8 Rusty Crawford - #12 Eric Staal - #8 Ron Ellis
    #32 Steve Thomas- #8 Cooney Weiland-#44 Stephane Richer
    #26 Thomas Vanek, LW- #7 Gary Unger - #17 Bill Ezinicki
    Spares:#25 Peter Zezel #11 Jordan Staal


    #27 Scott Niedermayer - #2 Red Dutton
    #4 Ron Greschner -#10 Billy Coutu
    #3 Dion Phaneuf- #4 Dave Ellett
    Spares:#3 Sylvain Cote


    #1 Gump Worsley
    #30 Cam Ward
    #1 Reggie M. Lemelin

    PP1:#7 Ted Lindsay - #10 Joe Primeau - #9 Charlie Conacher #27 Scott Niedermayer #4 Dave Ellett spare #44 Stephane Richer


    PP2:#26 Thomas Vanek #12 Eric Staal - #8 Ron Ellis#4 Ron Greschner #3 Dion Phaneuf spare #44 Stephane Richer

    PK1:#12 Eric Staal - #8 Ron Ellis #27 Scott Niedermayer - #2 Red Dutton

    PK2:#26 Thomas Vanek, LW- #7 Gary Unger
    #4 Ron Greschner -#10 Billy Coutu​
     
  2. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

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    If you read this Nyld didn't even bother to post in this thread once!He doesn't deserve to move forward because he hasn't shown any effort. I have been here despite balancing school home life a pregnant gf 6 cats(Mercifully 5 are gone now as of today!) and a sick mother.

    This i what i wrote earlier also enjoy my player bios thanks

    This has to be the weakest ranked #1 team in a division play so far in the ATD. It seems poorly constructed and I think it is because nyld has been absent and because of this he has been very inactive and I for the life of me can't really find anything that he has written on his players. Did he write or piece together any bios?

    #12 Dickie Moore-#26 Peter Stastny-#21 Yvan Cournoyer

    who is going to control the play on your #1 line? It has to be run by one guy and if that is Stastny will Cournoyer be able to step it up and be more defensively aware? I for one do not believe so. Will it be stastny or cournoyer and is statsny fast enough to keep up with the rd runner. Will they be able to stay onside to have any chance of an an attack?


    #11 Gordie Roberts-#13 Russell Bowie-#24 Sergei Makarov

    I make the same argument again. Who will carry the puck while on the attack and can the remaining player carry more defensive responsibility.
    #9 Murray Murdoch-#16 Bobby Holik-#3 Alf Skinner
    #14 Ab McDonald-#5 Jaroslav Holik-#19 Lorne Carr

    great set of 4th liners on the last 2 lines. They better be great at defence because most of them won't be able to score in a atd format.

    didn't carr have just one eye?

    Got to love Cournoyer on the PK ....if your on my team



    #77 Ernie Johnson-#56 Sergei Zubov
    #8 Lloyd Cook-#7 Art Duncan
    #6 Don Awrey-#23 Jeff Beukeboom


    Johnson is a # 3 d-man so your # 1 dman has less then 5 fingers.You got to thin kthat wil laffect his play. Zubov should be a 4th dman not on the first pairing.

    #8 Lloyd Cook-#7 Art Duncan were risky players who could burn you more then they can help you in a ATD.

    #6 Don Awrey-#23 Jeff Beukeboom
    Awrey once went 153 games without scoring a goal.He had a long but unremarkable career as a defensive player only. He couldn't even get points while playing with orr
    Jeff Beukeboom is a spare at best.

    #1 Georges Vezina
    #2 Jirí Králík

    vezina has 2 cups in a good career. Half as many as my starter.

    all the best
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  3. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

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    Toe Blake, Coach
    wikipedia

    http://insidehockey.com/?p=6812

    Seasons 13
    Era Mid 50's late 60's
    RS:914 500 255 159 .634 WINNING PERCENTAGE
    PO:119 82 37 0 .689 WINNING PERCENTAGE
    League championships: 1955-1956, 1957-1962, 1963-1964, 1965-1966, 1967-1968
    Best Season 1961-62 70 42 14 14 .700%
    HOF 1964
    Stanley Cups 8

    #9 Charlie Conacher RW
    Seasons 12
    Era Late 20's Early 40's
    RS 459 225 173 398 523
    PO 49 17 18 35 49
    Adjusted stats 459 393 399 792 323
    Art Ross Trophy (1934, 1935)
    First All-Star Team (1934, 1935, 1936)
    Second All-Star Team (1932, 1933)
    Stanley Cups 1
    HOF 1961
    Top 10 Goals
    1930-31 (1)1931-32 (1)1933-34 (1)1934-35 (1)1935-36 (1)
    Top 10 Points
    1930-31 (3)1931-32 (4)1933-34 (1)1934-35 (1)1935-36 (4)
    Top 100 Leafs of all Time book 6
    Top 100 The hockey News (Late 1990's) 36th
    Role Power Forward


    #3 Sylvain Cote D

    Seasons 18
    Era Mid 80's -mid 2000's
    RS 1171 122 313 435 545 +39
    PO 102 11 22 33 62
    Best Season 1993-94 84 16 35 51 66 +30
    Stanley Cup Finals 1
    Role Power play specialist 7th d-man


    #10 Billy Coutu,D
    Height: 5'11''
    Weight: 190 lbs
    Position: Defense
    Shoots: Left
    Date of Birth: March 01, 1892
    Place of Birth: North Bay, Ontario, Canada
    Date of Death: February 25, 1977 (Age: 84)
    Stanley Cup Champion (1924)
    Stanley Cup Finalist (1917, 1919*, 1925)
    Team Captain (1925-1926)
    Top-10 Penalty Minutes (3rd, 7th, 8th, 8th)
    Top-10 Scoring Among defenseman (7th, 7th, 8th, 8th, 9th, 9th, 10th, 10th)
    Top-10 Goalscoring among defenseman (6th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 10th)
    Top-10 Assist among defenseman (5th, 6th, 8th, 8th, 10th, 10th)
    Top-10 Penalty Minutes among defenseman (2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 5th, 8th, 8th, 9th, 9th)
    Top-10 Playoff Goalscoring (8th)
    Top-10 Playoff Assist (9th)
    Top-10 Playoff Penalty Minutes (1st, 8th)
    Top-10 Playoff Scoring Among defenseman (3rd, 6th)
    Top-10 Playoff Goalscoring among defenseman (1st)
    Top-10 Playoff Assist among defenseman (1st)
    Top-10 Playoff Pim among defenseman (1st, 4th, 5th)[/B]


    - In 1916, Coutu won the U.S.A. Senior championship with the Michigan Soo Indians
    - On November 24th, 1916, Coutu signed as a free agent by Montreal Canadiens in the National Hockey Association
    - In 1919, Coutu alongside Joe Hall, Edouard Lalonde, Jack McDonald and manager George Kennedy contracted influenza and were hospitalized. Teammate Joe Hall died during Game 5 and the Stanley Cup finals was cancelled.
    - On November 27th, 1920, Coutu was loaned to the Hamilton Tigers by the Montreal Canadiens as part of trade of Jack McDonald, Harry Mummery and Dave Ritchie for Jack Coughlin, Goldie Prodgers and Joe Matte
    - On January 12nd 1924,Coutu missed seven games due to a broken wrist suffered in a game against the Toronto St. Patricks
    - On January 19th 1926, he was suspended one game and fined 100$ by theNHL for tripping referee Jerry Laflamme against the Ottawa Senators
    - At the end of Game 4 of the 1927 Stanley Cup, Coutu started a bench-clearing brawl, apparently at the request of coach Art Ross, by assaulting referee Jerry Laflamme and tackling referee Billy Bell. As a result, he was expelled from the NHL for life. On October 8th, 1929, the suspension was lifted so that Coutu could play in the minor leagues. He never played in the NHL again, although he was reinstated in 1932–33 at the insistence of Leo Dandurand
    - During the 1933-34 season, Coutu played one game in goal for the Providence Reds in the Canadian American Hockey League, allowing 12 goals
    - Coutu was a longtime Minor Pro Coach and referee after his playing days

    -Several hockey history books, including The Hockey News "Habs Heroes" by Ken Campbell incorrectly attribute his name to a photograph of teammate Louis Berlinguette. He and his family pronounced their name "Koochee", which was sometimes confused with "Couture".

    -Ms. Aird Stuart, the sister of Coutu's wife, Gertrude Aird, was the mother of Mary Morenz and grandmother of Marlene Geoffrion, daughter of Howie Morenz and widow of Bernie Geoffrion.

    -Howie Morenz played with Coutu on the Canadiens.-wikipedia



    In the spring of 1924, the Canadiens made their way back into contention for the Stanley Cup. With Georges Vézina in nets and Couture creating mayhem on the blue line, Montreal was almost unimpeded in their efforts.



    - Bob Duff, historian

    -
    - Ernie Fitzsimmons, historian


    Sites:
    http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=12352
    http://www.sihrhockey.org/member_pla..._id=796&mode=2
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Coutu
    http://theryancokeexperience.wordpre...p-100-habs-48/
    http://www.habsinsideout.com/main/2068
    http://ourhistory.canadiens.com/player/Billy-Couture
    http://www.fanatique.ca/lnh/bert-cor...blie+3457.html



    #8 Rusty Crawford, LW

    Seasons 16
    Era Early 1020's late 1920's
    RS NHA 99 66 32 98 NHL 38 108 18
    PO 2 2 1 3
    Best Season
    HHOF -1962
    Stanley Cup 2
    Role Two way warrior

    #2 Red Dutton, D
    Seasons 10
    Era Mid 20's -Mid 30's
    RS:449 29 67 96 43
    PO 18 1 0 1 33
    World War I Vet


    #4 Dave Ellett

    Joe Pelletier
    Seasons:16
    Era:Mid 1980's early 2000's
    RS 1129 153 415 568 197
    PO 116 11 46 57 19
    Best Season 1987-88 - 68 13 45 58
    All-Star Games 1989 1992
    10 seasons 30+ Points
    9 Seasons 40+ Points
    3 Seasons 50+ Points
    Ranked 73rd all time leaf
    Role: Offensive defenceman



    #8 Ron Ellis, RW

    Seasons 16
    Era mid 60's early 1980's
    RS 1034 332 308 640 207
    PO 70 18 8 26 20
    Lost 2 seasons due to early retirement
    Eleven 20+ Goal Seasons
    Two 30 + Goal Seasons
    Best Season 1974–75 79 32 29 61 25\
    * 1966–67 - Stanley Cup Champion
    * 1963–64 - NHL All-Star Game
    * 1964–65 - NHL All-Star Game
    * 1967–68 - NHL All-Star Game
    * 1969–70 - NHL All-Star Game
    * [(1972)] Team Canada
    runner-up to Roger Crozier as the rookie-of-the-year.
    Second All-Star Team (1964)
    Role 2 way player /sniper

    #4 Ron Greschner, D
    http://rangers.nhl.com/club/atrplayer.htm?id=8447409
    THE TOP 100 RANGERS OF ALL TIME BookRuss Cohen
    RANGERS CAPTAIN
    Oct. 9, 1986 to Dec. 3, 1987
    MAJOR NHL AWARDS/ACHIEVEMENTS WITH RANGERS
    NHL All-Star Game — 1980
    RANGERS TEAM AWARDS
    Players` Player Award — 1977-78 (co-winner)
    Rangers Good Guy Award — 1985-86
    "Crumb Bum" Award (Community Service) — 1984-85
    INTERNATIONAL TOURNAMENTS WHILE WITH RANGERS
    1979 Challenge Cup — NHL All-Stars vs. USSR (reserve, did not play)
    RANGERS TEAM LEADER
    Most assists — 1977-78, 1980-81
    Most playoff assists — 1980
    Seasons 16
    Era Mid-1970's -early 1990's
    RS 982 179 431 610 80 1,226
    PO 84 17 32 49
    Best Season 1977-78 NYR 78 24 48 72
    20 Goal Seasons -4
    Stanley Cup Appearances 1
    Role: Franchise Defenceman

    -GBC

    :leafs select

    #1 Reggie M. Lemelin


    legends -Joe Pelletier
    Seasons 16
    Era Late 70'S Mid 90'S
    RS 507 236 162 63 .884 3.46 12
    PO 59 23 25 .881 3.58 2
    Best Season 1984-85 56 30 12 10 .888 3.46 1
    All-Star Games 1989
    William M. Jennings Trophy 1989-90
    Shutouts -5 top 10's
    Goals Against Average 4 top 10's
    Wins 4 top 10's
    Save Percentage 3 top 10's
    20 Win Seasons 5
    30 Win Seasons 2
    Role Back Up Goalie/ Team Glue



    #7 Ted Lindsay,LW
    http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=755276

    Seasons 17
    Era 1Mid 1940's to mid 1960's
    RS 1068 379 472 851 1808
    PO 133 47 49 96 194
    NHL 1st All-Star Team 9 Times
    All Star Games 10
    Top 10 Goals 1946-47 (6)1947-48 (1)1948-49 (2)49-50 (9) 1950-51(6) 1951-52 (3)1952-53 (2)1953-54 (5)55-56 (6) 56-57(6)
    All Time Goal Leaders NHL Career (97) 379
    Top 10 Points 1947-48 NHL (9)1948-49 (3) 1949-50 (1)1950-51 (7)
    1951-52 (2)1952-53 (2)1953-54 (3)1956-57 (2)
    Stanley Cup 4
    HOF 1970
    Top 100 The hockey News (Late 1990's)21
    Role Leader /Stud Forward



    #27 Scott Niedermayer, D

    Era Early 1990's - till early 2010's
    Seasons:18
    Stanley Cup 4
    HOF not yet
    22nd all time scoring d-man with 784 pts
    All Star Games 1998,2001, 2004, 2008, 2009
    All-Rookie Team (1st)1992-93
    All-Star Team (2nd)1997-98
    1ST All-Star Team 2003-04 2005-06 2006-07
    James Norris Memorial Trophy 2003-04
    Conn Smythe Trophy 2006-07
    RS 1263 172 568 740 245 167 784
    PO 202 25 73 98 20 155
    Role: All round Franchise dman



    #3 Dion Phaneuf, D
    Seasons 6
    Era-Mid 2000's -Present
    RS 466 85 183 268 642 + 15
    PO 25 5 7 12 2
    Best Season 2007-08 82 17 43 60 182 12
    Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    NHL All-Rookie Team (2006)
    NHL First All-Star Team (2008)
    Played in NHL All-Star Game (2007, 2008)
    Role Franchise defenceman



    #10 Joe Primeau,C
    legends
    pensionplanpuppets

    Joe Pelletier

    Top 100 Leafs-Mike Leonetti

    Seasons 9
    Era mid 20's mid 30's
    Best Season 1931-32 46 13 37 50
    Adjusted stats 310 114 498 612
    Top 10 Assist- 5 times
    Top 10 Assists Per Game 7 times
    Top 10 Points
    1930-31 (6)1931-32 (2) 1933-34 (2)
    Comparable player: Doug Gilmour
    Lady Byng Memorial Trophy (1932)
    Second All-Star Team Centre (1934)
    RS 310 66 177 243 105
    PO 38 5 18 23 12
    Stanley Cups 1
    HOF 1963
    Top 100 Leafs of all Time book 19
    Top 100 The hockey News (Late 1990's) 92nd
    Note: lead the leaf in assist for 5 straight seasons a record that stood till mats sundin did the same thing for the buds for 7 campaigns straight.
    Role: Magician 1st line playmaker

    http://www.hockey-reference.com/

    #44 Stephane Richer,RW-

    He had all the offensive tools. He possessed excellent skating ability, Richer refused to be intimidated,utilizing all of his size and strength to find scoring lanes so he could unload his cannon-like shot with the lightning quick release were all harmonized under one helmet. -legends


    Seasons: 18
    Era: mid 1980's early 2000's
    RS:1054 421 398 819 339 76
    PO:134 53 45 98 41 2
    Best Season: 1989-90 75 51 40 91
    All-Star Games 1990
    Top 10 in Goals 1987-88 NHL 50 (6)-1989-90 NHL 51 (7)
    Career Overall Goals NHL 421 (72 All Time)
    Game-Winning Goals 1987-88 11 (1) 1989-90 8 (6) 1993-94 9 (4)
    1994-95 5 (7)
    Career Game-Winning Goals 72 (35 All Time)
    Stanley Cups 2
    Role: Sniper/ 2 way forward


    -#12 Eric Staal,C
    Seasons 9
    Era Early 200's -present
    RS 547 222 269 491 14 84
    PO 43 19 24 43 -3 10
    Top 10 Goals Goals2005-06 45 (8) 2008-09 40 (5
    Best Season:2005-06 Carolina 82 45 55 100
    All-Star Games-2007 2008 2009& 2011
    NHL 2nd All-Star Team 2005-06
    Stanley Cup's 1
    Captain Carolina Present
    Role -2 way power forward


    #11 Jordan Staal,C
    Seasons 5
    Era Mid 2000'S PRESENT
    RS 369 95 103 198 42 13
    PO 60 16 8 24 -14
    2008-09 Stanley Cup
    2006-07 NHL - All-Rookie Team
    2006-07 Played in the NHL YoungStars Game
    Top Defensive player overall for the last few seasons


    #32 Steve Thomas RW
    RS: 1235 421 512 933
    PO: 174 54 53 107
    Era: Mid 80's Mid 2000's
    Seasons 20
    Best Season 1992–93 New York Islanders 79 37 50 87
    Stanley Cup Finals 1
    60 Points+ Seasons -8
    20 Goal Seasons + 10
    30 Goal Seasons+ 5
    40 Goal Seasons 2
    Game winning Goals 23rd all time with 78
    Overtime Goals 12th all time with 10
    Playoff Shots on Goal All Time 20th with 444
    70 career game winning goals, ranking him among the all time best of ll time
    All Time Points - 85th with 933
    All Time Goals- 68th with 421
    Highest All Time Scoring player from England
    Toronto Maple Leafs Top 100 Book Ranked 64th
    Role: Sniper/Clutch Player


    #7 Gary Unger,C
    Played in NHL All-Star Game (1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978)
    Top 10 Goals 1969-70 NHL 42 (2) 1972-73 NHL 41 (6)
    Career NHL 413 76 all time highest total
    RS 1105 413 391 804 131 1075
    PO 52 12 18 30 12
    Seasons of 20 or more goals 11
    30 goal seasons-7
    40 goal seasons-2
    Best Season -75-76 80 39 44 83
    All time Points 137th -804 points
    Alll time Goals -77th 413
    Retired as the 31st all tiem points leader with 804 points
    Game-Winning Goals -Career NHL 54 (85)
    Role: 2 way center /Iron Man


    #26 Thomas Vanek RW

    Seasons 6
    Era Present
    RS 465 200 180 379 286 +31
    PO 29 10 5 15 18
    Best Season 2006-07 82 43 41 84 40 47
    Goals 2006-07 43 (5) 2008-09 40 (5)
    2006-07 NHL All-Star Team (2nd)
    NHL All Star 2009
    Power Play Goals2007-08 19 (2) 2008-09 20 (1)
    Game-Winning Goals2007-08 9 (3) 2009-10 6 (10)
    NHL best +47, earning the NHL Plus/Minus Award 05-06
    Role 2 way player /sniper /speedster


    # 30 Cam Ward,G
    RS 342 173 125 32 .909 2.75 15
    PO 41 23 18 4 2.38 .917
    Seasons 6
    Era mid 2000's -Present
    Best Season 2008–09 68 39 23 5 6 2.44 .916
    Stanley Cups 1
    2007 World Championships (gold medal)
    2008 World Championships (silver medal)
    All-Rookie Team (2005)
    Conn Smythe Trophy (2006)
    30 win seasons-4
    Top 10 Wins 2007-08 37 (4) 08-09 39 (3) 10-11 35 (3)
    2011 All Star Team
    Role: Relief Starting Franchise Goalie


    I'll have time to write bios on the 4 players left on saturday.
    #8 Cooney Weiland, C
    Seasons 10
    Era lat 20's -late 1930's
    RS 509 173 160 333 147
    PO 45 12 10 22 12
    Adjusted stats 509 288 393 681 264
    1934-35 NHL NHL All-Star Team (2nd)
    Best Seasons 1929–30 44 43 30 73 27
    Top 10 points -2 times
    Top 10 goals- 2 times
    Art Ross Trophy (1930)
    First All-Star Team Coach (1941)
    Lester Patrick Trophy (1972)
    Second All-Star Team Centre (1935)
    Stanley Cups 2

    #1 Gump Worsley, G
    Seasons:21
    Era:Early 50's mid 1970's
    RS:861 335 352 150 43 2.88
    PO:70 40 26 5 2.78
    Career Games 861 (10 All Time)
    Career NHL Wins 335 (17th All Time )
    All-Star-1961,1962,1965,1972
    Calder Memorial Trophy-1952-53
    Vezina Trophy-1965-66-1967-68
    NHL All-Star Team (2nd)1965-66
    NHL All-Star Team (1st)1967-68
    Stanley Cups -4
    HOF- 1980
    Role:Franchise Goalie:



    #25 Peter Zezel, C
    Seasons
    Era Mid 1980's late 1990's
    RS 873 219 389 608 39 435
    PO 131 25 39 64 4 83
    Best Season 1989-90 73 25 47 72
    Played in over 1000 NHL games
    Holds flyers record for assists by a rookie
    Went to the Cup finals with the flyers twice
    Five time 20+ goal scorer
    On Jan16, 1991 Peter realized a childhood dream and got traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs. He helped lead the leafs to the conference finals twice
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2011
  4. BillyShoe1721

    BillyShoe1721 Terriers

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    He did do a couple bios on some of his most important players, here is his roster with bios:

    Some of those arguments are, well, interesting LL. Not having 5 fingers puts him at a disadvantage? I'm pretty sure he played that way and was just fine. Zubov a #4? Really? It's a weak top pair, but Zubov is much better than a #4, and Moose Johnson much better than a #3. Who will carry the puck on the top 6 lines? How about the highest scoring player in the pre-NHL era, the 2nd best point producer in the 1980s, the 2x Art Ross champion, the 2x Golden Stick winner and 6x World Championships all star, or the guy that was 6x top 10 in goals? I think they'll be okay. :laugh:
     
  5. Leafs Forever

    Leafs Forever Registered User

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    Ok, can't help but respond to this:

    What do you mean by "control the play", exactly? I don't see why Cournoyer can't carry the puck if he wants to go and let his not-slow linemates trail behind, or slow himself down somwhat.

    A top-6 line not being good defensively doesn't make it bad; especially considering the offensive dominance here.

    Why does that matter if it didn't stop him from dominating?

    At worse, Johnson is an elite #2. Don't bring up the fingers again; it's a stupid arguement to me, and it didn't stop him from dominating in real life.

    At worse, Zubov is a #3.

    That's because he's a defensive D-man. Why is beukeboom a spare?

    Why does that matter? All that virtually means is Vezina played behind worse teams.
     
  6. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

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    come on now beaukaboom shouldn't even be drafted imo
    was he ever considered a top 5 player in his position in any year that he had played?



    Usually one player carries the puck and on nylads first line he has 2 puck carriers who is to say that they will be bale to adapt to a totally new role.The ATD isn't about guessing! Players need ot be selected carefully to execute a game plan constructed by the coach and gm.


    do you think they could handle my power of lindsay and conacher... not for even a shift!

    #8 Rusty Crawford - #12 Eric Staal - #8 Ron Ellis
    #11 Gordie Roberts-#13 Russell Bowie-#24 Sergei Makarov

    I think that crawford and roberts virtually cancel each other out. 6'4" Eric Staal would over power the diminutive 5'5 amateur play of Russel bowie while 4 time stanley cup winner ron ellis would contain sergie makarov easily!

    Stastny was a decent player playing in the high scoring 80's . The nords never got past the 2nd rnd of the plyoffs even when they were a top 4 team. He certainly isn't the horse to ride


    #77 Ernie Johnson- not a first #56 Sergei Zubov- not a 2nd

    johnson who is also a left winger...and zubov are both offensive minded and in my mind that equals a whole lot of defensive trouble

    #8 Lloyd Cook-#7 Art Duncan

    #8 Lloyd Cook-#7 Art Duncan were risky players who could burn you more then they can help you in a ATD.

    #6 Don Awrey-#23 Jeff Beukeboom

    There are a lot of good players on his team but unfortunately they are for the most part misplaced and miscast which will destroy the teams ability to execute vs Toe Blake lead leafs!
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  7. Leafs Forever

    Leafs Forever Registered User

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    1. There are plenty of ATD defensemen not consider top-5 when they played...Coutu, I am fairly sure, for example.

    2. Defensemen can carry the puck too, and I think on a whole, the top-6 has the kind of skill to do it.

    3. The ATD is largely about "guessing", in a sense, for we have know certainty in how any of our players would actually perform if this fantasy became reality.

    4. Not sure what you mean by Crawford and Robetrs cancelling, but Crawford does not=Roberts.

    5. Bowie isn't that small in the ATD, so to speak; to use unadjusted sizes from an active player to an old player is highly unfair. Bowie, I think, was about average in size for his era. Staal has good strength to take on Bowie...he does not have good defensive skill to do so.

    6. Makarov is an elite 2nd liner...Ellis is a good third line RW, but "easily" is arrogant. Also, usually, it's RW on LW and LW on RW.

    7. Please, stop talking about Ernie Johnson like you know how he plays, because you obviously don't. Ernie Johnson was the best defenseman defensively of his day. Some time in his early career spent at forward doesn't change that.

    8. I find it amusing you critisize Zubov on a top pairing when you've got Dutton on yours, who is a lot worse.
     
  8. Dreakmur

    Dreakmur Registered User

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    He was small for his era, and he would be one of the smaller guys in this ATD, but that doesn't mean he won't be effective. He was one of the most dominant offensive forces in hockey when the game was far more barbaric than it is today, and being small never slowed him down. Why would it now?
     
  9. BillyShoe1721

    BillyShoe1721 Terriers

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    By your logic, 6'7" Derek Boogaard would be the best shutdown forward in the NHL.
     
  10. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

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    all i can say is dutton is a hall of famer and zubov will never get in

    who is better by those standrads?

    Bowie was practically a midget AT 5'5"

    and i think you can make a player stronger and heavier but i dont think an ATD can make them grow taller!

    and bowie was an amateur so he played vs lesser talent no matter what the era. Heck I would pick joe beaton the top player in the british isles for the first 50 yrs from the last century ahead of bowie

    Crawford had 230 career points 15 playoff points and Roberts had 269 and 10 playoff points not much difference if u ask me.

    makarov had 424 134 250 384 career nhl games
    13 Seasons USSR 519 322 388 = 772 points.

    makarov played on a superior team vs weaker teams.

    ron ellis 1034 332 308 640 on a very defensive toronto maple leafs team

    There really isn't much too choose between them. Ellis was a complete player and makarov was flashier and he had some adjustment issues with taking a lesser role when he played in the nhl.


    3. The ATD is largely about "guessing", in a sense, for we have know certainty in how any of our players would actually perform if this fantasy became reality.

    you guess alot..

    2. Defensemen can carry the puck too, and I think on a whole, the top-6 has the kind of skill to do it.

    sound like their is no one else on the ice just his team. What coloured glasses are yah wearing :D

    Toe Blake will prepare his team and they will rise over any challenger
     
  11. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

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    please don't suggest exactly what i am thinking.

    Now disregard what u said and delete the player mentioned by yous in my playoff series.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  12. Leafs Forever

    Leafs Forever Registered User

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    I guess Red Dutton is a better defenseman than Mark Howe too then. /sarcasm

    Do you honestly think HHOF means one player is better than another?

    Bowie's size isn't as bad as it looks considering people were a lot shorter on average during his time.

    Bowie played the best competition there was in hockey and dominated in Gretzky-like fashion. Only difference is that they weren't payed for it.

    Beaton>Bowie is laughable.

    Add some context and the fact that they played in different leagues.

    Did you seriously just say Ellis is anywhere close to Makarov as a player?


    I'm not wearing coloured glasses. I'm criticizing ludicrous hyperbloic arguements.
     
  13. BillyShoe1721

    BillyShoe1721 Terriers

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    Tell me how that's not along the same line of logic as your Staal-Bowie comparison. Bowie was below average in size for his day, and if he were playing today, he would probably adjust to be about 5'10". Was Ron Ellis ever named anything close to an NHL equivalent as being the best player in the world not in the NHL? Let alone twice? Or 6 times the best RW not in the NHL in the world?
     
  14. Dreakmur

    Dreakmur Registered User

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    Bowie's a midget at 5'5, so that make Ted Lindsay a dwarf?
     
  15. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

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    Terrible ted was the most feared player during his hey day in the nhl he could beat you on the score sheet in the corners and with his fists
     
  16. Dreakmur

    Dreakmur Registered User

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    doesn't matter - how can he beat anybody up when he's 5'8"? He's too small to do anything he did when he played . he's a dwarf :sarcasm:


    (see how stupid it looked when you went on about Bowie's size?)
     
  17. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

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    more later
     
  18. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Nalyd never changed his special teams in the roster thread, it seems.

    This version of his team still had Moose Johnson (an excellent defensive defenseman but poor puck handler) fumbling the puck on the point of the PP and the offense-only Cournoyer/Bowie turning every 5 on 4 into more of a 5 on 3.5.
     
  19. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    I think whether a player is on the HHOF means something; especially for players inducted shortly after their careers were over - and not in the gargantuan 1962/1965 classes or by the veteran's committee, when politics seemed to play a bigger role.

    That said, I find Dutton's Hart record more useful in determining his value.
     
  20. Reds4Life

    Reds4Life Registered User

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    Ted Lindsay is NOT 5'8''. He's 5'5'', 6'' at best.
     
  21. Dreakmur

    Dreakmur Registered User

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    He's listed at 5'8" on every source I can find.... but that wasn't the point anyway.

    I was pointing out how stupid it was to look too much into a player's un-adjusted size.
     
  22. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

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    I am 6'1 and i am miles taller then a man who is only 5'10 and a man who is 6'5" is dramatically taller then I am
     
  23. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

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    we shrink when we get old
     
  24. Dreakmur

    Dreakmur Registered User

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    And most guys are miles taller than Ted Lindsay's 5'8"....
     
  25. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

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    lindsay is considered by most to be the 2nd or 3rd best left winger of all time and bowie is what top 200?

    who is miles ahead of who ?
     

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